Ninja Crusaders (NES)

[Webhead123 | 687]

Has anyone ever managed to defeat the impossible final boss of this game?

For an 8-bit ninja game, there are better titles of course, but there are certainly worse ones. It settles into mediocrity. Unfortunately, what prevents it from being what I might otherwise call a "hidden gem" are three BIG problems: a) one-hit deaths, b) hyper-aggressive, respawning enemies and c) when you die, you go back to the beginning of the stage.

Imagine playing Ninja Gaiden where one hit kills you and sends you back to the beginning! It's one of those games where you will never get very far without playing a stage a dozen times and absolutely memorizing the enemy spawn locations. You end up inching forward, so as to let just one enemy on-screen at a time to kill them before you let the next one spawn in. The final stage is the absolute worst about this. If you let more than one enemy on-screen at a time...you're f**ked. Just keep inching forward if you wanna get through it.

But yeah, the crowning lump 'o coal in this smelly stocking is the final boss. His first form actually stupid-easy once you realize his very basic pattern, although it still takes 64 hits with the ranged weapons to put him down. His second form is impossible. Im-f**king-possible. You can't stand in front of him and try to dodge his spear because his forward attack has zero frames of delay. If you see the spear, you've just been hit. Dead. So, what do you do? You try to jump over him and get behind. But guess what? As soon as you start jumping, he turns around and walks in your direction! So you end up landing on him and *BAM*! Dead. Yeah, remember how this game has one-hit deaths? I've even tried abusing the invincibility frames of the transformation power. That can help you avoid a hit here or there...but it's so unreliable because you have to HOLD THE B BUTTON FOR TWO FULL SECONDS to do it! So, you gotta know 2 seconds in advance that you're going to need to tank a hit...and the invincibility frames DON'T SEEM TO WORK AGAINST HIS PROJECTILES ANYWAY! And every time you transform, he summons one of those giant fly-things from the center platform anyway. So if the boss doesn't hit you, the fly-things eventually will.

Seriously, I've been banging my head against the wall that is this a**hole for over an hour and about 50 attempts. What the f**k am I missing? Is there some secret power-up or exploit that I don't know about?

Update: Conquered. This chick is toast!

Edited December 24, 2020 by Webhead123

[mbd39 | 2,030]

I played this on emulator, reached the last stage, and gave up. I remember the game getting hard near the end. This is another one I should give another chance on real hardware someday.

 

[Bearcat-Doug | 5,105]

I've never played this. I guess I should give it a shot.

[Webhead123 | 687]

6 minutes ago, mbd39 said:

I played this on emulator, reached the last stage, and gave up. I remember the game getting hard near the end. This is another one I should give another chance on real hardware someday.

 

I can only imagine that playing on an emulator might make it even worse. Sort of like the later fights in Punch-Out, if you have any amount of input lag, you're going to suffer. Even on original hardware, this beast is relentless in the last couple of stages.

[DoctorEncore | 3,691]

Sounds relaxing...

[Bearcat-Doug | 5,105]

@nerdynebraskan beat it for the NES completions thread. Maybe he can weigh in with some tips.

[DoctorEncore | 3,691]

What do the YouTubers do? Or are you trying to grind it out without a guide?

[Webhead123 | 687]

3 minutes ago, DoctorEncore said:

What do the YouTubers do? Or are you trying to grind it out without a guide?

I was originally trying to do it legit on my own moxie...but I've reached the point where I kind of no longer care. I just wanna put this dirtbag in the ground. I'll probably just search up some playthroughs and see what I'm doing wrong.

[Dr. Morbis | 2,092]

I don't know if you'd call this cheesing the game, but the trick is to do couch co-op with a buddy and play a two-player simultaneous game.  The difficulty goes down about 99% because when one player dies in a 2p game, it does not reset the level, it just respawns him right where you are.

So you need to get to the final boss with as many men in reserve as possible for both players, and make sure that whoever has the fewest men in reserve is more conservative while the other dude is aggressive so that you both lose men evenly until either the boss falls or you're both dead.  This is the way I beat the game many years ago, and I don't know if I have it in me to ever return to this game to try it out one player.

Edited December 24, 2020 by Dr. Morbis

[Webhead123 | 687]

11 minutes ago, Dr. Morbis said:

I don't know if you'd call this cheesing the game, but the trick is to do couch co-op with a buddy and play a two-player simultaneous game.  The difficulty goes down about 99% because when one player dies in a 2p game, it does not reset the level, it just respawns him right where you are.

So you need to get to the final boss with as many men in reserve as possible for both players, and make sure that whoever has the fewest men in reserve is more conservative while the other dude is aggressive so that you both lose men evenly until either the boss falls or you're both dead.  This is the way I beat the game many years ago, and I don't know if I have it in me to ever return to this game to try it out one player.

I thought about this. Sadly, none of my potential co-op partners would last more than a few seconds in a game like this.

Good news, though! I finally managed to do it! It's certainly not easy but if you have the rhythm of his attacks down, you can duck the first hit, jump the second and then sort of force the boss toward the far wall so that when he shoots his projectile spread, you have room enough to run back the other way and dodge them.

Well, I can put this one to bed now. With just a slight tweak to the difficulty (why not give the player 3 hits instead of just 1?), this could be a pretty decent platformer worth revisiting on occasion. The idea of the different weapon transformations is pretty novel for an NES game and the graphics are serviceable. The music is mediocre-to-irritating but the control is fairly tight and it would be just about the right length if you weren't forced to replay some of the later stages so many times because of deaths. What could have been a reasonably good game is a bit too punishing to really be anything but a curiosity.

[phart010 | 1,708]

10:40

 

[fox | 1,673]

If Ninja Gaiden is an A tier, and Shadow of the Ninja is a B tier, Ninja Crusaders is a C tier.  Not good, not bad, just kind of there.  I do have a bit of nostalgia for it though.

[MagusSmurf | 577]

By coincidence I beat this game less than 24 hours ago. It kills you in one hit because the game is very short (see that let’s play posted in this topic) and most of the enemies either only take a hit or two as well or are slow and clumsy. Unless you’re on a boss there’s no penalty for death or Game Over whatsoever so you can just try again and you’ll still only be about a minute from the end of the level. The harder sections of the game are very memorization heavy without feeling all that special so yeah probably not great overall but it’s fun and not super hard since it’s so forgiving and doesn’t require exceptional execution. Though for a game where you theoretically have four weapons of different strengths and weaknesses to choose from, the staff and sword are pretty much absent from the second half of the game. Think I’d give it a 6.5/10 or so. The second loop gives enemies double health and I’m curious to see how that works out as well as to see how much easier this game goes when you already know what you’re doing; will try before too long.

The second form of the final boss’s attack pattern is asymmetrical; he responds differently depending on whether you’re on his left side or right. If on the right you can just jump over him to get to his left but it’s not that simple from his other side. If you’re on the left, you have to duck-then-jump his high-then-low strikes, he’ll back off slightly then come at you again, and after this second set of high-then-low strikes, he’ll prepare his projectile spread but he stops moving while doing this, so you can jump over him while jumping his second low strike, run to the other side’s edge, and duck his projectiles. A bit obnoxious to figure out but not that bad once you do. Not the first boss in the game that let you run around both sides but attacked asymmetrically; 4-2’s boss had that gimmick too. I think 3-2’s boss was also trying to teach me how to handle this kind of boss but the game allowed you to instead cheese that one really easily with the tiger transformation so I didn’t learn.

[Webhead123 | 687]

1 hour ago, MagusSmurf said:

...but the game allowed you to instead cheese that one really easily with the tiger transformation so I didn’t learn.

Because I don't have and didn't look up the manual before I fired the game up, I actually didn't even know about the transformations until the second-to-last stage. I was just mashing the buttons out of frustration when I discovered it. Yeah, that definitely changes up the game and gives more value to the weapon choices, although they aren't quite as impactful as they first seem. They feel like more of an afterthought than something that was fully incorporated into the game.

Edited December 25, 2020 by Webhead123

[Sumez | 2,995]

Glad to see people talking about this game. It's one of my favourites on the NES, and probably a true hidden gem in the sense that every time I do see people giving it any attention, it's often quickly dismissed as awkward, cheap and "too hard".

I think all of those takes is a little telling of a lack of effort, because even though Ninja Gaiden-style gameplay without the life bar to soak up mistakes does sound pretty brutal, the game is overall a lot easier than any of the NG titles.
But on the other hand I love how it allows you to create your own challenge by picking stronger weapons with the caveat of a much shorter range. I consider beating the game using only the sword the "true" clear of the game, but without such a restriction I managed to "1 credit clear" the game on my second try.

I used the staff weapon for most of the game, which strikes a really good balance between reach and damage, but ended up switching to an even longer range weapon (kusarigama maybe?) for the final part of the final stage because that place gets really dangerous once you allow yourself to get into point blank range. I really wouldn't use that anywhere else though.
Like you, @Webhead123, I never made use of any of the transformations. I think they are a fun idea, but I agree they feel like an afterthought, and a way to just cheese through segments, rather than the real core of the game.

Unfortunately I don't remember how I beat the final boss. I do remember that it left me completely stumped on my first encounter, but I also recall a really easy way to deal with him that made the fight a complete non-issue, although it did require some patience. I wish I recorded a video of it, maybe I should return to the game some time soon.

I wouldn't rely on "longplay" videos on YouTube for any kind of video game strategy. Those people usually just mash through a game, banging their head at the wall and reloading quicksaves until something works. So a lot of the time their strategy is "get lucky". Not viable.
EDIT: Ok, I think that longplay video is actually the correct strategy, somewhat.

 

Anyone who thinks this is a "C tier" game, "mediocre", or "6.5/10" need to give it a second try with a more open mindset. The game is designed with the one-hit kills in mind, and it's what makes the game so great. Every mistake is punished. Don't rely on ranged weapons, get the strong short-range ones and get up in the face of your enemeis before they get to attack you.
The music is horrendeous, but aside from that it's a fantastic little gem.

Edited December 25, 2020 by Sumez

[T-Pac | 7,590]

Congrats on the clear @Webhead123!

I was playing Ninja Crusaders fairly recently, too. I think I made it about halfway through before I put down the controller.

I'm a big fan of the short levels paired with the low-penalty unlimited continue system so that you can keep trying a stage until you find a strategy that works for you.

I didn't know about the transformations either - anyone care to enlighten me on what they do and how to pull them off?

-CasualCart

[Webhead123 | 687]

14 hours ago, CasualCart said:

Congrats on the clear @Webhead123!

...I didn't know about the transformations either - anyone care to enlighten me on what they do and how to pull them off?

Thanks! Now that I've fought my way through it, I will say that I'm glad that I did give it my patience. It isn't a terrible game at all...it just requires a certain kind of mindset and a little time to understand what the game is asking of you. It's not something that I'll probably be compelled to revisit all that often and there are more fun and polished ninja games on the NES but for what it is, it is worth playing.

The "transformations" are triggered by holding the "B" Button for a couple seconds, at which point, your ninja will change into a different animal form depending on which weapon you have equipped. While in animal-form, holding the button again will change you back into standard ninja form. This is one complaint I have that hampers the mechanic. Why couldn't they just let you toggle forms with the Select Button? Just a tap of the select button would make using the transformations so much more reliable. The B Button is the same button you use to attack. So, if you're planning to transform, you need to either do it when no enemies are on screen, or risk not being able to attack for 2 seconds while you hold the button down. As far as I know, the transformations are unlimited but it does take a few seconds to pull off and some forms control a bit differently, so you just need to be careful when and where you use them.

Edited December 26, 2020 by Webhead123

[Sumez | 2,995]

I'm guessing the idea is that you should only be able to trigger a transformation at a safe location rather than using it as a desparation move.

That doesn't make sense though, because transformations are already so overpowered that you're better off not using them if you want to enjoy the game.

[CMR | 522]

I like this game, but I've never really played it for long.  Also, Wrath of the Black Manta is the best NES ninja game.

[Webhead123 | 687]

47 minutes ago, CMR said:

Also, Wrath of the Black Manta is the best NES ninja game.

Honestly, Black Manta is a much better game than some might give it credit for based on first-impressions. I know that was my take-away. The first time I booted it up I though, "Oh. This is going to be a bad Ninja Gaiden rip off". But after just a couple minutes of letting the game draw me in, I changed my tune. And the first time you encounter a boss! I was honestly taken by surprise. Totally Rad does the same thing, which is just cool.

[Dr. Morbis | 2,092]

2 hours ago, CMR said:

Also, Wrath of the Black Manta is the best NES ninja game.

Heh, maybe the best NES ninja game that doesn't have  the word "Gaiden" in the title.  At first it looks like it's going to be some poorly designed schlock just trying to cash in on the whole Ninja fad, but it slowly draws you in, culminating with the appearance of the first boss, as stated, that makes you start to wonder what else the game has to offer.  Working on a No-Death Run of Wrath was really fun, with my only complaint being the bizarre and unnecessary jumbling of the level order from the original japanese version...

[Sumez | 2,995]

I've only played the original Japanese version of Black Manta and... is it really a good game?

I don't see the similarities to Ninja Gaiden at all. Shinobi, maybe, or maybe even The Ninja Warriors. But the game is just boring and repetitive - maybe I'm missing something and need to replay it.

As for great Ninja games without "Gaiden" in the title, there are some pretty great ones on NES.
Shadow of the Ninja is an obvious contender, but I actually prefer Ninja Crusaders to that, and Nazo No Murasamejou is probably the best first party Nintendo game to never be localized back in the day. I'd also nominate Kid Niki, Ninja Kun 2, Legend of Kage, the Ninja Jajamaru games, and Demon Sword, and of course TMNT has to count as a ninja game, right?

I'd want to throw Zen Intergalactic Ninja in there as well, but I just can't find any enjoyment in that game >_> 

What about Kickmaster? Does that count as a ninja game?

 

Edited December 27, 2020 by Sumez

[CMR | 522]

Don't forget about Little Ninja Brothers which is set in china and is really as sequel to Kung Fu Heroes.

[Webhead123 | 687]

31 minutes ago, CMR said:

Don't forget about Little Ninja Brothers which is set in china and is really as sequel to Kung Fu Heroes.

I was just playing a bit of that earlier today, actually. It's a pretty decent game...except that I find the hit boxes in melee combat against most enemies to be really difficult to figure out and adjust to. Timing your hits against certain enemies just seems like a crapshoot. I recall feeling similarly about Kung Fu Heroes but it's been a long time since I've played that one.

Edited December 28, 2020 by Webhead123

[MagusSmurf | 577]

Beat this again and then did the second loop yesterday.

Having used mostly the staff this time, I'm assuming part of the reason there are no pickups for it in the latter stages of the game is they didn't necessarily want people cheesing the later bosses with it; it makes most bosses go down in three hits. The power boost the staff grants over the long-ranged weapons is so devastating to normal enemies that most of the second loop played about identically to the first despite enemies being twice as durable. Only took about an hour to go from the beginning of the second loop to the final stage, though I did abuse flight at some points. Couldn't manage to cheese the boss of 5-1 with the staff this time so had to actually fight him with the chain. The final stage on the second loop, though is...quite something and took longer than the rest of the loop put together. Those flying enemies and the ones that drop from the ceiling are ridiculous when you have to hit them twice for them to die. Ended up using the tiger transformation because it could still score a OHKO on them and its jumping height and speed helped too.

Upon beating the second loop, they forego the ending text this time and send you back to the 1st stage again for a 3rd loop, and this time the enemies can take...three times as much damage? Uh. No thanks.

I maintain my 6.5. I don't consider that a bad score, the game's above average for the NES and was reasonably fun but I didn't find it too special overall. I do think it starts abusing fast enemies coming right at you and your killed-in-one-hit ninja self starting around 4-2 or so. Though with infinite continues, you can just make a plan for it and do better next time, so not too big a deal. Would agree that at least in the first loop the game is only in the "kinda sorta hard" range.