SNES library vs. GBA library

[Tanooki | 4,952]

On 10/16/2020 at 6:34 PM, Reed Rothchild said:

The problem is most people have played just the same few games.  So you end up with Pokemon...uh White (or whatever) at #1, and Henry Hatsworth is outside the top 200.  Because most people grew up with one game, and have never heard of the other

I don't know how you solve for that without having a bunch of people who have played through hundreds of games.

Yup that's the issue.  I've played hundreds due to interest, me being more about handheld gaming, and having also been on a review team for the gaming media at the time doing handheld releases for GBA and earlier DS stuff.  I could likely line out a list of 200 where the usual go-to fanboy stuff would only get fair listing if it deserved it, even cutting out some/most sequels just to highlight one in the name of the franchise.  IT would take time, but it wouldn't be impossible.  And henry there needs a spot in that 200.  Pokemon White/Black would not be considered, probably just throw SoulSilver/HeartGold on there as they're they most loved just to have a pokemon on the list.  Just like with say Castlevania I'd just put the either the first or third one, not all 3, and so on.  I think the unique titles even if some are inspired or even could be ports, if done mightily well, would deserve a spot.

 

Take phart's list for instance, and those ports from whatever system, they'd stay, a few, just not padding it out with 3-6 sequels.  Advance Wars, Donkey Kong Country, Final Fantasy IV, Final Fight One, Minish Cap, Magical Quest, Megaman Battle Network1, Summon Night, etc.  Just choose one if it's multiples, or whatever, if they're that good, they deserve it, but not the entire line.  And if one is substantially better assembled say like Doom 2 vs #1, I'd go with that on a list.

 

 

Also Metal Slug Advance isn't a port or conversion phart, that's a new game, as was Rayman 3.    Depending on feelings, at the time, since no one but a rare few who could outside Japan read it, or got a fan translation, could play Phantasia so that I'd let slide.  Oh and Ninja Cop = Ninja Five 0.  I wouldn't count double packs either, just two of the other games on one cart, it's pad.

[phart010 | 1,708]

6 hours ago, Tanooki said:

Also Metal Slug Advance isn't a port or conversion phart, that's a new game, as was Rayman 3.    Depending on feelings, at the time, since no one but a rare few who could outside Japan read it, or got a fan translation, could play Phantasia so that I'd let slide.  Oh and Ninja Cop = Ninja Five 0.  I wouldn't count double packs either, just two of the other games on one cart, it's pad.

Oops. My list doesn’t actually highlight the ports, I just did that on the fly for this post. Guess I need to get to work and PLAY all of my games

[Estil | 1,265]

7 hours ago, Tanooki said:

Take phart's list for instance, and those ports from whatever system, they'd stay, a few, just not padding it out with 3-6 sequels.  Advance Wars, Donkey Kong Country, Final Fantasy IV, Final Fight One, Minish Cap, Magical Quest, Megaman Battle Network1, Summon Night, etc.  Just choose one if it's multiples, or whatever, if they're that good, they deserve it, but not the entire line.  And if one is substantially better assembled say like Doom 2 vs #1, I'd go with that on a list.

If you mean the re-release ones (FF, DKC, SMB, etc), no sir, you do one, you do 'em all.  And we only got one Zelda game on the GBA (a real one; the remake doesn't count) and what was so wrong with Battle Network?  We got six NES MegaMen and six MegaMan X's on the SNES/PS1 so why not six BN's?  Plus three Star Forces for the DS just for good measure.

[Makar | 1,946]

8 hours ago, Tanooki said:

Yup that's the issue.  I've played hundreds due to interest, me being more about handheld gaming, and having also been on a review team for the gaming media at the time doing handheld releases for GBA and earlier DS stuff.  I could likely line out a list of 200 where the usual go-to fanboy stuff would only get fair listing if it deserved it, even cutting out some/most sequels just to highlight one in the name of the franchise.  IT would take time, but it wouldn't be impossible.  And henry there needs a spot in that 200.  Pokemon White/Black would not be considered, probably just throw SoulSilver/HeartGold on there as they're they most loved just to have a pokemon on the list.  Just like with say Castlevania I'd just put the either the first or third one, not all 3, and so on.  I think the unique titles even if some are inspired or even could be ports, if done mightily well, would deserve a spot.

 

Take phart's list for instance, and those ports from whatever system, they'd stay, a few, just not padding it out with 3-6 sequels.  Advance Wars, Donkey Kong Country, Final Fantasy IV, Final Fight One, Minish Cap, Magical Quest, Megaman Battle Network1, Summon Night, etc.  Just choose one if it's multiples, or whatever, if they're that good, they deserve it, but not the entire line.  And if one is substantially better assembled say like Doom 2 vs #1, I'd go with that on a list.

 

 

Also Metal Slug Advance isn't a port or conversion phart, that's a new game, as was Rayman 3.    Depending on feelings, at the time, since no one but a rare few who could outside Japan read it, or got a fan translation, could play Phantasia so that I'd let slide.  Oh and Ninja Cop = Ninja Five 0.  I wouldn't count double packs either, just two of the other games on one cart, it's pad.

I agree with some of this, but sequels absolutely should be counted separately. Pokemon black and white would be in the top 50 DS games. But I agree that you shouldn't count both white and black since the only real difference is each version had a couple version exclusive Pokemon. 

Mega man battle network 1-6 are all different games. Different stories, different chips, bosses, etc. They should all be counted separately. However mmbn3 white and blue should not be counted separately. They're basically like Pokemon red and blue. Just super minor differences with chips. 

Oh, and ninja 5-0 is not a good game. Played it for about an hour. Nothing notable about it other than it being rare. Perhaps it is top 200 though based on how bad the rest of the library is. 

Edited October 18, 2020 by Makar

[Reed Rothchild | 9,585]

Tanooki does raise a good point (which I also touched on in my rankings recently).

The typical top games lists dedupe the franchises in some sense.  Like, you may see Tecmo Super Bowl, but not the sequels.  

I understand why people do that, as it makes the list more varied and fun.  But then you have top games that aren't in your top games list.

[Makar | 1,946]

48 minutes ago, Reed Rothchild said:

Tanooki does raise a good point (which I also touched on in my rankings recently).

The typical top games lists dedupe the franchises in some sense.  Like, you may see Tecmo Super Bowl, but not the sequels.  

I understand why people do that, as it makes the list more varied and fun.  But then you have top games that aren't in your top games list.

I could see why that would make sense for certain franchises. Especially stuff like Madden where the game doesn't differ much at all each year. Just pick the last one on the system and call it a day. This is how I feel about Yu-Gi-Oh games too. Just pick the last one on the system that had the most up to date cards. But for other franchises this doesn't make sense. Take fire emblem on the 3DS for example. All those sequels should be separate entities on a top 200 list. They're all pretty different games. 

[cartman | 195]

GBA does seem to be a "portstation" just relatively speaking but i think a lot of it also has to do with the fact that the library isn't as explored as NES or SNES. Someone that has played every GBA game would probably drop a couple 100 names that are not SNES ports and argue that it's a great system but the thing is most people have not delved into GBA deeply. I think.

Edited October 18, 2020 by cartman

[Tanooki | 4,952]

5 hours ago, cartman said:

GBA does seem to be a "portstation" just relatively speaking but i think a lot of it also has to do with the fact that the library isn't as explored as NES or SNES. Someone that has played every GBA game would probably drop a couple 100 names that are not SNES ports and argue that it's a great system but the thing is most people have not delved into GBA deeply. I think.

Exactly, and I could round out a list of stuff worth playing that isn't just ports, but it would also have some that are but kind of unexpected stuff, not just past Nintendo system carry overs.  Wing Commander Prophecy, Klonoa, Asterix and Obelix XXL, V-Rally 3, stuff like that.

 

Look I get the annoyance at my comment about not wanting on a list to place multiple games from the same franchise.  Sure in some cases you get widely different, then others are anything but or worse, slight mods to sell 2 games like Pokemon setup ripoffs.  I was just thinking from the integrity of wanting more variety on the list people would typically overlook.

 

I also agree, Ninja Five 0 is kind of crappy, overhyped to hell and back and the fits that sadly.  Game has some control and design annoyances, just not very fun at places, boring in others.

[fox | 1,673]

Wonder how these stack up to the top 100 SNES games

[Sumez | 2,994]

18 hours ago, Makar said:

Oh, and ninja 5-0 is not a good game. Played it for about an hour. Nothing notable about it other than it being rare. Perhaps it is top 200 though based on how bad the rest of the library is. 

Ninja Five-O is a crazy good game.  
It's notable not just for being rare, it's a fun mix of shinobi, elevator action returns and bionic commando. It does take a while to click though, so I can see why you wouldn't get a good impression from the first hour.

Edited October 19, 2020 by Sumez

[Sumez | 2,994]

2 hours ago, fox said:

Wonder how these stack up to the top 100 SNES games

I'd be more interested in @Tanooki's top 100
I've seen some videos from that guy before, and he's the kind of YouTube guy who just paraphrases a bunch of stuff that he's read on wikipedia and other places on the internet, trying to present it like his own insight. On the occasions where he's talking about games that you might have some history with of your own, it quickly gets kinda embarassing.

I just skipped through that video, and it's precisely as superficial as I'd have thought, unfortunately. You can easily tell he hasn't even played most of the games.  

The issue with a lot of people who're aggregating larger lists of games is that they don't actually have a lot of experience with the games they put on there outside of looking at them quickly and thinking they look fun. Especially on GBA it's very easy to see a lot of games that look like Metal Slug, and have decent enough graphics, so you'll immediately just group them into that same category. But the fact is that making a game like Metal Slug and also making it fun to play is incredibly hard. Alien Hominid should serve as pretty solid proof of that XD

Edited October 19, 2020 by Sumez

[Makar | 1,946]

2 hours ago, Sumez said:

Ninja Five-O is a crazy good game.  
It's notable not just for being rare, it's a fun mix of shinobi, elevator action returns and bionic commando. It does take a while to click though, so I can see why you wouldn't get a good impression from the first hour.

To each their own lol. I was so bored with it years ago that I sold it. This is what makes games and music and movies so interesting. What's entertaining to one is boring to another. 

[cartman | 195]

5 hours ago, Tanooki said:

Exactly, and I could round out a list of stuff worth playing that isn't just ports, but it would also have some that are but kind of unexpected stuff, not just past Nintendo system carry overs.  Wing Commander Prophecy, Klonoa, Asterix and Obelix XXL, V-Rally 3, stuff like that.

 

Look I get the annoyance at my comment about not wanting on a list to place multiple games from the same franchise.  Sure in some cases you get widely different, then others are anything but or worse, slight mods to sell 2 games like Pokemon setup ripoffs.  I was just thinking from the integrity of wanting more variety on the list people would typically overlook.

 

I also agree, Ninja Five 0 is kind of crappy, overhyped to hell and back and the fits that sadly.  Game has some control and design annoyances, just not very fun at places, boring in others.

Yeah i mean i read there are 1510 games released for GBA so i could imagine someone would say there's a ton of good games. About sequels and such, i think they count. They are still new games, if they're fun they're fun and valid just as much as a game from a totally different series, variation is not disqualifier. There are 3 Castlevania games on there and i had fun with all so why would i have wanted them to just release 1? Ninja Five-O i don't know much about but i've heard good things.

[Reed Rothchild | 9,585]

9 hours ago, Sumez said:

I'd be more interested in @Tanooki's top 100
I've seen some videos from that guy before, and he's the kind of YouTube guy who just paraphrases a bunch of stuff that he's read on wikipedia and other places on the internet, trying to present it like his own insight. On the occasions where he's talking about games that you might have some history with of your own, it quickly gets kinda embarassing.

I just skipped through that video, and it's precisely as superficial as I'd have thought, unfortunately. You can easily tell he hasn't even played most of the games.  

I think you can apply that statement to about 99% of youtubers

[Sumez | 2,994]

Yeah, it's a pretty sorry state of affairs. I'm sure there's great content out there, but it's drowning.  And I'm not good at digging these things up.

[Strange | 1,701]

I’m really happy with the depth of discussion this thread received. I wonder if we couldn’t get a similar analysis about DS games in a future thread?

[Reed Rothchild | 9,585]

2 minutes ago, The Strangest said:

I’m really happy with the depth of discussion this thread received. I wonder if we couldn’t get a similar analysis about DS games in a future thread?

DS vs 3DS vs GBA vs SNES vs NES vs PS1 vs PS2 vs PS4 vs Switch.  Go.

[Strange | 1,701]

2 minutes ago, Reed Rothchild said:

DS vs 3DS vs GBA vs SNES vs NES vs PS1 vs PS2 vs PS4 vs Switch.  Go.

Easy. Final Fantasy VI is the greatest game of all time and it can be played on multiple of those so everyone wins. Done.

[Makar | 1,946]

1 hour ago, Reed Rothchild said:

DS vs 3DS vs GBA vs SNES vs NES vs PS1 vs PS2 vs PS4 vs Switch.  Go.

DS wins. Fight me lol

[Grondorr | 49]

I have to see this has been a great thread. As someone who's primarily been collecting GBA for years now, it's interesting to see the system and its library finally getting some respect. I have a small collection of mostly loose SNES games, but they never hooked me the way the GBA did. While i did love the earlier GG and Lynx due to their lit screens and color displays, the GBA SP was really the first handheld that put it all together, a best in class LCD, rechargeable batteries, ultra portability, multiple generations of backwards compatibility, and a huge and fun library. It is still my favorite after all these years, and expect it always will be. Even though i now largely play GBA games as VC injects on my "new" 2DS XL as I'm getting older and appreciate a little larger of a screen. I'm not going to weigh in on favorite libraries, as I'm totally biased, but will say I'm glad I have access to both, even though the only SNES games i have been playing are the GBA ports, well that and Chronotrigger DS. (Don't forget in the heart of every DS/3DS/2DS there lives a GBA, which you can access to play your games natively on the same processing architecture as the GBA, even if you have to jump through some hoops to access it.) To me it's definitely a GOAT handheld and that's something I think more and more people can agree with.

Edited October 20, 2020 by Grondorr

[Renmauzo | 1,205]

As much as I love the SNES, the GBA has my favorite library of games. To be fair, it's about 120 or so games that I feel strongly about (about the same as SNES), but I find myself always ready to play those GBA games whereas I often get the 'maybe next time' feeling with the SNES games.

The Mega Man Battle Network series is my favorite series of games, and then there are unique titles like Boktai, pure fun like Astro Boy, one of the best Harvest Moon games in (More) Friend's of Mineral Town, Medabots, Super Ghouls n' Ghosts which is as definitive a version as one could ask for in my opinion, interesting one-off RPGs like Cima...and that's without even getting into the great Castlevanias, Metroids, Kirbys, Pokémons, and many more.

...and Hamtaro: Ham-Ham Heartbreak is great, just sayin'.

The GBA is 'it' for me, but I can understand the idea that the DS library builds on the portable greatness that came before and could be considered even better.

Edit: Either way, GBA or DS, you can't lose. I love portable systems, just love 'em.

Edited October 20, 2020 by Renmauzo
Pic

[Br81zad | 629]

On 10/17/2020 at 4:57 PM, Sumez said:

"room for improvement" is such a nice way of putting it XD

At work we're supposed to call these "opportunities"....

[Reed Rothchild | 9,585]

13 hours ago, Makar said:

DS wins. Fight me lol

Which one has Hades and Dead Cells and Breath of the Wild and Bayonetta 2 and Final Fantasy VII and Okami and Into the Breach and Super Mario Galaxy and Astral Chain and Dark Souls? 

[cartman | 195]

22 hours ago, Sumez said:

Yeah, it's a pretty sorry state of affairs. I'm sure there's great content out there, but it's drowning.  And I'm not good at digging these things up.

I think Game Sack is great he gives a good yet simple rundown of consoles along with different technical specs, regions etc. when those issues are worth bringing up.  Covers a lot of games all across the board under different themes, some of it will be shit you maybe didn't even know about like Jap exclusives or games that never got ported outside the Arcade. Really good channel still even though there used to be 2 of them but 1 went off to focus on other things in life.

[MegaMan52 | 2,461]

17 hours ago, Reed Rothchild said:

DS vs 3DS vs GBA vs SNES vs NES vs PS1 vs PS2 vs PS4 vs Switch.  Go.

The NES and PS1 destroy them all.