General Current Events/Political Discussion

[Tulpa | 3,580]

3 minutes ago, Estil said:

Actually I was elected assistant steward...I was pretty much powerless though.  It sounds like though your assistant had better luck though?

Maybe. It's definitely a case by case basis.

But the same can be said for employers in that some like to screw over employees. They're the reason unions exist in the first place.

Edited July 20, 2020 by Tulpa

[Rhino | 105]

12 hours ago, drxandy said:

"Defund: prevent from continuing to receive funds."

Defund doesn't mean "to switch how funding is allocated". If the defund the police movement is aimed at changing fund allocations of police departments, the movement should be renamed to reflect that. Maybe something like redistribute police funding. 

[Estil | 1,281]

4 minutes ago, Tulpa said:

Maybe. It's definitely a case by case basis.

But the same can be said for employers in that some like to screw over employees. They're the reason unions exist in the first place.

The problem is that both sides can do that, and in fact in my case they colluded against me in getting me fired in 2010 (long story; I really don't want to reopen THAT old wound).  Traditionally unions are supposed to and traditionally are meant to be on the side of the working people...but sadly as I naively had to learn the hard way it isn't always so in practice.  I guess that's all the more reason I can't just blindly take any group's mission/brochures/etc at face value.  I mean, it's one thing to support their mission overall on the balance sheet but to be in a position where you're at or near their inner circle, well that's a totally different matter.  I know I'm not explaining this quite right but it's kinda like how no matter how much you love sausage you probably would NOT want to see how it's made!!

[MrWunderful | 2,927]

9 minutes ago, Estil said:

Actually I was elected assistant steward...I was pretty much powerless though.  It sounds like though your assistant had better luck though?

UFCW is a notoriously “weak” union. Most non- skilled trade unions are. They force you to pay dues (im assuming you worked at a supermarket? Or something similar) and you get nothing almost in return. 
 

If I told you what my union gets me (as a construction electrician) you would be shocked (pun).  But we are a skilled trade, with real danger on the job and a ton of training and certs required. 
 

Our PAC is 100% voluntary, and anything that isnt is voted on by the membership (using general funds to sponsor events, etc. )
 

It saddens me to see people who are soured on unions because of some of those weak unions that do the minimum

[Estil | 1,281]

11 minutes ago, MrWunderful said:

UFCW is a notoriously “weak” union. Most non- skilled trade unions are. They force you to pay dues (im assuming you worked at a supermarket? Or something similar) and you get nothing almost in return. 

Oh I'm not soured on unions, just that one that left a disappointing impression to say the least.  And yes all the more reason I believe unions should be open-shop/right-to-work whatever (it should be a worker's right to choose whether to be a dues paying member or not) and that major decisions like whether or join/unjoin or accept/reject the latest CBA or whatnot should be strictly secret ballot and not that weird postcard thing they were trying to propose a few years back where everyone on both sides could see clearly who did/did not sign the postcards and either side could use that info against you in someway.  I mean, with only one tiny little exception I'm very much "pro-choice" on most things.  At the grocery store I settle for no less than choice beef!  

Edited July 20, 2020 by Estil

[CodysGameRoom | 2,009]

21 minutes ago, Rhino said:

"Defund: prevent from continuing to receive funds."

Defund doesn't mean "to switch how funding is allocated". If the defund the police movement is aimed at changing fund allocations of police departments, the movement should be renamed to reflect that. Maybe something like redistribute police funding. 

You are looking at a definition of a word instead of reacting to the real world goals.

What does ‘defund the police’ mean and does it have merit?

"“Defund the police” means reallocating or redirecting funding away from the police department to other government agencies funded by the local municipality. That’s it. It’s that simple. "

[Estil | 1,281]

Just now, CodysGameRoom said:

You are looking at a definition of a word instead of reacting to the real world goals.

What does ‘defund the police’ mean and does it have merit?

"“Defund the police” means reallocating or redirecting funding away from the police department to other government agencies funded by the local municipality. That’s it. It’s that simple. "

I call that the "dictionary defense/argument"...where someone defensively asks how can someone be against so-and-so issue when the dictionary just defines it as "so-and-so"?  The problem is, in most cases what the issue means in the dictionary is very different from what it means in practice.

[Tulpa | 3,580]

27 minutes ago, Estil said:

The problem is that both sides can do that, and in fact in my case they colluded against me in getting me fired in 2010 (long story; I really don't want to reopen THAT old wound).  Traditionally unions are supposed to and traditionally are meant to be on the side of the working people...but sadly as I naively had to learn the hard way it isn't always so in practice.  I guess that's all the more reason I can't just blindly take any group's mission/brochures/etc at face value.  I mean, it's one thing to support their mission overall on the balance sheet but to be in a position where you're at or near their inner circle, well that's a totally different matter.  I know I'm not explaining this quite right but it's kinda like how no matter how much you love sausage you probably would NOT want to see how it's made!!

You had a bad experience. I'm sorry.

But don't let that make you take a blanket view on all unions. That's projecting and leads to a very narrow, unrealistic viewpoint. I know you're capable of more than that.

[Estil | 1,281]

5 minutes ago, Tulpa said:

You had a bad experience. I'm sorry.

But don't let that make you take a blanket view on all unions. That's projecting and leads to a very narrow, unrealistic viewpoint. I know you're capable of more than that.

Are you sure I'm capable of more than that?  Are you sure you're sure?    As far as any kind of projecting I never ever ever use any kind of projection TV for my video games!  

[Tulpa | 3,580]

Just now, Estil said:

Are you sure I'm capable of more than that?  Are you sure you're sure?    As far as any kind of projecting I never ever ever use any kind of projection TV for my video games!  

I actually use a Samsung DLP rear projection. Cutting edge in 2007, and works pretty good for my RetroUSB AVS.

[Estil | 1,281]

7 minutes ago, Tulpa said:

I actually use a Samsung DLP rear projection. Cutting edge in 2007, and works pretty good for my RetroUSB AVS.

I'm still skeptical about that whole RetroUSB AVS thing.  I mean the first time I found out the hard way about controller input lag on a flat screen TV...that really left a very sour taste in my mouth (thank GOD I was able to get a nice 20" CRT Emerson (2006-07ish model?) monitor several years back for a mere $25).  I mean it does no good to have a mint condition shiny chrome sports/luxury car or whatever if it drives/handles like a shopping cart.    As the AVGN so puts it...

 

Edited July 20, 2020 by Estil

[Tulpa | 3,580]

14 minutes ago, Estil said:

I'm still skeptical about that whole RetroUSB AVS thing.  I mean the first time I found out the hard way about controller input lag on a flat screen TV...that really left a very sour taste in my mouth (thank GOD I was able to get a nice 20" CRT Emerson (2006-07ish model?) monitor several years back for a mere $25).  I mean it does no good to have a mint condition shiny chrome sports/luxury car or whatever if it drives/handles like a shopping cart.    As the AVGN so puts it...

The AVS itself has no lag.

My TV has no noticeable lag (I'm sure if you tested it it has some lag, but not enough for a human to notice, I don't care who you are.) It's fully capable of playing Punch-Out with no lag on Tyson.

 

I can't play on a small screen anymore. I'd have to have a minimum 36" CRT (because that's how big my screen would be in 4:3 mode.) That's a 300lb behemoth I don't need.  My DLP actually weighs slightly less than my LCD I have in my living room.

Edited July 20, 2020 by Tulpa

[drxandy | 3,253]

[Rhino | 105]

1 hour ago, CodysGameRoom said:

You are looking at a definition of a word instead of reacting to the real world goals.

What does ‘defund the police’ mean and does it have merit?

"“Defund the police” means reallocating or redirecting funding away from the police department to other government agencies funded by the local municipality. That’s it. It’s that simple. "

I never denied that's what their real goal and meaning of defund the police is. I was simply saying they should have a better name or slogan to get their message across better because so many people DO think they actually want to fully get rid of police department funding. I give you a grade C- for your troll attempt. Do better next time.

[Estil | 1,281]

1 minute ago, Rhino said:

I never denied that's what their real goal and meaning of defund the police is. I was simply saying they should have a better name or slogan to get their message across better because so many people DO think they actually want to fully get rid of police department funding. I give you a grade C- for your troll attempt. Do better next time.

I doubt Cody was trying to troll on purpose but that's beside the point.  The point is the "defund the police" movement already made their first impression so I think it's a bit late to "get their message across better" if you know what I mean.

[Rhino | 105]

Controversial question incoming. Why don't people get nearly as upset when a white person is innocently killed by police? Why is it only when it's a white cop killing a black person? In both instances we as a society only seem to highlight and get worked up about the cases where a black person is the victim. However, in both cases, the police screwed up and innocent lives were lost. 

[Estil | 1,281]

4 minutes ago, Rhino said:

Controversial question incoming. Why don't people get nearly as upset when a white person is innocently killed by police? Why is it only when it's a white cop killing a black person? In both instances we as a society only seem to highlight and get worked up about the cases where a black person is the victim. However, in both cases, the police screwed up and innocent lives were lost. 

That's among my main criticisms of BLM.  They're sending the wrong kind of message that unless it's white on black then it's not nearly as big a deal.  You know that expression in the media "if it bleeds it leads"?  Maybe the expression here could be "cop white and victim black, story goes to the top of the pack...victim white, story goes out of front page sight".

Edited July 20, 2020 by Estil

[CodysGameRoom | 2,009]

13 minutes ago, Rhino said:

I never denied that's what their real goal and meaning of defund the police is. I was simply saying they should have a better name or slogan to get their message across better because so many people DO think they actually want to fully get rid of police department funding. I give you a grade C- for your troll attempt. Do better next time.

Once again, if showing you facts is trolling, then go ahead and continue to call me a troll. 

LOL imagine being called a troll by the guy who's first post in this thread was to tell everyone to "get a brain".

[CodysGameRoom | 2,009]

11 minutes ago, Rhino said:

Why don't people get nearly as upset when a white person is innocently killed by police?

Show me one person who isn't upset by that. Talk about trolling... 

12 minutes ago, Rhino said:

Why is it only when it's a white cop killing a black person?

Because systemic racism is a problem. 

12 minutes ago, Rhino said:

In both instances we as a society only seem to highlight and get worked up about the cases where a black person is the victim.

Because systemic racism is a fucking problem.

9 minutes ago, Estil said:

They're sending the wrong kind of message that unless it's white on black then it's not nearly as big a deal.

No they aren't. Do research. They are protesting systemic racism. Which is a GIANT PROBLEM.

You guys don't get it. You don't and you never will because you don't see systemic racism as a huge issue, and no amount of patterns, facts, evidence, etc, show to you will change that. It's hopeless. You talk about wanting the country to come together and then deny systemic racism. The first step to fixing these issues is identifying the problem. 

 

[Rhino | 105]

6 minutes ago, CodysGameRoom said:

Show me one person who isn't upset by that. Talk about trolling... 

Because systemic racism is a problem. 

Because systemic racism is a fucking problem.

No they aren't. Do research. They are protesting systemic racism. Which is a GIANT PROBLEM.

You guys don't get it. You don't and you never will because you don't see systemic racism as a huge issue, and no amount of patterns, facts, evidence, etc, show to you will change that. It's hopeless. You talk about wanting the country to come together and then deny systemic racism. The first step to fixing these issues is identifying the problem. 

 

I said nearly as upset. You're not a very good troll. 

Yes systemic racism is a problem. 

I'll ask in another way. If police are viewed as being problematic, why do we focus almost only on certain acts of cop mistreatment when it's against black victims? Systemic racism is a problem. The defund the police movement is against police. BLM is for racial equality. The defund the police movement only gained serious traction after George Floyd. It never would've happened if George Floyd was white. 

[spacepup | 2,435]

I think most people would agree that anyone dying at the hands of police (or anyone else), is a tragedy.  Now, obviously there are some situations where it may have been necessary in order to prevent future harm, save lives, or stop a horrible incident.  I'll be the first to admit that there ARE absolutely situations where perhaps lethal force was the only practical means necessary of diffusing a situation, as terrible as it may be.  

A white person (or any other type of person) dying unjustly at the hands of police, is definitely an unfortunate tragedy, worthy of reflection, discussion, accountability, and so much more.  But talking about black people dying in similar fashion, is not an attempt to completely invalidate those other deaths.  It is a specific discussion, and a specific issue, that is being highlighted because of the disproportionate rate at which it is happening, when compared to the total population.  There are numerous studies to this effect, and it doesn't take long to find the data.

People are angry, and passionate, and fueling this discussion right now, because they have been trying to highlight this problem for further analysis, discussion, change, and in many people's minds, nothing has happened, or not enough has been done.  It is still happening.  The disproportionate deaths are still happening.  And yet again - NO - this does not invalidate the horrible tragedy of a white (or other) person dying also.  

So - we've identified the issue - now what?  Many people have differing opinions - and we can't even agree on the WHY, much less the WHAT to do about it.  As for the why, I believe it's incredibly complicated and our history absolutely plays a significant role in the why.  I don't think it can be brushed off with some extreme view of "all cops are evil racists" or "black people are dangerous criminals."  And even if those were true, or partially true, WHY!  If we truly believe that white people and black people (and everyone else) are all born human, and that we all share the same humanity, then what is going on in our society, that these disproportionate issues are occurring?  The answer, perhaps, lies in some of the systemic social issues we have, and we should be talking about that!  And now people are trying to talk about that.  And they want more than 'just' talk.

This isn't a problem we can just fix with a law, or a singular process.  But I refuse to believe that there is absolutely nothing we can do to address this issue.  And when people won't even acknowledge that it's an issue, that shows me we have much left to do.  And a focus on addressing this issue, does NOT mean that there are no other important issues!  There are battles for those as well, and people are fighting those.  

[spacepup | 2,435]

And everyone needs to STOP it with the snarky, passive aggressive "calling out" of others' troll attempts on here.  Quit the little jabs.  If you want to have a conversation about the items, then do so.  But stop it with the tit-for-tat 'troll harder' nonsense.

[Rhino | 105]

13 minutes ago, spacepup said:

I think most people would agree that anyone dying at the hands of police (or anyone else), is a tragedy.  Now, obviously there are some situations where it may have been necessary in order to prevent future harm, save lives, or stop a horrible incident.  I'll be the first to admit that there ARE absolutely situations where perhaps lethal force was the only practical means necessary of diffusing a situation, as terrible as it may be.  

A white person (or any other type of person) dying unjustly at the hands of police, is definitely an unfortunate tragedy, worthy of reflection, discussion, accountability, and so much more.  But talking about black people dying in similar fashion, is not an attempt to completely invalidate those other deaths.  It is a specific discussion, and a specific issue, that is being highlighted because of the disproportionate rate at which it is happening, when compared to the total population.  There are numerous studies to this effect, and it doesn't take long to find the data.

People are angry, and passionate, and fueling this discussion right now, because they have been trying to highlight this problem for further analysis, discussion, change, and in many people's minds, nothing has happened, or not enough has been done.  It is still happening.  The disproportionate deaths are still happening.  And yet again - NO - this does not invalidate the horrible tragedy of a white (or other) person dying also.  

So - we've identified the issue - now what?  Many people have differing opinions - and we can't even agree on the WHY, much less the WHAT to do about it.  As for the why, I believe it's incredibly complicated and our history absolutely plays a significant role in the why.  I don't think it can be brushed off with some extreme view of "all cops are evil racists" or "black people are dangerous criminals."  And even if those were true, or partially true, WHY!  If we truly believe that white people and black people (and everyone else) are all born human, and that we all share the same humanity, then what is going on in our society, that these disproportionate issues are occurring?  The answer, perhaps, lies in some of the systemic social issues we have, and we should be talking about that!  And now people are trying to talk about that.  And they want more than 'just' talk.

This isn't a problem we can just fix with a law, or a singular process.  But I refuse to believe that there is absolutely nothing we can do to address this issue.  And when people won't even acknowledge that it's an issue, that shows me we have much left to do.  And a focus on addressing this issue, does NOT mean that there are no other important issues!  There are battles for those as well, and people are fighting those.  

What should we as a society do to stop systemic racism, or to start, lessen the severity of it?

[MrWunderful | 2,927]

Why isnt anyone upset at the white nationalists, actually killing people at protests?

 

Why isnt anyone upset with the federal government sending law enforcement into cities to whisk people into to un-marked cars, with no rights?

[MrWunderful | 2,927]

26 minutes ago, Rhino said:

What should we as a society do to stop systemic racism, or to start, lessen the severity of it?

Defund the police.