"Cheating" When Playing Games

[Bearcat-Doug | 5,105]

13 hours ago, mbd39 said:

I don't like the baseball bat trick in DD1. I just punch enemies earlier on to get more hearts  so that I have the elbow when I need it.

This honestly works about as quickly as the baseball bat trick since you can earn the back elbow before the end of Mission 2 anyway.

Edited July 8, 2023 by Bearcat-Doug

[DoctorEncore | 3,691]

22 hours ago, spacepup said:

I think it depends on your own personal preference.  For example, speedrunners use "cheats" and glitches all the time to accomplish their goals, and it is still super fun to watch. 

For me, it really depends on the game and how much it breaks it.  Some RPGs have item duplication glitches that effectively break the game and remove all challenge.  I'd choose not to do that personally, just so I enjoy the game more.  If others want to, that is their prerogative of course.

I also know many people who try to play through 'legit' the first time, but then subsequent playthroughs, anything is fair game.  So I think it just depends on where you are in the game, how many times you've played it, what your goals are, and what your preferences are.

Agreed. Play the way you like and don't worry about whether you're playing the "right" way. Just have fun.

On my first playthrough, I rarely know about any glitches or cheats since I play games without reading reviews and I never use guides. That being said, if I do know about them, I avoid glitches such as item duplication or continuity breaks.  I don't really want to break the in-game economy or progression system. I want to experience the game as it was intended since a ton of time goes into balancing these things to make the game feel good.

That being said, I think all games should just include an option for invincibility, infinite money, infinite magic, maxed out stats, stage select, etc. If it's locked behind the first completion, that's fine, but I don't even think that's necessary. Just let people play the way they want to play within the limits of the game engine. It's absolutely crazy to me that there is not a free play/free build mode in Tears of the Kingdom. Knowing Nintendo, it will be included as part of some paid DLC.

[rdrunner | 422]

Years and years of being asked this question has led me to a couple of simple truths...

Playing in competition: Ask the community first.

Playing by yourself: Don't think so hard and just have fun!

[guitarzombie | 927]

Again, the GOAT Doom does it the best.  Im talking about Doom Eternal.  The game can be PUNISHINGLY difficult.  But when playing, you can raise or lower the difficulty mid level if you're struggling or its too easy.  Use cheats that you can find in a level?  Sure!  It wont prohibit you from progressing.  Boss keeps killing you?  They give you an option of 'sentinel' armor that you can agree or refuse to use.  They put the game in your hands and allow you to play how you want to play.  Want to play without any indicators on the screen?  Sure, you can do that too and make the game as challenging as you want.

[AirVillain | 490]

16 hours ago, mbd39 said:

I don't like the baseball bat trick in DD1. I just punch enemies earlier on to get more hearts  so that I have the elbow when I need it.

IMO, Contra is way more fun without the code because you actually learn how to play rather than brute force your way through by burning lives. Feels so much more rewarding. I think the reason why Contra seems so hard to people is that everyone uses the code and they never learn the game. It's not that hard. Although for total casuals and those who lack the skills, it can be more fun with the code, especially in a co-op setting 

I guess I'm just not that good at DD and need all the moves as quickly as I can get them, haha. 

Yeah, I hear that about Contra. If you have the 30 lives then you don't give a shit and casn .

For me, the game is not "that hard" but it's CONSTANT and fucking FULL-ON right from jump. You gotta attack the game right from the very first level and there's no let-up. So if you do that, then you have a chance because you build lives pretty much every level you pass (If you're grabbing power-ups/killing lots of ppl). 

But you can't ever get complacent. 
 

2 hours ago, Bearcat-Doug said:

The baseball bat trick in Double Dragon is a glitch, so I'd say that one is a bit suspect. Farming lives like in Mega Man 2 isn't really cheating since the enemies drop them, but it's still kinda lazy.

Nah, it's not like you're a horrible cheating jerk, but yeah... lazy at the very least. 

BUT that being said... I'll gladly do it when playing on my own and I just want to get through Wily's Castle without having to worry too much, haha.   Especially with some of the MM games I don't play as often. I'll load up on lives, fuck it. 
 

 

54 minutes ago, rdrunner said:

Years and years of being asked this question has led me to a couple of simple truths...

Playing in competition: Ask the community first.

Playing by yourself: Don't think so hard and just have fun!

Yes. Exactly this.

If you're doing it for a competition, then it's whatever that community deems necessary. Whether it's SpeedDemosArchive/Games Done Quick/Twin Galaxies they each have their own sets of rules for each game/track. 

For yourself... whatever you want for the game!

That being said, when I "need" to cheat on a game just so I can experience it, I feel BETTER about it because without cheating, I'd NEVER get that far in the game/experience it without doing it. 

[Estil | 1,265]

Just remember when posting high scores and whatnot to take a picture of BOTH your monitor and console in the same picture to prove you're not using a cheating device or nooooooooo Nintendo Power Stamps for you!!

[T-Pac | 7,577]

I've grown a lot more lenient about "cheating" in games recently, since I'm on a mission to finish more games with less frustration at my below-average skill level.

That being said, I get more satisfaction / gratification about a playthrough when I cheat less:

A) Using overpowered game-mechanics and strategies (special weapons, camping, health-farming, etc.) is always legit.

B) Optimizing native game configuration (easy modes, extra lives / credits, etc.) diminishes the sense of victory a bit, but is still fine.

C) Exploiting in-game glitches (1-up tricks, despawning enemies, pause-exploits, etc.) also feels fine.

D) Playing with peripheral and guide advantages (turbo-buttons, slow-motion toggles, strategy publications, hint-sheets, etc.) is more acceptable when the hardware / material was available in the game's respective era, but doesn't detract too much from the accomplishment.

E) Enabling in-game cheat codes and hidden configuration menus (included more for developers than players) is a bit less "honorable", but still valid when it's built into the game.

F) Employing external cheat functions (save-states, rewind, cheat devices, etc.) doesn't feel good, but is worth it when it lets me finish a game that would otherwise be too cumbersome without the help.

(I'm still not sure how comprehensive, modern walkthroughs fit into my tiers of "cheating", but I try to avoid them unless they feel exceedingly necessary.)

[T-Pac]

[Tanooki | 4,943]

I'm fine going to half price buying old game guide since faqs in text SUCK.  I will get any game guide to an old game I have and use and abuse those maps so I don't waste hours going in the wrong direction to stupid deaths going from start to end of an area/cave/dungeon so I can keep the story going.  I won't really use it to cheap my way through bosses as that's boring, but still, the mystery is gone so it is a bit of a mild cheat.  I don't have the time to waste on dumb crap anymore so maps away!

[Estil | 1,265]

2 hours ago, Tanooki said:

I'm fine going to half price buying old game guide since faqs in text SUCK.  I will get any game guide to an old game I have and use and abuse those maps so I don't waste hours going in the wrong direction to stupid deaths going from start to end of an area/cave/dungeon so I can keep the story going.  I won't really use it to cheap my way through bosses as that's boring, but still, the mystery is gone so it is a bit of a mild cheat.  I don't have the time to waste on dumb crap anymore so maps away!

Yeah I remember many years ago how people apparently thought text only guides were supposed to replace actual strategery guides as after all, text guides are free (sound familiar?)!  But actual guides give you maps and charts and such you can't get in a text only guide.  Though for whatever reason some guides like Battle Network 6 and Battle Network Transmission don't include maps...  

And don't even get me started on that Swiss cheese Final Fantasy 9 guide with that stupid PlayOnline gimmick (it was meant for you to go online and type in a keyword but I guess they weren't thinking far enough ahead to when this would inevitably be retired and taken offline).

[Tanooki | 4,943]

@Estil UGH I hate those guides, I avoid them when you have very few or no images.  I barely put up with those who don't have area maps.  I just got a Secret of Evermore guide a week or two back during my power/net outages and it lacks some area maps or at least useful ones, but the rest of the content brings it up enough it's totally worthy.

The thing is, youtube was suppose to replace the guides, and they kind of do in places if you can tolerate loading a big file or pieces of big files until you find the right one, then scroll to the point and get your answer.  It's painful on a small screen but ok on a PC.  I put it about even or a margin better than a well done scanned PDF of an old print guide as they are a life saver in a pinch, but if the quality at all suffers they're impossible to read clearly the smaller your screen gets which just puts most tablets and all phones out of the picture which is a shame.

I'll hit up that half price books near me 5x a week in the school year and the other twice a week looking for stuff and guides are one of them.  I haven't counted lately but my guess would be around 100 and while they're rarely used, when I do dust off the right game, they're a life saver.  And at times, like with manuals, sometimes they're enough adventure when time doesn't allow too due to solid production values.

 

...I hated that FF9 playdia garbage, but the guide itself still held up enough with the area maps not to be a burden.

[peg | 372]

Not a fan of pause spamming to play in slow mo.  Worse than using save states.

[fcgamer | 4,738]

On 7/9/2023 at 11:38 AM, peg said:

Not a fan of pause spamming to play in slow mo.  Worse than using save states.

Definitely gotta pause spam on Rad Racer, though on the original Mega Man it'd be a sin.

[G-type | 2,487]

On 7/7/2023 at 6:07 PM, mbd39 said:

There's a lot of this kind of thing in Battletoads such as the shortcut in Karnath's Lair, being immune to missiles when at the bottom of the screen in Volkmire's Inferno, punching to stay in place in the underwater part of Terra Tubes, pause abuse in Clinger Winger, etc. But they only make an extremely hard game a bit more fair for the player so it never feels like cheating.

Dodging all the little ships in turbo tunnel by staying in the bottom left

[Andy_Bogomil | 815]

I draw the line between exploits (point farming/pause buffering) and straight up glitching the game (duplicating items, zipping/warping, glitch to credits, etc.)

Outside of fast travel in Zelda: Totk, I use a hover bike 99% of the time to get around and you can beat the vast majority of puzzles with the redhand-rewind combo and nothing else. I don't see either of those as cheating but they're definitely cheese strategies. I did do the duplication glitch for rupees, but that's quality of life cheating that saves time and doesn't really make the game easier... I fully admit to that being 'cheating' though.

In speed running terms, I would like the glitchless any% runs. Even the term 'glitch' has some controversy with there being 'major' and 'minor' glitches.

 

 

[Ankos | 452]

On 7/8/2023 at 11:38 PM, peg said:

Not a fan of pause spamming to play in slow mo.  Worse than using save states.

That's an edge case for me. It's like save scumming, where you technically didn't break the rules of the game, but are clearly using something that is more of a quality of life mechanic as a way to make the game easier. It gets even more  egregious when you've got stuff like MM2 where pausing stalls your fall speed, meaning you can traverse much further distances with a single jump

[AirVillain | 490]

On 7/10/2023 at 1:58 AM, G-type said:

Dodging all the little ships in turbo tunnel by staying in the bottom left

I did not know about this. 

Personally, I probably wouldn't use it every-time/after trying it once because beating that level kind of feels like beating the game for me, haha. 

Well... I guess the next boss would be it. Nah... the swimming maze part probably. Once I'm in the second racing tube part I fucking get angry... so once I accomplish the turbo tunnels, I'm basically done.