NES Metroid is boring

[SilverSurfer | 11]

3 hours ago, Tanooki said:

@SilverSurfer You can't be convinced, but where I'm lost is where is your argument exactly WHY it is boring. I re-read that first post, you seem more confused about how to approach it than just being bored.  Or the fact you're confused makes you bored because you give up trying?  If that is the reason then I'd get why you'd be bored because you're doing circles and getting(feeling like getting?) nowhere.

The game itself inherently despite the shadowy hidden utterly counterintuitive and lame speed time for the best view of Samus is designed to be more slower, plodding, exploratory, and with a dash of foreboding and spooky intent really.  You go in blind and damn near naked in a way, a cork gun on a short string is your only attack and enough life for someone in a shirt and pants would have too.

No map, no damn clue (other than manual) why you're there or what to do.  You're just dropped between two I guess enemies and a choice, and the wrong choice pops a 180 to fix that incorrect choice with the morph ball (maru mari.)  After that it's just more go and grow and hope not to die.  There's not much there to get bored of, there is too much there to get utterly confused and spun about to a point of annoyance, disappointment, and confusion and then some.  Call it the lack of developer foresight (no map, zones so lacking in detail areas feel to overlap as they kind of do in look) on top of the limits of the MMC1 spec of the time largely but not entirely parroting the already outdated FDS format.

Nintendo knew by the time it crept over to the states the game was lacking some fairly necessary gimmes to make sense of it.

The Official Nintendo Player's Guide (Pg52) out in 1987 about a year after the game with full maps.
 https://archive.org/details/The_Official_Nintendo_Players_Guide_1987/page/n47/mode/2up 
Later in 1991 (October) Nintendo Power V29 (Pg38) they did an 8 page spread with the maps and more again too.
https://archive.org/details/NintendoPower1988-2004/Nintendo Power Issue 029 (October 1991)/page/n39/mode/2up

There really is no reason to be bored with this at all if confusion was the reason, Nintendo kept giving out help with this one, once in the silver box era, then later when they re-issued the game in a yellow box too.  One the premium guide, the other just a standard off the rack copy of Nintendo Power.

Maybe the style of game isn't fun to you, then that would make sense too.  The game is just a product of the era, lacking in some common sense design that NCL didn't have, but NOA did, hence not once but twice giving way the full map and how to progress in the game to win, effectively giving you the map Super Metroid would have pre-built on paper.

Any game where the devs basically show and tell you how to beat it, is inherently flawed in my opinion. I love classic Nintendo hard games. Even homebrews like battle kid etc. I thoroughly enjoy the difficulty. But it comes balanced with reward and progress and more importantly, enjoyment. Metroid to me is monotonous and sterile. There’s no thrill to the game. I never get any satisfaction from doing anything. I’m just aimlessly wandering around. It’s like Legacy of the Wizard. Another game that tries too hard to be so cryptic that in the end, I don’t care what the solution is. But maybe I will try the maps. If I can just get past the midpoint I feel like I might be able to see it through to the end.

[Tanooki | 4,936]

6 hours ago, SilverSurfer said:

Any game where the devs basically show and tell you how to beat it, is inherently flawed in my opinion. I love classic Nintendo hard games. Even homebrews like battle kid etc. I thoroughly enjoy the difficulty. But it comes balanced with reward and progress and more importantly, enjoyment. Metroid to me is monotonous and sterile. There’s no thrill to the game. I never get any satisfaction from doing anything. I’m just aimlessly wandering around. It’s like Legacy of the Wizard. Another game that tries too hard to be so cryptic that in the end, I don’t care what the solution is. But maybe I will try the maps. If I can just get past the midpoint I feel like I might be able to see it through to the end.

That's the thing, they're not.  I'd agree if the game itself did this, but it doesn't, it's a bit too extreme (artifact of its year/time) in not helping you out other than overly subtle roadblocks laid out, as it causes you to think differently to do things.  Perfect example surely is the ball bomb and missile the more obvious walls, but then you have platforms of the living you need ICE to make usable to get up into spaces.

The fact the guide exists, twice no less, is only for those who got perpetually stuck or just don't have the way to grasp this style of play so they laid it out a year and a few years later after that.

It is monotonous because there's a lack of space in the game to do even more detail on the limitations it had, same with color usage because it was a FDS port, which capped at the level of size the chip in the US release uses.  Had that game been twice the size even still using a MMC1 chip it would have been far more detailed and felt less samey in places.

The game rarely gives that thrill or rush, usually it's a nasty corridor or the couple bosses before you hit Tourian, it's just a slow bake exploration game for most.  It's Nintendo hard in that respect, not more go go go like Castlevania, NInja Gaiden, Mega Man.  Yet all those are also far less grand in scale in similar space because it's a limited set of locked stages, not some huge early era for the time open world type game.

 

Please do try the maps, I wouldn't even touch the game myself anymore after being spoiled by Super Metroid because of that ONE oversight, in game map missing (same with Metroid 2.)  And...ugh Legacy of the Wizard, agreed...I want to like it but I can't make sense of it which is a shame as it's part of the largely unlocalized series of titles the great Faxanadu resides.

[fcgamer | 4,729]

I figured it out. My take is that NES is great for those who have an imagination; those who don't, strongly prefer the visuals and sound effects of SNES and later machines.

[AirVillain | 490]

On 4/27/2023 at 7:02 PM, SilverSurfer said:

Not a troll post. If I try really hard, I guess I can see why some people enjoy this game. I just don’t like it at all. I spent countless hours as a kid wandering around aimlessly and never accomplished a damn thing. Recently picked it up again, and nope, still can’t get into it. 

what am I missing? I want to give another chance. Should I play it with a guide? Wouldn’t that be cheating? I must be doing something wrong with all the praise this game gets. Help me please.

I've generally felt the same way. Mostly because I'm lazy and don't generally like wandering around and having to "figure things out". 

But I have more recently wanted to go back to some of these games (Zelda as well) and use some maps/guides and play through them. 

I enjoy Metroid right up until the point where I don't know where the fuck to go/what to do. So that's about 1 minute into the game.

With a map/guide I think it will help give me purpose. Like if I know what I'm looking for then at least I have a goal and using a map I should be able to find it.

The maps Tanooki provides (quoted below) look great, and I would even try to get my hands on an OG magazine. 

There's probably a few spreads in Nintendo Power's as well...
 

On 4/27/2023 at 7:14 PM, mbd39 said:

I think a big part of the fun of Metroid is the sense of being lost in a hostile alien world and the exploration.

As a child I jsut felt lost, haha.

But now as an adult I think I will be able to appreciate it more. Although, like I said, I'll still use a map/guide, but I think I'll still have that "lost" feeling because I don't really play games that "in depth". 

Just give me a a gun and I will shoot the aliens. Done. Shoot the hell out of everyone and move to the right. Got it!!

 

On 4/27/2023 at 7:40 PM, Bearcat-Doug said:

Good point. Getting some graph paper and making your own map '80s style might be fun if you want the true retro experience.

I wanted to do this.... but personally for me I think it would take far too long. So I think the next best thing is to get on of the magazines that Tanooki linked. 
 

11 hours ago, Tanooki said:

@SilverSurfer You can't be convinced, but where I'm lost is where is your argument exactly WHY it is boring. I re-read that first post, you seem more confused about how to approach it than just being bored.  Or the fact you're confused makes you bored because you give up trying?  If that is the reason then I'd get why you'd be bored because you're doing circles and getting(feeling like getting?) nowhere.

The game itself inherently despite the shadowy hidden utterly counterintuitive and lame speed time for the best view of Samus is designed to be more slower, plodding, exploratory, and with a dash of foreboding and spooky intent really.  You go in blind and damn near naked in a way, a cork gun on a short string is your only attack and enough life for someone in a shirt and pants would have too.

No map, no damn clue (other than manual) why you're there or what to do.  You're just dropped between two I guess enemies and a choice, and the wrong choice pops a 180 to fix that incorrect choice with the morph ball (maru mari.)  After that it's just more go and grow and hope not to die.  There's not much there to get bored of, there is too much there to get utterly confused and spun about to a point of annoyance, disappointment, and confusion and then some.  Call it the lack of developer foresight (no map, zones so lacking in detail areas feel to overlap as they kind of do in look) on top of the limits of the MMC1 spec of the time largely but not entirely parroting the already outdated FDS format.

Nintendo knew by the time it crept over to the states the game was lacking some fairly necessary gimmes to make sense of it.

The Official Nintendo Player's Guide (Pg52) out in 1987 about a year after the game with full maps.
 https://archive.org/details/The_Official_Nintendo_Players_Guide_1987/page/n47/mode/2up 
Later in 1991 (October) Nintendo Power V29 (Pg38) they did an 8 page spread with the maps and more again too.
https://archive.org/details/NintendoPower1988-2004/Nintendo Power Issue 029 (October 1991)/page/n39/mode/2up

There really is no reason to be bored with this at all if confusion was the reason, Nintendo kept giving out help with this one, once in the silver box era, then later when they re-issued the game in a yellow box too.  One the premium guide, the other just a standard off the rack copy of Nintendo Power.

Maybe the style of game isn't fun to you, then that would make sense too.  The game is just a product of the era, lacking in some common sense design that NCL didn't have, but NOA did, hence not once but twice giving way the full map and how to progress in the game to win, effectively giving you the map Super Metroid would have pre-built on paper.

Thanks for the links to the guides with full maps! They look radical! Definitely will be in mind when I am taking a look at playing through this bad boy. 

[Reed Rothchild | 9,547]

2 hours ago, fcgamer said:

I figured it out. My take is that NES is great for those who have an imagination; those who don't, strongly prefer the visuals and sound effects of SNES and later machines.

They said the same thing about silent films

[fcgamer | 4,729]

2 minutes ago, Reed Rothchild said:

They said the same thing about silent films

Hey man, there's nothing inherently wrong about having no imagination.

[Reed Rothchild | 9,547]

2 minutes ago, fcgamer said:

Hey man, there's nothing inherently wrong about having no imagination.

Whatever you say grandpa!

[MrWunderful | 2,927]

If imagination is the metric, we should be reading books. 
 

Or hearing the town elder recant a magical story around a campfire. 

[spacepup | 2,405]

For all the criticisms people have with Metroid I've heard over the years, I haven't really heard many people describe it as "boring" but if that's how you feel, it's how you feel.

I certainly don't find it boring and absolutely loved the game.  Perhaps my enjoyment of it trended well because I played the games in order - I absolutely loved Metroid, and then when I played Super Metroid later, I just felt they really made the genre shine.  I love both games, and there will always be a special place in my heart for original Metroid.

I understand people getting frustrated and lost, not really sure where to go, but I enjoy the exploration aspects.  Some people complain when games like this are too linear, and some complain when they are not linear enough.  There is no perfect balance and it clearly differs by person.

Anyone can find the game boring and if that's how they feel, I can't say they are "wrong" because it isn't how I view games and people's enjoyment of them, but I would never describe Metroid in that way, personally.

[fcgamer | 4,729]

16 minutes ago, Reed Rothchild said:

Whatever you say grandpa!

Nothing wrong with that, I don't see aging as a negative.

[Tanooki | 4,936]

Personally I think if Metroid itself is too much of a stretch, and not wanting (which I get) to keep your phone open or a book open with a map, or even print out a couple pages too... there's Metroid Zero Mission which is the old game, added a map with some QOL updates and that new Chozo region too.  Play that, skip the NES, get the same original story with it not being a clunky dated by now mess.

[Reed Rothchild | 9,547]

For those interested, Zero Mission also includes the original game as well.

[Tulpa | 3,514]

2 hours ago, fcgamer said:

Nothing wrong with that, I don't see aging as a negative.

*bar scene in 2083*

*hot young twenty somethings chatting, dancing, drinking*

*90 year old Dave enters*

"Let's get the party started!"

*slowly makes his way to the dancefloor using walker*

 

 

Edited April 30, 2023 by Tulpa

[Estil | 1,265]

Now Metroid 2 is a REAL nightmare without a map!  With everything in b/w and looking pretty much the same!

[phart010 | 1,707]

13 hours ago, AirVillain said:

Thanks for the links to the guides with full maps! They look radical! Definitely will be in mind when I am taking a look at playing through this bad boy. 

If you want to play the NES version, please do consider playing Metroid Mother+99. There are some definitely frustrating parts to the vanilla NES game (I personally can see past them because I have mastered the game)

The patch will make it more enjoyable for new people playing. Also @SilverSurfer

[RH | 4,916]

20 hours ago, Reed Rothchild said:

They said the same thing about silent films

I think that’s an interesting perspective but it’s not apples to apples.  People were making arguments like that in support of there not being change for the film industry, which was silly and short sighted.

Other than “mom” in the mall on the nightly news in 92, no one expects or expected video games not to improve and innovate.

Your point seems to elude that we lovers of Metroid feel like games should have never innovated and progressed. None of us feel that way.

But with that said, that doesn’t mean the old classics aren’t worth playing and aren’t enjoyable but they do require a higher dose of imagination to be appreciated.  This was and is true for really old B&W film and of course even the silent films.  Regardless, a lot of that old original media is enjoyable but you obviously have to adjust your expectations.

It is a interesting comparison, but considering the early movies we’re focused towards adults and video games were geared toward kids, we were already both imaginative at the time but we were also always up for the next, new big and fun thing.

Metroid is a fun game and isn’t boring if you can adjust your expectations according to the period that was made.  That said, no one is arguing that as technology advanced, it didn’t improve the gaming experience. You just can’t quite fairly compare M1 and SM because they were made in significantly different eras of gaming.

17 hours ago, Estil said:

Now Metroid 2 is a REAL nightmare without a map!  With everything in b/w and looking pretty much the same!

Really?! I found that one much easier.  Yes the shades-if-green made the game look a lot more similar but I feel like the addition of the earthquakes to open up new areas made it much easier and guided.  M2 is by no means a linear game but knowing where to go next after clearing specific objects was much easier to figure out.  You always crossed over some acid pull on your way to your next proper location.  Once you killed the last Metroid in one region, the quake tipped you off to go back to the last acid/lava pool you saw and see if it was cleared.

I felt M2 was much easier than the first. It’s so well made that IMHO, it’s one of two games on the OG Game Boy I’d give a 10.

Edited May 1, 2023 by RH

[phart010 | 1,707]

58 minutes ago, RH said:

I felt M2 was much easier than the first. It’s so well made that IMHO, it’s one of two games on the OG Game Boy I’d give a 10.

Haha We’ll be defending Metroid 2 to the grave. I am presuming your other Gameboy 10 is Links Awakening?

[RH | 4,916]

2 minutes ago, phart010 said:

Haha We’ll be defending Metroid 2 to the grave. I am presuming your other Gameboy 10 is Links Awakening?

Close. FF Adventures.  I played it first.  Link’s Awakening is pretty solid but FFA was my fist “adventure” game and also the game that introduced me to RPGs. I play it about once every 1-2 years.

[AirVillain | 490]

10 hours ago, phart010 said:

If you want to play the NES version, please do consider playing Metroid Mother+99. There are some definitely frustrating parts to the vanilla NES game (I personally can see past them because I have mastered the game)

The patch will make it more enjoyable for new people playing. Also @SilverSurfer

Now how am I going to patch that onto my NES cart? 



(Once I get an everdrive I'll come back and sheepishly ask )

But really though... I'm hoping whatever map/guide will suffice. It should. Unless I hate the game. Which.... I never hated the mechanics or idea of it, I just never had a PURPOSE and that's frustrating for me when I'm playing a video game, especially as a child, haha.

If I have something telling me a basic order and idea of where shit is that would help immensely.

I know that is cheating/taking some "fun" out of the purpose of the game for a game like this, but I'm fine with that. I just want to experience the game. 

[phart010 | 1,707]

1 hour ago, RH said:

Close. FF Adventures.  I played it first.  Link’s Awakening is pretty solid but FFA was my fist “adventure” game and also the game that introduced me to RPGs. I play it about once every 1-2 years.

Ok I will give this a try. I have had it for years but never actually played it

[Tanooki | 4,936]

I find Final Fantasy Adventure (aka Seiken Densetsu, prequel to Secret of Mana) to be the better gameboy game too.  The controls are responsive, there are far more varied areas to see and enemies to splat.  The boss battles are more engaging and varied too, perhaps even more intense.  Zelda has a story there and it's good, but the one of FFA is more present and more I guess emotional it draws you in more to care more.  It has slight bit more RPG elements over Zelda as you do have an experience level, leveling up lets you slap a few points down on one of a few attributes to make a more custom character too, and each area has a fairly ok at helping you out NPC too.  The music, as fantastic as the Zelda score it, the FFA one is better which is surprising yet not given the pedigree.  Other than the main variant of the Zelda theme the FFA soundtrack is more memorable, I can hear the overworld theme in my mind now just thinking about it.

[Reed Rothchild | 9,547]

3 hours ago, phart010 said:

Ok I will give this a try. I have had it for years but never actually played it

It's on the Mana collection as well

[RH | 4,916]

1 hour ago, Reed Rothchild said:

It's on the Mana collection as well

There's also a remake that came out for the GBA (Sword of Mana) and then there is the iOS app which is a tile-for-tile remake call Adventures of Mana.

I actually really enjoyed Adventure of Mana and I intend to  rebuild it.  There's also a minor bug/loop hole on one of the screens that was maintained.  Specifically, it allows you to quickly kill 4x enemies, exit the screen and when you come back they respawn.  For those unfamiliar with this game, there's this safety cap setup when once you enter a room and kill all of the enemies, you have to move 4x spaces away from that current screen for enemies to respawn there.  There's this one screen that once you enter, if you're standing in the right spot, you can throw your javelin and kill 4x wolves.  Then exit the screen and come back in and you can do it again without having to move 4x screen spaces away.  This allows for you to level up relatively fast, and that was preserved in Adventures of Mana, which also has a tilt-shift look close the the remake or Link's Awakening.  Once again, Nintendo copied Square with that one.

[phart010 | 1,707]

36 minutes ago, RH said:

There's also a remake that came out for the GBA (Sword of Mana) and then there is the iOS app which is a tile-for-tile remake call Adventures of Mana.

I actually really enjoyed Adventure of Mana and I intend to  rebuild it. 

Hmm… should I buy both games in the bundle for $19 or each one individually for $11?

[RH | 4,916]

4 minutes ago, phart010 said:

Hmm… should I buy both games in the bundle for $19 or each one individually for $11?

That's weird.  That might be an app store bug.  I like the iOS bundles because if you buy individual games an then they are added to a bundle, if the bundle goes on sale, the total amount you've applied to former purchases is deducted from your actual purchase price.     I've actually gotten games "free" by buying bundles at the right time.