NES or alternative...

[docile tapeworm | 4,204]

16 minutes ago, Khromak said:

Maybe this is just Moneybag$ speak, but I have basically all of my systems on RGB -> PVM and I haven't looked back. RGB modded toploader is insanely reliable, I don't think I've ever had a game not work after like 2 tries of plugging it in, the thing just works.

I have an AV Famicom and I've only had compatibility issues with like...one game? I'm sure there are more, but the vast majority of the library works no problem with a converter.

I went down a rgb rabbit hole. Sold my pvm and rgb nes. It’s cool but not much bang for your buck imo. I’ve gone back to composite via crt and….well… love it.

3 minutes ago, Khromak said:

IDK, there are plenty of people complaining about needing to take 5-10 attempts, cleaning games, hitting reset, shifting the game left or right, back or forward, pressing down, pulling the game out and putting it back in, and a dozen other things to get their toasters to work. You know, not being reliable? If it took 5 minutes and 10 turns of the key before your car turned on, you'd call it unreliable.

How many people complain about how it takes 5 tries to get their toploader to play a game? This is the difference between a reliable system and an unreliable one. Sure, you can say all you want about the video quality or the convenience of AV vs mods or RF, but if we're talking strictly reliability, there's absolutely no contest.

Bunch of Nancy I say. Sold my top loader sold my av famicom. Like @darkchylde28said minimal pm and it’s a non issue. And I get to keep my nostalgia.

[docile tapeworm | 4,204]

7 minutes ago, Tulpa said:

 

And now you have the gall to dismiss our feelings?

HAVE YOU NO SENSE OF DECENCY, SIR, AT LONG LAST? HAVE YOU LEFT NO SENSE OF DECENCY?

While I sit quietly and listen to these snowflakes slander the Mecca of video game consoles? The holiest of holy, Listen to the blasphemy?!

I say no!

[darkchylde28 | 1,546]

3 hours ago, Link said:

I recently bought one (for that reason of style) from somebody who said he boiled the pin connector and cleaned everything up. I couldn't get a single game to work in it, despite cleaning their pins with Q-tips and rubbing alcohol.

I'd be willing to bet that they didn't actually do it, or not for long enough for it to have any actual effect.  One thing I'd ask, though, is whether you tried it without pushing the game down, as with the brand new ones as well as original ones that have been tightened too much, games will work while they're pushed in and left alone, but will lose connection when you push it down because the pins are too stiff.  If not, should you find yourself in that situation ever again, try it without pushing the cart down, no matter how wrong it feels.

2 hours ago, Tulpa said:

You've never heard the countless complaints about the frontloader? It's like the number one quirk about it.

I don't think that he hasn't heard the complaints, but not so many people all at once, or clamoring as loudly as everyone has been.  It's a pretty simple issue to fix these days, now that we know what causes the issue, how to get the original connector back into shape, etc.  Back in the day, a lot of issues came from people using the Game Genie, which stretched the hell out of the pins, not cleaning their games or consoles regularly (usually waiting until stuff just wouldn't work then having stuff come out that looked like dark pencil shading on paper), or just continually shoving the games down further and harder when they didn't immediately function, causing the issue to get even worse.  I didn't do any of that, and it wasn't until maybe a decade ago that I needed to do any sort of tweaking to my original console, and really only did so then because I didn't want to try 2-3 times every 4-5 games to get them to work (which isn't at all bad if you're playing, but I was going through and testing my whole collection, which caused a headache).

2 hours ago, Khromak said:

Maybe this is just Moneybag$ speak, but I have basically all of my systems on RGB -> PVM and I haven't looked back. RGB modded toploader is insanely reliable, I don't think I've ever had a game not work after like 2 tries of plugging it in, the thing just works.

I have an AV Famicom and I've only had compatibility issues with like...one game? I'm sure there are more, but the vast majority of the library works no problem with a converter.

If the mods are done right, and you're careful and responsible with the console, absolutely, they can be rock solid.  But you nailed it in one, most people don't do it because of how expensive it is.  By the time you've paid for the RGB mod to be done properly and ponied up for even the cheapest of PVMs, you might as well have paid scalper prices for an NT Mini.  RGB + PVM will give you the best quality output possible while still being true to all the original technology (even though you had to mod the console to get it out), so it's basically the upper limit for total purists.  Unfortunately, most folks don't have the money to get to that point, or just don't feel that what they get out of it is worth the cost.  Personally, I'm a little bit of both columns, although I am able to appreciate it.

I've heard that the AV Famicom is absolutely solid, but my issue with it stems solely from trying to play NES games in it.  I've owned two Game Axe Color units (tube-LCD based Famicom handhelds from the last 90s, early 00s), and playing NES games on either one is a nightmare unless you're inserting only the cartridge board itself due to how loose everything is.  And the longer you're plugging and unplugging games into the adapter, the worse off the adapter and the system is over time.  If someone was to go that route, but only wanted to enjoy the NES library, I'd strongly encourage them to get the Famicom version of the Everdrive N8 so they didn't run into that issue, as it just gets to be an unstable mess with the NES equivalent of the "Tower of Power."

2 hours ago, Khromak said:

How many people complain about how it takes 5 tries to get their toploader to play a game? This is the difference between a reliable system and an unreliable one. Sure, you can say all you want about the video quality or the convenience of AV vs mods or RF, but if we're talking strictly reliability, there's absolutely no contest.

You're absolutely right.  The thing is, just like in my example given previously, all it takes is a little basic maintenance to either prevent these issues from occurring or fix them once they've happened.  If it literally never gets done, then yeah, the system is going to be totally unreliable, and it's going to be harder to get it back to where it needs to be.  But it's absolutely not difficult.  And it's a lot easier, and cheaper, than shelling out money for either of the top loader options (let alone modifying an NES top loader), and insanely cheaper than going the RGB + PVM route.  If money is not object, then yeah, do whatever you want, have someone else do it, and have it set up to work forever.  But if you're on a budge, or you don't feel it's worth hundreds of dollars of investment and yet still don't want to go to a cheap clone, doing 10-15 minutes of fiddling with the connector once in a while is absolutely the best way to go.

[Tanooki | 4,943]

In a way its the best of both worlds. Im using a top loader and kevtris’ core for the hi def nes kit.  That has playing with vintage style with all the modern dressings too while being fully famicom friendly as well.

[Dr. Morbis | 2,091]

It all comes down to cleaning: both the front loader and all of your carts.  If you clean your system and then put a dirty game in, guess what just happened?  You have to take the STD approach, no unclean game ever enters the console, period.  I cleaned all my NES games when I got them, so I have 800+ clean NES games and a clean console and every game boots first try about 95% of the time.

I clean the console once a year and the carts one time when I get them and that's it for life.  How freaking hard is that?  Seriously, I'm rockin' the same front loader I got for Christmas in 1987 and it works like a champ 35 years later.  Y'all are doin' it wrong...

[MrWunderful | 2,927]

1 hour ago, Dr. Morbis said:

It all comes down to cleaning: both the front loader and all of your carts.  If you clean your system and then put a dirty game in, guess what just happened?  You have to take the STD approach, no unclean game ever enters the console, period.  I cleaned all my NES games when I got them, so I have 800+ clean NES games and a clean console and every game boots first try about 95% of the time.

I clean the console once a year and the carts one time when I get them and that's it for life.  How freaking hard is that?  Seriously, I'm rockin' the same front loader I got for Christmas in 1987 and it works like a champ 35 years later.  Y'all are doin' it wrong...

yeah I dont let any carts in any consoles bareback either. Everything gets an alcohol scrubdown pre-insertion

[Tulpa | 3,526]

Didn't think VGS could turn this conversation sexual, but here we are. Color me impressed.

[darkchylde28 | 1,546]

4 hours ago, Tulpa said:

Didn't think VGS could turn this conversation sexual, but here we are. Color me impressed.

Well, this thread just wanted to fit in with the other three that started up in the last couple of days, lol.

[Andy_Bogomil | 815]

Boiled up my good one again, which is also our childhood system. Did the method on the top YT video. Boil for 5 min, insert a clean game a dozen times, boil for 5 more min. The grip is definitely tighter on the few games I played. I won't know for sure how well it worked until I put in more time but I played through the 8 guys in MM4 with no reset (which was the last game it messed up on). Also booted up 3 or 4 other games first try, so it has improved for the time being. I also am not pressing the carts down any more... was there ever a reason for this?.. seemed pointless even back in the day. 

[Tulpa | 3,526]

2 minutes ago, Andy_Bogomil said:

I also am not pressing the carts down any more... was there ever a reason for this?.. seemed pointless even back in the day. 

It was part of the "Lookie! It's just like a VCR!" marketing ploy by Nintendo.

Of course, it wasn't self-loading like a real VCR, but it was the thought that counts.

[a3quit4s | 4,121]

17 hours ago, Andy_Bogomil said:

Boiled up my good one again, which is also our childhood system. Did the method on the top YT video. Boil for 5 min, insert a clean game a dozen times, boil for 5 more min. The grip is definitely tighter on the few games I played. I won't know for sure how well it worked until I put in more time but I played through the 8 guys in MM4 with no reset (which was the last game it messed up on). Also booted up 3 or 4 other games first try, so it has improved for the time being. I also am not pressing the carts down any more... was there ever a reason for this?.. seemed pointless even back in the day. 

It’s pretty awesome that you still have your childhood console. I know they all look the same but there is nothing quite like playing the one you had as a kid to remind you that todays electronics are a pile of replaceable trash

[AirVillain | 490]

Personally, I'm 100% on team Boil & Bend. 

Works like a charm. I don't press my games down anymore, as others have mentioned. 

While we are here. If anyone remembers what CATEGORY the "Merlin Wizardry Bend & Boil" thread from NA was in, please tell me. I've been wanting to go on a deep dive to try to find it to copy and paste it here, but I can't find it. I forget who wrote it, but it, but along with the extra tips were great. What I'm really searching for is MY POST in which I want to repeat my own steps, haha. 

I think it would be helpful in these situations.

Anyways... I can't remember if it was in "Help Wanted" or "Gamer Gauntlet" or whatever... if anyone remembers I'm willing to search through the individual threads. 

 

On 3/4/2023 at 1:40 PM, docile tapeworm said:

At the end of the day the frontloader wont…operate as efficient as a top loader but the video output of a frontloader is superior when comparing unmodified consoles. 

Imo the faulty zif connector, along with the esthetic of the frontloader, is part of the experience, charm, nostalgia and when the zif needs boiled I welcome the experience as part of the hobby. 

back in the day we wiggled and prayed. Threw in some cardboard to smash it down more. I mean I remember tinkering for sometimes 15 minutes to hit the sweet spot….and if anybody breathed on the console it would reset lol! Omg your buddy would inevitably trip on the cord and kill your run!

also I have gone through them all. Toploader, av famicom, blinking light win…and after all said and done. I settled on a frontloader with a chipped corner and a loose zif, I’m the second owner of “joey’s” nes and it will stay that way. I wouldn’t mind if it was a bit more yellow or banged up lol. 

The toploader is shit. I have an article/thread in my head about this. 

I tried to play Mario 3 ~Christmas time on one and couldn't do it. It was disgusting. Literally stopped and turned it off in the first level.  

I'm also surprised at the baby'ing about the frontloader.

We just went for it when we were 10. Just slam a harmonica into that bad boy and press power!!

Haha, we used to use the Zapper.... other games... The Game Genie.... The game genie and the harmonica ended up being the top 2 choices depending on availability. 

(This topic also deserves its own thread)
 

17 hours ago, Andy_Bogomil said:

Boiled up my good one again, which is also our childhood system. Did the method on the top YT video. Boil for 5 min, insert a clean game a dozen times, boil for 5 more min. The grip is definitely tighter on the few games I played. I won't know for sure how well it worked until I put in more time but I played through the 8 guys in MM4 with no reset (which was the last game it messed up on). Also booted up 3 or 4 other games first try, so it has improved for the time being. I also am not pressing the carts down any more... was there ever a reason for this?.. seemed pointless even back in the day. 

Excellent!

Love your commitment to keeping all the OG stuff you have.

Just curious, did you BEND the pins as well...?  I found that to be very effective. 

As others mentioned.... The VCR was the "fun" part!! haha... But no, wasn't necessary. As I said, after I boiled and bent my pins, I no longer press the game into the "down" position to play it. Most/all games work first try. If not, reseating the game usually does the trick. 

Or it's the actually game that I need to clean more/better. All that spit/chips/pop from kids blowing into them is usually the issue 

Edited March 8, 2023 by AirVillain

[MrWunderful | 2,927]

After I fully clean a game and polish the pins with brasso, they generally start up first time everytime, even on multiple different front loaders. Even ones that havent been boiled. I wonder if pcb cleanliness/ surface has a decent amount to do with it too. 

[docile tapeworm | 4,204]

1 hour ago, MrWunderful said:

After I fully clean a game and polish the pins with brasso, they generally start up first time everytime, even on multiple different front loaders. Even ones that havent been boiled. I wonder if pcb cleanliness/ surface has a decent amount to do with it too. 

I’ve heard brasso is to abrasive. I use the vinyl eraser and if it needs more I go with the stove top cleaner 

[Tulpa | 3,526]

26 minutes ago, docile tapeworm said:

I’ve heard brasso is to abrasive. I use the vinyl eraser and if it needs more I go with the stove top cleaner 

FTW

[MrWunderful | 2,927]

24 minutes ago, docile tapeworm said:

I’ve heard brasso is to abrasive. I use the vinyl eraser and if it needs more I go with the stove top cleaner 

It is, but I only use it once so Im not worried. I only use it on carts that don’t start up first time and after alcohol cleaning.
 

 If you use it constantly i could see it being a problem wearing off a bit of brass coating on the pins. 

[a3quit4s | 4,121]

I only used brasso when the IPA by itself or the pencil eraser and IPA didn’t work. Actually it wasn’t even Brasso, I used mothers mag and aluminum polish but it was pretty much the same thing. I say used because I don’t even have it on the workbench anymore, most have got lost in the move. 

Edited March 8, 2023 by a3quit4s

[Tanooki | 4,943]

What is this fantasy stuff about the top loader being unreliable?  The only time they would ever is from direct or indirect (crusty dirty or worse pin on pin slot) contact.  The only real failing those ever had was the crap RF lack of a filter that did the jail bars.  I guess some people like to just stand out and use outlier stories as fact?  Sure it turned to sex jokes but it is right, a dirty game is like a STD, it spreads.  Always been my rule since the mid 90s, take in a second hand game, it’s stripped and cleaned before use, and as such never had a problem, ever.  It is just common sense or maybe that’s it people lack common sense?

[darkchylde28 | 1,546]

4 hours ago, Tanooki said:

What is this fantasy stuff about the top loader being unreliable?  The only time they would ever is from direct or indirect (crusty dirty or worse pin on pin slot) contact.  The only real failing those ever had was the crap RF lack of a filter that did the jail bars.  I guess some people like to just stand out and use outlier stories as fact?  Sure it turned to sex jokes but it is right, a dirty game is like a STD, it spreads.  Always been my rule since the mid 90s, take in a second hand game, it’s stripped and cleaned before use, and as such never had a problem, ever.  It is just common sense or maybe that’s it people lack common sense?

Who said the top loader was unreliable?  I don't recall anyone saying that, nor can I find anyone even inferring it when trying to dig back through the thread.  Some of us were commenting about all the belabored moaning about the very-preventable and very-curable reliability issues that the toaster/front loader suffered, but nobody said a top loader was unreliable.  Perhaps you misread my thoughts about the potential dangers of doing a "tower of power" when running NES games in an AV Famicom, or how wobbly such a stack can get in similar loading systems?

You're right, the real failing of the top loader was not having composite as well as having awful RF that caused jail bars to appear in the video.  Having issues with the original Game Genie could be considered another one, seeing as it was possible to damage or even break the cartridge connector with one if you were careless (or determined) enough.

[Dr. Morbis | 2,091]

2 hours ago, darkchylde28 said:

Who said the top loader was unreliable?  I don't recall anyone saying that, nor can I find anyone even inferring it when trying to dig back through the thread.

EDIT - never mind; I thought you had quoted someone else....

Edited March 9, 2023 by Dr. Morbis

[Link | 2,721]

2 hours ago, darkchylde28 said:

You're right, the real failing of the top loader was not having composite as well as having awful RF that caused jail bars to appear in the video.  Having issues with the original Game Genie could be considered another one, seeing as it was possible to damage or even break the cartridge connector with one if you were careless (or determined) enough.

I agree that the video output is disappointing on the toploader, but it was a $50 system. They were dominant in the market and offering a budget item to catch the low end. It wasn't bad business. And I'm sure they didn't mind breaking Game Genie compatibility. 

[MrWunderful | 2,927]

11 hours ago, Tulpa said:

FTW

I used to use an eraser on PCBs prior to brasso at first, but about 600 carts in it was taking too long on problem carts to:

clean

test 

disassemble

clean pcb with eraser

re-assemble

test

disassemble

clean with brasso/ alcohol

re-assemble

test

 

and there were too many that needed deeper cleaning i just started skipping eraser. Now everything starts up first time, everytime. 
 

Found myself using the eraser far more on exterior of carts for stickers/adhesive etc. which is kind of a secret weapon

[Tanooki | 4,943]

@darkchylde28 Maybe, I haven't had a computer I could use for 5 days (huge storm killed the power state wide) so I was using my cramped phone and an apple bluetooth keyboard to get by.

Over the years I've had probably 3-4 top loaders I've kept, a few others I traded/sold off.  The ones I did keep, the first was just lucky, it didn't have the bars and no idea why.  The second did, so I had a RCA modded and a weird stereo separation style wheel in the rear to split the audio which did wonders, and the final is the one I keep now with the HiDefNES Kit installed and it'll die with me whether it or I go first.   While I do like the original, and I have one kept in its box, I don't fancy putting up with the finickiness of it even when it is clean and happy as it still can get testy.

And @Link is dead on the nose with that, they loved breaking game genie I'm sure, so of course they did a mail away freebie adapter for it of course if I remember right.

[MrWunderful | 2,927]

@Tulpa  @docile tapeworm got some weimans stovetop cleaner today to give it a shot, hopefully its better than brasso. How did you guys hear about it?

[Tulpa | 3,526]

Someone on NA mentioned it, and it worked on a Xexyz cart I had that was garbled.

Just a little dab on a q-tip, then wipe across the pins back and forth to cover, then a thorough wipedown with alcohol.