What should constitute as a "First Print" of a game?

[RH | 4,903]

After reading through the The Last of Us First Print discussion thread, I started to have my own thoughts on First Prints and what should be defined as a "First Print" for a game when classifying for master lists and possibly grading.  Here are some of the thoughts I've had about what it could be a bit nuanced.

• I could see there being rare cases where a game is about to launch and some game printing facilities can't meet demand intended for day one, so the company runs a second batch from a second disc making company.  If, by chance, minor changes are made to the cover art, 2x versions could be created and shipped to the holding facility before launch day of the game.  If that inventory is kind of mixed, two variants could ship Day-1 and both versions could be considered "First Print", especially if there's no way of  discerning which batch was printed and assembled first.  This could be even more difficult if two versions of slip inserts or boxes were printed, combined and then assembled into the final item with the case and game.
• Same thoughts apply to disc games.  They all have content printed on the disc, so what if print runs from two separate facilities are made to meet expected demand?
• Variations for two different printing facilities may also make sense because for QA, companies often make variations on markings of items for each manufacturing round.  Lot codes and such are added so that if somethings screwed up, they can trace back.  This further enforced that if any game has to be manufactured in two or more facilities, they may be Day-1 variations used for QA markings and all are valid "First Prints", all though the are variable.
• Now a different thought--starting back in the GameCube/PS2 era, places like Target and Wal-Mart starting working with games makers to integrate minor differences in the games so that they had an "Exclusive" version.  Many of these were launched Day-1.  So... A Target copy of a game, maybe a Wal-Mart version and you ole standard version may all be "First Print" copies, but are obvious variants.  To further obfuscate the issue, if one of these companies had the rights to order multiple rounds of exclusive copies, there could be variants within one specific game title that was exclusive to a specific retailer.  This means determining the "First Print" those titles might make the process even more difficult.

And there could be other scenarios!  So for classification purposes, how do we define a "First Print"?  Should the assumed distinction exclusively mean a standard copy only, ignoring the retailer exclusives?  How about if multiple variants are shipped on launch day?  Are both marked as "First Print", should the community arbitrarily argue eternally of which one is the "legit" first print, should you consider the game lacking a categorically known first print and it be known that the distinction isn't worth making, at least for the closest known variants to the launch date?

So, what do you guys think? 

[Code Monkey | 2,010]

Youre confusing first print with first release. There can only be one first print of a game, it was the one that got printed first.

[RH | 4,903]

Just now, Code Monkey said:

Youre confusing first print with first release. There can only be one first print of a game, it was the one that got printed first.

But read some of those comments.  Hypothetically, let's assume the Standard, Target and Wal-Mart variants were all sent to the printers at the same time.  To further nuance the issue, lets assume if we could track down to the day/hour each version was printed (which we can't) maybe there were variations on the discs and the case slips.  What if the inserts for were printed in the Target, Standard, Wal-Mart order, but the disc manufacturer(s) printed them in Standard, Wal-Mart, Target order?

Would the first print be which ever was assembled first?  Would you prioritize the slip sheet over the disc, or vice versa?  Would you not care and just always assume the "standard" copy is the one to be considered "First Print"?  First print to me means literally the first one to be printed, but since we often can only know which copies were released on day one in stores, things get muddied.

It is different if the retailers got their exclusive copies days after the initial release.  However, if all of these versions were released day one, I still would consider an actual "First Print" which ever of the variants was printed first. But again, how can you know that?  Game makers and manufacturers don't release those details and is some of those nuanced cases, they may not know since they outsource the making of all the components that make up a released game.

[DefaultGen | 5,405]

I kind of ignore trying to rigorously defining it. I try to get the earliest/coolest variant if that's what I'm after. There are games that had simultaneous Made in USA/Made in Japan releases on day one, but come on, I want the Made in Japan. Everyone knows Japan is cooler.

For things like the Target/Walmart variants you mentioned, personally I like those as a side thing, but if I was buying one copy of a game I'd want the normal clean black label copy.

For the vast majority of games we don't know the nitty gritty details and variants or put intentional blinders on to simplify collecting. There's """one""" """first print""" (airiest of air quotes on both of those) Mario Kart 64 variant for example. Look there's even a website that tells me that there's just one first print!

https://standardgaming.com/blogs/variant-guides/mario-kart-64-n64-graded-video-game-variant-guide

The K-A player's choice is the "second print"!

Except when you open Mario Kart 64s up, there are tons of revisions. Literally the first picture I pulled off Google shows 3 different PCBs from mid 1996-early 1997. Earlier copies split the game ROM onto two smaller chips for cost savings. The two single ROM PCBs are different types (NUS-01A-01 vs NUS-01A-02). All of this shit of course has date codes on top of that adding exponential complexity the closer you look. Calling any non-PC Mario Kart 64 a "first print" is a huge oversimplication.

I think "first print" is a worthwhile shorthand for games where people generally don't know or don't care about the nitty grittiest true earliest manufactured copy of the game. I just don't take the term super literally.

Side note, it's hilarious that in the sealed world Made in Japan 'first print' variants of many games can sell for huge premiums but the earlier actual Japanese copies sell for peanuts, lmaooo.

[DefaultGen | 5,405]

To be honest, because first print is basically shorthand for "the earliest major variant we're discussing right now", it doesn't bother me. What drives me crazy is when people take one guide as the absolute law (e.g. Wata black box spreadshet) and say they have a 4th print or 7th print when there's like a hundred different things that could be considered a variant. What the fuck is a 7th print Super Mario Bros?? The game was in print for a decade and you think there were only a dozen print runs ever??

[Code Monkey | 2,010]

2 hours ago, RH said:

But read some of those comments.  Hypothetically, let's assume the Standard, Target and Wal-Mart variants were all sent to the printers at the same time.  To further nuance the issue, lets assume if we could track down to the day/hour each version was printed (which we can't) maybe there were variations on the discs and the case slips.  What if the inserts for were printed in the Target, Standard, Wal-Mart order, but the disc manufacturer(s) printed them in Standard, Wal-Mart, Target order?

Would the first print be which ever was assembled first?  Would you prioritize the slip sheet over the disc, or vice versa?  Would you not care and just always assume the "standard" copy is the one to be considered "First Print"?  First print to me means literally the first one to be printed, but since we often can only know which copies were released on day one in stores, things get muddied.

It is different if the retailers got their exclusive copies days after the initial release.  However, if all of these versions were released day one, I still would consider an actual "First Print" which ever of the variants was printed first. But again, how can you know that?  Game makers and manufacturers don't release those details and is some of those nuanced cases, they may not know since they outsource the making of all the components that make up a released game.

You're getting confused again. You're trying to define which set of 5 assembled items was printed first when that's impossible, the printing is done one item at a time. You can define the first box print, the first manual print and the first cartridge print but you cannot determine which conglomerate was printed first as a whole, they're not printed as sets.

And you absolutely can determine which day the boxes / manuals were printed for some systems, most licensed NES boxes and manuals have the exact date of manufacturing printed on them. The Left Bros. variant of Super Mario Bros. 3 is considered to be the first print but there are 3 unique print runs with individual manufacturing dates with this variant and they were weeks apart. I have 2 Left Bros. copies graded by Wata as first print and neither of them are the first printing. They're more of a first variant.

[RH | 4,903]

7 minutes ago, Code Monkey said:

You're getting confused again. You're trying to define which set of 5 assembled items was printed first when that's impossible, the printing is done one item at a time. You can define the first box print, the first manual print and the first cartridge print but you cannot determine which conglomerate was printed first as a whole, they're not printed as sets.

And you absolutely can determine which day the boxes / manuals were printed for some systems, most licensed NES boxes and manuals have the exact date of manufacturing printed on them. The Left Bros. variant of Super Mario Bros. 3 is considered to be the first print but there are 3 unique print runs with individual manufacturing dates with this variant and they were weeks apart. I have 2 Left Bros. copies graded by Wata as first print and neither of them are the first printing. They're more of a first variant.

I do appreciate your input, and you are going in the direction of which I'm discussing.  I bring up these questions, in light of my comments and yours, because places like WATA like to slap phrases like "First Print" on games and even you have an excellent video talking about print releases of black box NES games.  Albeit, you are strictly talking about the boxes so that adds to your point.

Furthermore, you are also talking about the NES.  Good for Nintendo for printing lot codes on boxes and other markings on their games, PCBs, manuals and inserts!  That's great.  But what about the PS line-up.  How about Xbox or GameCube?

Again, if we want to get to the bottom of which one should be distinguished as any "first" for grading or whatever, how do we do that?  Maybe the answer is that we shouldn't.  That's fine by me.  But I'm still interested on your final opinion and others.

[Code Monkey | 2,010]

7 minutes ago, RH said:

I do appreciate your input, and you are going in the direction of which I'm discussing.  I bring up these questions, in light of my comments and yours, because places like WATA like to slap phrases like "First Print" on games and even you have an excellent video talking about print releases of black box NES games.  Albeit, you are strictly talking about the boxes so that adds to your point.

Furthermore, you are also talking about the NES.  Good for Nintendo for printing lot codes on boxes and other markings on their games, PCBs, manuals and inserts!  That's great.  But what about the PS line-up.  How about Xbox or GameCube?

Again, if we want to get to the bottom of which one should be distinguished as any "first" for grading or whatever, how do we do that?  Maybe the answer is that we shouldn't.  That's fine by me.  But I'm still interested on your final opinion and others.

I don't think we can. You would need to specify the first print of the rear cover art, the front booklet, the jewel case, the disc and the artwork onto the disc. The best you can do is what Wata did and try to determine which was first available to obtain as a set.

[YOURTURN | 1,256]

2 hours ago, Code Monkey said:

You're getting confused again. You're trying to define which set of 5 assembled items was printed first when that's impossible, the printing is done one item at a time. You can define the first box print, the first manual print and the first cartridge print but you cannot determine which conglomerate was printed first as a whole, they're not printed as sets.

And you absolutely can determine which day the boxes / manuals were printed for some systems, most licensed NES boxes and manuals have the exact date of manufacturing printed on them. The Left Bros. variant of Super Mario Bros. 3 is considered to be the first print but there are 3 unique print runs with individual manufacturing dates with this variant and they were weeks apart. I have 2 Left Bros. copies graded by Wata as first print and neither of them are the first printing. They're more of a first variant.

Actually, there is a difference between a "first print" and a "first to be printed" when it comes to production runs. Because the term "first print" is often short for "the first product to be printed". With changes to dates, inserts, etc. often being tied to which region/store the game is being shipped to.

Kind of like how some first print copies of certain books say "first print" but still have different printing dates. Because in the end the first to be printed from that print run will be no different than the last. Outside the realm of any info the publisher has to offer.

Edited January 26, 2023 by FenrirZero

[Code Monkey | 2,010]

43 minutes ago, FenrirZero said:

Actually, there is a difference between a "first print" and a "first to be printed" when it comes to production runs. Because the term "first print" is often short for "the first product to be printed". With changes to dates, inserts, etc. often being tied to which region/store the game is being shipped to.

Kind of like how some first print copies of certain books say "first print" but still have different printing dates. Because in the end the first to be printed from that print run will be no different than the last. Outside the realm of any info the publisher has to offer.

Books go by copyright date on the inside page so once a change happens in the printing, the copyright date changes and it's no longer first print.

[Tanooki | 4,933]

Maybe someone already tread this, but maybe I'm being more basic about this but it seems I think to work best with printed goods like books.

There's 1st print, 2nd print, etc...

Why do they do this?  The item sold through enough that demand dictated firing up another batch after the fact.  Maybe it wasn't just popularity, but a defect was found like print typing errors (think the floating i nonsense on FF7 PSX case back art.)  Maybe it's a bit more severe of a defect that damages or ruins the experience (missing page, or the Turok Rage Wars N64 issue.)  There are various reasons and those to books do apply equally so to video games.

Rage Wars would be your defect, FF7 would be your minor issue in print, and well the way Atlus keeps the hype train and high prices of their goods up is running repeated smaller prints of the game as inventories go and they do repeated smaller ones until it seems too risky.  Or you could have some minor typo or issue, and you get your -1 and -2 and so on with NES/SNES/Gameboy games.

 

To me, that's where you have your first print, second, and so on.  Sustained demand and defect.

Not just because they kept the pressing going from February into March to run another 100K copies of whatever, nor because KMart got their own slip cover on a GC game or because Walmart was only allowed to retail DS Chibi Robo.  Another would be like where you have Code of Princess 3DS where they did a large run but the first X copies of the same run also came in an outer box with an audio and art CD too as a thanks for buying immediately...they're still in the same run.  Square-Enix did this too with DS Chrono Trigger as the first many thousands of copies had a small reprint of the Toriyama poster art the SNES had but they also kept on printing long beyond that without changing any data/sticker/manual/case art of the same original run.  The only way to know on that buy sealed, or buy from a trusted first owner who can prove it.

[YOURTURN | 1,256]

1 hour ago, Code Monkey said:

Books go by copyright date on the inside page so once a change happens in the printing, the copyright date changes and it's no longer first print.

Yare yare. Being both the son of a bibliophile, and being one prior to getting video games myself, I beg to differ. 

As AbeBooks says on the subject (link included): "Identifying a first edition is no simple matter. There are thousands of publishers and they use a large variety of methods, which are often changed, to define first editions.

The publisher may actually state the words ‘first edition’ or ‘first printing’ on the copyright page. Another common method of identification is the number line – that’s a line of numbers on the copyright page. Usually, if a one is present in the line then it’s a first edition. This style has been used since World War II."

Literally meaning that with printings, it's all about the production runs. And with video games, none of us literally can say which printing is a first, etc. without any data from the publishers themselves. All because just seeing a serial number on an NES booklet does not guarantee that it is the same case with all NES booklets.

Thus going back to what the experts have said on this subject.

And that is the first to be produced does not mean every one after that is not part of that production run. With publishers defining this with the use of their systems, which is the key for us to truly know which is which.

Because, again, a print run is more about the running changes a publisher makes. And with them, their definition ranges from the above mentioned changes to (the case of my last two acquisitions) either the omission of an "exclusive" sticker or a completely different serial number. Stuff I always looked out for when I hunted down first printings.

But again, I also used to follow this blog (link included) when I was trying to rebuild my Dragon Quest collection. After I found out that more recent games had both standard and limited printings be done at the same time. 

[JamesRobot | 5,800]

Oh it's super easy to tell.  Observe:

[YOURTURN | 1,256]

2 hours ago, Tanooki said:

To me, that's where you have your first print, second, and so on.  Sustained demand and defect.

When it comes to Japanese console games, that tends to be the difference between their first printings and later printings. But for CM's sake, I'll say "release" instead. Because even the word "literally" can be be be taken as a literal term. 

Anywho... Dragon Quest VII: Eden no Senshi-tachi has four releases. And fits one part of your examples.

• Release #1 = SLPM-86500-1 = The error version that Enix offered a replacement to those who bought it.
• Release #2 = SCPS-45504-5 = The correct version that ended up replacing the original.

The remaining two (PS One Books & Ultimate Hits) are priced down releases that are easy to differentiate from these two. And I say that because the difference is tied to the JAN codes that also appear on the obi.

Where as Final Fantasy Collection only appears to have three JAN codes. Two of them (SCPS-45388-90 & SLPS-01948-50) are both standard prints that appear to have separate release dates. With the one I recently got (again) has a JAN code that coincides with the Anniversary Package JAN code (SLPS-01945-7).

Which puts up the question: "Which is the official first release: The standard or the Anniversary set?"

Which goes back to what @RH said while @DefaultGen showed us images from "Video Games Gone Wild". The only people who can say what is a first anything are those who have said data. Simply because in both North America and Europe, for example, there have been talks of regional changes for toys and video games.

Then again... I am now wondering if those "early purchase" sticker prints I like are truly first releases. 

[RH | 4,903]

9 hours ago, JamesRobot said:

Oh it's super easy to tell.  Observe:

Ah, mods close the topic.  Question definitively answered! 

[Link | 2,712]

Anything before there is a break in production or a noted revision.

Edited January 27, 2023 by Link

[TDIRunner | 2,740]

I define the "first print" as the very first game off the assembly line.  The one and only.  Everything else was printed second or later.

[DarkTone | 984]

Then what the hell is this?

[Gloves | 11,779]

15 minutes ago, DarkTone said:

Then what the hell is this?

Print Zero! The start of the printdemic!

[RH | 4,903]

Found this online by some joker.  Seems relevant.

 

[Gloves | 11,779]

29 minutes ago, RH said:

Found this online by some joker.  Seems relevant.

 

I've only just now watched THIS video and now my feelings are hurt @DefaultGen:

 

[RH | 4,903]

1 minute ago, Gloves said:

I've only just now watched THIS video and now my feelings are hurt @DefaultGen:

 

Yeah, I watched that one too before positng.  Hahahahaha. Perfect.

[GPX | 1,369]

22 hours ago, DarkTone said:

Then what the hell is this?

That would be the advanced prototype variant, undefined print edition.

[GPX | 1,369]

My thoughts on this topic:

- “first prints” basically mean first production line.

- you have separate prints/revisions for the cart, manual, box and the factory seals. 

- usually there would be indicators to mark what print versions there are, but I don’t think this is always the case, such that different print versions for some games may be undetectable.

- you can have the exact box, cart but a newer print version of the manual. You can have the exact box, manual but a newer print version of the cart. You can also have newer print versions of the extra pamphlets! So there’s all sorts of combos for newer print versions with slight subtleties easily missed as a collector.

- as a sealed collector, the first print seal may actually contain various print versions of the internal contents.

TLDR - its a damn mess trying to figure out the entire friggin’ production line of all the print variants!

[oops | 85]

first print needs to be easily identifiable. Some people say first print when there was no difference identifiers over many print runs. You must go title by title and more often than not agree with the majority