Do you need to be an expert?

[Bearcat-Doug | 5,105]

Should you have to beat a game on hard/expert to get the full ending? I honestly think it defeats the purpose of having an adjustable difficulty setting. I like to push myself and try to complete games on the toughest difficulty, but should you be forced to? Edit: I'm mainly referring to games from the 8 and 16 bit eras where you couldn't just look the ending up online and beating the game was the only option at the time.

Edited October 16, 2022 by Bearcat-Doug

[BortLicensePlate | 652]

I say no. I personally like a good challenge but I don’t think people who don’t want the challenge should lose out on the experience. I think Undertale handles this well. The story wraps up nicely but there’s extra content for the more hardcore players afterwards

[Gloves | 11,779]

I think it's a valid method of gating content. And if you can't git gud, there's YouTube. 

[Dr. Morbis | 2,088]

I think beating a game on the hardest difficulty should be a personal achievement that you can go after if you want to, and would vastly prefer just one ending.  But if they do put in different endings, that's not the end of the world.  The only situation I really despise is when they don't tell you that there is a better ending, like if you beat the game on normal and get what appears to be full closure on the game/story.  If they must put in different endings for different modes, I really appreciate it when the developer actually says "good job, but why don't you try Hard mode..." or something like that.  At least then I know I'm not truly done.  Finding out you haven't really beaten a game that you thought you had beaten years ago is the worst!!!

[Bearcat-Doug | 5,105]

1 hour ago, Gloves said:

I think it's a valid method of gating content. And if you can't git gud, there's YouTube.

There's definitely no more shameful experience than having to look up the ending of a game on YouTube because you weren't good enough to get the full ending yourself.

[Gloves | 11,779]

1 minute ago, Bearcat-Doug said:

There's definitely no more shameful experience than having to look up the ending of a game on YouTube because you weren't good enough to get the full ending yourself.

Never done it myself, I ain't no scrub.

[Bearcat-Doug | 5,105]

5 minutes ago, Gloves said:

Never done it myself, I ain't no scrub.

I haven't either due to the level of personal shame that would be involved. Also, YouTube wasn't even launched until 2005 so I was long past the point of trying to look up the endings of games that I played as a kid when there was no internet. Back in the old days if you wanted to see the ending you had to beat the game.

Edited October 15, 2022 by Bearcat-Doug

[rdrunner | 422]

I voted no, though I can see some exceptions, like an extra final boss or cutscene for beating hard mode or getting 100%.

In general though, if you beat the game, you should get a real ending, credits and all.  It's ok if "try hard mode" appears after that, but don't punish casual players that just earned something.

[Reed Rothchild | 9,533]

2 hours ago, Bearcat-Doug said:

There's definitely no more shameful experience than having to look up the ending of a game on YouTube because you weren't good enough to get the full ending yourself.

I'll do it.  I got shit to do, I don't have time for your bullshit, game!

[Lynda Monica | 350]

Balance the game correctly the first time.

[phart010 | 1,707]

Meritocracy. If you put in the extra time to master the game, you get a little extra reward. If you don’t like it, watch the extra stuff on YouTube 

[Bearcat-Doug | 5,105]

1 hour ago, phart010 said:

Meritocracy. If you put in the extra time to master the game, you get a little extra reward. If you don’t like it, watch the extra stuff on YouTube 

I guess I should have been more specific in the original post. I was mainly referring to 8 and 16 bit pre YouTube era games where beating the game was the only option outside of maybe seeing the ending in a guide or a magazine.

[phart010 | 1,707]

45 minutes ago, Bearcat-Doug said:

I guess I should have been more specific in the original post. I was mainly referring to 8 and 16 bit pre YouTube era games where beating the game was the only option outside of maybe seeing the ending in a guide or a magazine.

Even so, I still think it’s appropriate to do a little extra for someone that has mastered the game. Without the bonus content, there is no incentive for the player to try harder

Edited October 16, 2022 by phart010

[DreamCuPS | 18]

No at all, for me. At least, as long as you can choose the difficult level. And to be fair, I think super hard games are, as well, hard to enjoy. 

[Tanooki | 4,934]

No it's an aggravating cowardly act to force that much personal abuse to get the actual ending, or the extended "real" ending or whatever the sort.  I put that garbage at the same level as like where a game has a timer and if you miss the timer (and we're talking an hours long game, nothing brief) and just get the bad ending or the mediocre ending.  The worst even in that scenario would be Winback, about 2/3 of the game in you have to get there by just a few hours, and if you don't, you get the fail ending despite still having to play it all and only find out about that after the fact wasting your valuable time for nothing.  That is also a finish it on hard mode mechanic of the worst kind.

[cj_robot | 542]

I definitely appreciate getting something extra when I beat a game on hard mode. Having different difficulty settings wasn't really a thing in the 8-bit era though, was it?

Also, YouTube may not have existed yet, but Game Genie was a thing. I saw whatever ending I wanted to LOL

[fcgamer | 4,723]

These days I don't game enough to want to play difficult modes for hours on end just to get a special ending.

[mbd39 | 2,022]

1 hour ago, cj_robot said:

I definitely appreciate getting something extra when I beat a game on hard mode. Having different difficulty settings wasn't really a thing in the 8-bit era though, was it?

Double Dragon 2 is an 8-bit example. You have to play on Supreme Master difficulty to get the final boss and real ending.

 

[mbd39 | 2,022]

And having different difficulties was common back then. Even most Atari 2600 games have difficulty settings.

 

[cj_robot | 542]

43 minutes ago, mbd39 said:

And having different difficulties was common back then. Even most Atari 2600 games have difficulty settings.

 

Ah yes, that is true. I remember now that almost every 7800 game had difficulty selection right on the title screen. Don't remember it very much on NES games (with some notable exceptions like DD2 as you mentioned), although I guess many games did do that thing where you beat the game and it just starts up a second loop with higher difficulty.

Definitely seemed like it become much more common again in the 16-bit era (and probably more NES games during this time period as well).

[mbd39 | 2,022]

1 minute ago, cj_robot said:

Ah yes, that is true. I remember now that almost every 7800 game had difficulty selection right on the title screen. Don't remember it very much on NES games (with some notable exceptions like DD2 as you mentioned), although I guess many games did do that thing where you beat the game and it just starts up a second loop with higher difficulty.

Definitely seemed like it become much more common again in the 16-bit era (and probably more NES games during this time period as well).

Some early black box games have different A and B difficulties like Donkey Kong, Mario Bros. and Kung Fu.

[Bearcat-Doug | 5,105]

On 10/15/2022 at 7:57 PM, Reed Rothchild said:

I'll do it.  I got shit to do, I don't have time for your bullshit, game!

If you watch the YouTube videos on double speed you save even more time!

[Dr. Morbis | 2,088]

13 hours ago, mbd39 said:

Some early black box games have different A and B difficulties like Donkey Kong, Mario Bros. and Kung Fu.

That's what I was going to say: the NES started out with the vast majority of games having a normal and a hard mode (usually named A and B) during the black box era but that kind of fell by the wayside once third party developers entered the fray.  But even at its height, the NES had a small percentage of games released with difficulty select throughout the length of its run...

[Ankos | 441]

I'd be more receptive to a hardmode special ending if I have to unlock hardmode. If I am given a choice at the beginning of a game, and all I am told is that it is a difficulty select, then I'd be a bit annoyed if I was told I chose wrong in the end. If hardmode was the reward for beating it on normal mode, then at least I wouldn't feel like the game wasted my time for no reason

[Bearcat-Doug | 5,105]

4 hours ago, Ankos said:

I'd be more receptive to a hardmode special ending if I have to unlock hardmode. If I am given a choice at the beginning of a game, and all I am told is that it is a difficulty select, then I'd be a bit annoyed if I was told I chose wrong in the end. If hardmode was the reward for beating it on normal mode, then at least I wouldn't feel like the game wasted my time for no reason

That was basically my thinking when I posted the question. I used to find it really annoying when the game was set on normal difficulty by default, but upon finishing the game all you get is a message saying "try a harder level next time" when you had no idea that it was necessary to see the ending.