American Politics / Current Events Thread

[MrWunderful | 2,927]

3 hours ago, arch_8ngel said:

What a cunt.

Vaginas are much tougher than Ted Cruz. He wouldnt stick up for his wife, or father and now licks the boots of the guy who insulted them both. I thought Texans were tough?

[arch_8ngel | 1,597]

27 minutes ago, MrWunderful said:

Vaginas are much tougher than Ted Cruz. He wouldnt stick up for his wife, or father and now licks the boots of the guy who insulted them both. I thought Texans were tough?

You're right.

Calling him a ball-sack would be much more accurate.

[Tulpa | 3,492]

5 hours ago, avatar! said:

WHY does Cruz still have a job?? Not that he works, why is he still taking home a paycheck on the backs of taxpayers?

 

It's been a headscratcher for me, but I think most are just looking at the R next to his name and pulling the lever.

[avatar! | 1,811]

22 minutes ago, Tulpa said:

It's been a headscratcher for me, but I think most are just looking at the R next to his name and pulling the lever.

I'm sure that's correct. Sad, Texas and this country deserves better than someone that would abandon the people while they are literally freezing...

[Californication | 1,477]

Someone should build a montage of all the ads saying to move to Texas for deregulation.

[avatar! | 1,811]

https://www.cnn.com/2021/02/18/politics/ted-cruz-cancun-texas-disaster-electricity-power-water/index.html

"I started having second thoughts almost the moment I sat down on the plane, because on the one hand, all of us who are parents have a responsibility to take care of our kids, take care of our family. That's something Texans have been doing across the state," said Cruz, who had said in an earlier statement that he flew to Mexico because his daughters had asked to take a trip and he was trying to be a "good dad." "But I also have a responsibility that I take very seriously for the state of Texas and frankly, leaving when so many Texans were hurting didn't feel right and so I changed my return flight and flew back on the first available flight I could take," Cruz continued.

 

I'm sure he started having second thoughts immediately - after he was caught running away with his pants down...

[Tulpa | 3,492]

30 minutes ago, ChickenTendas said:

Can someone explain QAnon to me? I've read a few articles on the theories but I can't seem to wrap my head around it. There's something about 4chan? And pedophiles? And something about a ring of cannibals? And I know lizard people are involved in that somehow.

There's also some relation to TikTok. Is that how something this wack reached so many people?

They're basically a subset of conspiracy theorists who overlap with sovereign citizens and others who hold similar beliefs.

Their theories shift so much with each setback that it's hard to keep track, but basically in October of 2017, posts by an anonymous person called "Q" started appearing on 4chan. They claimed to be a high ranking member of Trump's team, and would be posting in code about Trump's secret activities. QAnon became the name of people who watched for these posts (or more likely, watched for posts by people from 4chan who supposedly watched for Q, a giant game of telephone that led to a lot of conflicting information.) Q posts also popped up on other social media, but it was very fleeting.

The posts from Q are largely nonsensical and extremely vague, so interpretations can be applied to almost any event.

Q is likely several people, as the posting style seems to change from time to time. There's nothing to suggest that they have any status in government.

The theories range from a "deep state", a large group that had infiltrated the government through election fraud, Hollywood, and the mainstream media, all aiming to bring down the United States and oppress the American people in favor of socialism, illegal immigrants getting a free ride, and other nefarious activities. This evolved into the Democratic party being controlled by a cabal of pedophiles, cannibals, and satanists aiming to bring the second coming of Chairman Mao. Obama, Biden, Pelosi, AOC, and any other Democrat currently in the spotlight were said to be part of the cabal.

This has resulted in a literal cult that sprung up. They act to out members of the deep state, RINOs (Republicans in Name Only) and anyone else who even sort of disagrees with Trump. With the exception of Trump, they'll turn on anyone they formerly supported, such as Bill Barr, Pence, and Jeff Sessions, when those people don't act quick enough or effective enough to jail Democrats.

As for the predictions, the QAnon theorists and believers cling to any hope at the moment. When Biden won they election, they claimed the states wouldn't certify the votes. When the states did, they claimed the Republicans would send the real electors to vote. When that didn't happen, they claimed Pence would overturn the vote. When that didn't happen, they stormed the Capitol.

They were also holding hope that Trump would interrupt the Biden inauguration with the military and arrest every Democrat. Now they're saying Trump is still president and will be actually sworn in on March 4th (or the 20th, I've seen both) because every Constitutional amendment is invalid after the 14th Amendment (because reasons), and the old swearing in date is still in effect. This kind of comports to the sovereign citizen beliefs.

I can't wait to see what their next harebrained goalpost move is. Though I think it's starting to peter out. 

Edited February 19, 2021 by Tulpa

[MrWunderful | 2,927]

36 minutes ago, Tulpa said:

They're basically a subset of conspiracy theorists who overlap with sovereign citizens and others who hold similar beliefs.

Their theories shift so much with each setback that it's hard to keep track, but basically in October of 2017, posts by an anonymous person called "Q" started appearing on 4chan. They claimed to be a high ranking member of Trump's team, and would be posting in code about Trump's secret activities. QAnon became the name of people who watched for these posts (or more likely, watched for posts by people from 4chan who supposedly watched for Q, a giant game of telephone that led to a lot of conflicting information.) Q posts also popped up on other social media, but it was very fleeting.

The posts from Q are largely nonsensical and extremely vague, so interpretations can be applied to almost any event.

Q is likely several people, as the posting style seems to change from time to time. There's nothing to suggest that they have any status in government.

The theories range from a "deep state", a large group that had infiltrated the government through election fraud, Hollywood, and the mainstream media, all aiming to bring down the United States and oppress the American people in favor of socialism, illegal immigrants getting a free ride, and other nefarious activities. This evolved into the Democratic party being controlled by a cabal of pedophiles, cannibals, and satanists aiming to bring the second coming of Chairman Mao. Obama, Biden, Pelosi, AOC, and any other Democrat currently in the spotlight were said to be part of the cabal.

This has resulted in a literal cult that sprung up. They act to out members of the deep state, RINOs (Republicans in Name Only) and anyone else who even sort of disagrees with Trump. With the exception of Trump, they'll turn on anyone they formerly supported, such as Bill Barr, Pence, and Jeff Sessions, when those people don't act quick enough or effective enough to jail Democrats.

As for the predictions, the QAnon theorists and believers cling to any hope at the moment. When Biden won they election, they claimed the states wouldn't certify the votes. When the states did, they claimed the Republicans would send the real electors to vote. When that didn't happen, they claimed Pence would overturn the vote. When that didn't happen, they stormed the Capitol.

They were also holding hope that Trump would interrupt the Biden inauguration with the military and arrest every Democrat. Now they're saying Trump is still president and will be actually sworn in on March 4th (or the 20th, I've seen both) because every Constitutional amendment is invalid after the 14th Amendment (because reasons), and the old swearing in date is still in effect. This kind of comports to the sovereign citizen beliefs.

I can't wait to see what their next harebrained goalpost move is. Though I think it's starting to peter out. 

Imagine someone telling you that 20 years ago

[avatar! | 1,811]

Ted Cruz Left Behind His Dog Whose Name Is Snowflake Because of Course It Is

https://www.thewrap.com/ted-cruz-left-behind-his-dog-whose-name-is-snowflake-because-of-course-it-is/

 

Edited February 19, 2021 by avatar!

[Tulpa | 3,492]

Stumbled upon this:

https://conservativehardliner.com/why-civil-war-will-never-happen-and-why-third-party-stupid-idea

Pretty out there. Some choice quotes:

"When I say "the enemy", I don't mean some character you've never seen or met.  I mean YOUR leftist children.  I mean YOUR leftist parents, and YOUR leftist siblings.  Frankly, if you associate and coddle these enemies of our Republic, I mean YOU as well.

Stop giving aid and comfort to the enemy, otherwise, you're one of them."

[Reed Rothchild | 9,521]

28 minutes ago, Tulpa said:

Stumbled upon this:

https://conservativehardliner.com/why-civil-war-will-never-happen-and-why-third-party-stupid-idea

Pretty out there. Some choice quotes:

"When I say "the enemy", I don't mean some character you've never seen or met.  I mean YOUR leftist children.  I mean YOUR leftist parents, and YOUR leftist siblings.  Frankly, if you associate and coddle these enemies of our Republic, I mean YOU as well.

Stop giving aid and comfort to the enemy, otherwise, you're one of them."

Cult

You can't really hope to deprogram people either.

These people are also too stupid to realize that the only thing they've accomplished is isolating themselves from the only people who could love them.

Alas, their loss.

[MrWunderful | 2,927]

“No, your little pride and joy is a hardcore AntiFa-BLM supporting Marxist because you sent him to government schools to be brainwashed while you thought it was cute”

 

 

[Reed Rothchild | 9,521]

On 2/18/2021 at 6:54 PM, ChickenTendas said:

Can someone explain QAnon to me? I've read a few articles on the theories but I can't seem to wrap my head around it. There's something about 4chan? And pedophiles? And something about a ring of cannibals? And I know lizard people are involved in that somehow.

There's also some relation to TikTok. Is that how something this wack reached so many people?

Three word explanation: gullible White trash

[Californication | 1,477]

I gotta say, Biden is washing out a little quick. 1. dropped down from 2K stimulus to $1.4K 2. Fighting college debt reduction 3. Recognizing fake/unelected leader Guiado, 4. Accepting Jerusalem as capital of Israel, 5. Noy pushing SEC to do anything about blatant market manipulation, 6. Accepting business leaders request to remove $15 minimum wage from stimulus package.

This is why Bernie was the best candidate.

[Reed Rothchild | 9,521]

21 minutes ago, Californication said:

4. Accepting Jerusalem as capital of Israel

Did I miss something?  Is that a hot button issue again 

[Californication | 1,477]

52 minutes ago, Reed Rothchild said:

Did I miss something?  Is that a hot button issue again 

The new part of the issue is that Biden is normalazing Trumps terrible choices.

 

[Tulpa | 3,492]

So I'm seeing a few posts online regarding the Texas energy crisis and the skyrocketing bills. Some are wondering why it's not criminal for the bills to be that high.

Texas deregulated the energy industry there, so it is just market forces.

I guess an unregulated market is just fine until it bites you in the ass.

[avatar! | 1,811]

Ah, the golden golden irony of it all...

Edited February 22, 2021 by avatar!

[Link | 2,709]

On 2/17/2021 at 1:08 PM, Reed Rothchild said:

A handout?  

If government isn't supposed to be responsible for infastructure what exactly are they supposed to be in charge of?

 

[CodysGameRoom | 2,008]

On 2/19/2021 at 10:06 PM, Californication said:

I gotta say, Biden is washing out a little quick. 1. dropped down from 2K stimulus to $1.4K 2. Fighting college debt reduction 3. Recognizing fake/unelected leader Guiado, 4. Accepting Jerusalem as capital of Israel, 5. Noy pushing SEC to do anything about blatant market manipulation, 6. Accepting business leaders request to remove $15 minimum wage from stimulus package.

This is why Bernie was the best candidate.

Most of ths isn't surprising considering Biden is basically a moderate. 

[arch_8ngel | 1,597]

On 2/19/2021 at 11:06 PM, Californication said:

I gotta say, Biden is washing out a little quick. 1. dropped down from 2K stimulus to $1.4K 2. Fighting college debt reduction 3. Recognizing fake/unelected leader Guiado, 4. Accepting Jerusalem as capital of Israel, 5. Noy pushing SEC to do anything about blatant market manipulation, 6. Accepting business leaders request to remove $15 minimum wage from stimulus package.

This is why Bernie was the best candidate.

On (1) -- from the time the $600 second checks were issued, pretty much the only line of discussion I ever saw about "$2k" was that there was going to be an additional $1.4k to true-up to the originally proposed $2k.

On (2) -- I have mixed feelings about it.  Even $10k loan elimination is a huge boon to borrowers.

On (6) -- while I definitely think minimum wage increases are due, I have fundamental disagreements with shoe-horning them into other high-priority bills rather than debating them on their own merits.

 

 

EDIT:  and in the wake of Trump, I would much rather have moderates in office that can draw down whatever support Trump is trying to muster for 2024 either for himself for a chosen successor.

(though I'd much rather have moderates in office, in general :P)

Edited February 22, 2021 by arch_8ngel

[Californication | 1,477]

27 minutes ago, arch_8ngel said:

On (1) -- from the time the $600 second checks were issued, pretty much the only line of discussion I ever saw about "$2k" was that there was going to be an additional $1.4k to true-up to the originally proposed $2k.

On (2) -- I have mixed feelings about it.  Even $10k loan elimination is a huge boon to borrowers.

On (6) -- while I definitely think minimum wage increases are due, I have fundamental disagreements with shoe-horning them into other high-priority bills rather than debating them on their own merits.

 

 

EDIT:  and in the wake of Trump, I would much rather have moderates in office that can draw down whatever support Trump is trying to muster for 2024 either for himself for a chosen successor.

(though I'd much rather have moderates in office, in general :P)

1. A true up wasn't what Biden pushed in Georgia. And the fact that It's an immaterial amount on a 1.9 T bill makes it an even dumber concession. Whether the rest gets passed or not the dems are going to get beaten up politically, it's basicslly an unforced error.

2. The economy is in bad shape and the debt forgiveness would be a major bottom up push of the economy whose effects would eclipse the first stimulus. Even if we are talking about 10K, Biden is refusing to pass it through executive ordee. So he is saying he would sign in IF it make it through congress. So if he wants a bill to go through congress why is he setting theblimit to 10K. The whole thing makes no sense except for the fact that he does not want to diminish any revenue streams for the banks or u.s. govt. 

And I disagree with the premise that "moderate " policies will turn out the vote for Dems. Unless your definition of moderate is the center of the U.S. which would mean medicare for all and student debt forgiveness since a majority of Americans want both of those.

[arch_8ngel | 1,597]

31 minutes ago, Californication said:

1. A true up wasn't what Biden pushed in Georgia. And the fact that It's an immaterial amount on a 1.9 T bill makes it an even dumber concession. Whether the rest gets passed or not the dems are going to get beaten up politically, it's basicslly an unforced error.

2. The economy is in bad shape and the debt forgiveness would be a major bottom up push of the economy whose effects would eclipse the first stimulus. Even if we are talking about 10K, Biden is refusing to pass it through executive ordee. So he is saying he would sign in IF it make it through congress. So if he wants a bill to go through congress why is he setting theblimit to 10K. The whole thing makes no sense except for the fact that he does not want to diminish any revenue streams for the banks or u.s. govt. 

And I disagree with the premise that "moderate " policies will turn out the vote for Dems. Unless your definition of moderate is the center of the U.S. which would mean medicare for all and student debt forgiveness since a majority of Americans want both of those.

On (1), I'd have to see some quotes to refresh my memory, but I thought that from the beginning the discussion was around the "second stimulus payment" being $2k, total.  $600 was what we got, and the expectation -- from my understanding - was always around $1400 being a true-up to $2k.

On (2) -- the government simply freezing interest accrual and offering forbearance of payments in the SHORT TERM frees up cash flow in the same way as wiping out the debt entirely, for virtually zero "cost" in the budget.  In all seriousness, there is going to be a lot of resentment going around on that issue, no matter what direction it goes, and there is real risk of exacerbating the on-going culture war.  There are real structural problems in how school costs are incentivized that are not solved by a one time payout, and frankly, tying a clearing out of the existing debts to some longer term reforms, as a discussion separate from pandemic stimulus is a conversation worth having.

From the standpoint of pandemic relief -- simply eliminating interest and offering a halt of payments solves the IMMEDIATE concern.

 

 

On "moderates" -- I think medicare-for-all has better legs to stand on than student debt forgiveness. People make (hopefully informed) choices about the degree they pursue and the school debts they take on -- people have VERY LITTLE choice when it comes to insurance premiums or the cost of medical providers (even for "elective" procedures, which is often just a term for preventative maintenance for a condition that won't kill you yet).  There is a level of obfuscation with medical pricing, that even if you tried to "shop around" it is practically impossible. 

The same thing is not true for the choices people make about college spending.

People made choices to take the loans that they took, in the amounts that they took, with some understanding of the interest rates and payment terms.

I would be completely on board with cutting the interest rate on the debts to zero, as that already represents a significant reprieve that the borrowers never expected to receive when they took on the debt.

I would be completely on board with restructuring income-based repayment, so that servicing the debt isn't crippling to people that didn't go into lucrative fields.

I might even be on board with some kind of annual write-down of debt, per borrower.

And these are all simply band-aids if future generations aren't helped by some kind of structural reforms that keep government subsidized loans from continuing to allow college costs to skyrocket (where no "asking price" is too high because the money can always be found).

 

But $50k as a one-time payoff seems awfully extreme -- and frankly, in the current climate, I think it stands a really strong chance of further coalescing the uneducated masses that supported Trump and were egged on by Rush Limbaugh for decades about how college was some evil breeding ground for "leftists".  There are real risks to a move that big aside from the budgetary imprudence.

[Californication | 1,477]

The thing about student loans is that private insustry and people like Joe Biden realized that students needes loans because of the broken education structure in the U.S. and they used that need to structure the loans in worse/more onerous terms than many other types of loans. 

They basically took something that should be provided for the public like streets/police/internet/healthcare - monetized it and are doing their best to draw out everything they can. 

I have a college loan that defaulted. They immediately charged me 20% - 25% on the entire principal. My loan went from somewhere around $32K to $40K. Because of the honerouse student loan fees/collection tactics we are not talking about writing off 50k of principal per borrower, a lot of this is interest.

And this was a non-issue in prior generations. This college for profit at exorbitant fees started with Ronald Reagan (I believe). Non allowing college loans to be discharged through bankruptcy started with Biden. And to talk about the sanctity of loans is a strange talking point for conservatives who pushed/pushing the Fed to save companys all over the country who have failed in fulfilling their contractual debt obligations.

The individual relief is a side-note in my opinion. With the stimulus having to be passed through reconciliation - college debt forgiveness is going to be one of the few opportunities that biden has to stimulate the economy. 

Edit: And if this exacerbates any culture war it is because of poor democratic messaging. This is a lower to middle class benefit and people are hearing it as if this is an upper class benefit and this is just not proportionally true.

Edited February 22, 2021 by Californication

[arch_8ngel | 1,597]

39 minutes ago, Californication said:

The thing about student loans is that private insustry and people like Joe Biden realized that students needes loans because of the broken education structure in the U.S. and they used that need to structure the loans in worse/more onerous terms than many other types of loans. 

They basically took something that should be provided for the public like streets/police/internet/healthcare - monetized it and are doing their best to draw out everything they can. 

There is a pretty wide range of possibilities between "monetized"/"for profit" college and "free college".   And if it really only expands access to lower-tier schools, then I don't think the country or the world is better off if we end up in a situation where we are paying for graduating high school seniors to universally go to "13th grade".  (top tier schools only have so much admissions capacity in the first place, and the vast majority of people don't pass their admissions standards anyway)

I do think there are plenty of ways to expand merit-based aid and need-based aid. And I know that I personally benefitted from merit-based aid in my state, when I went through college. 

I have a college loan that defaulted. They immediately charged me 20% - 25% on the entire principal. My loan went from somewhere around $32K to $40K. Because of the honerouse student loan fees/collection tactics we are not talking about writing off 50k of principal per borrower, a lot of this is interest.

I think your word choice is interesting, in that how you said reads differently than "I defaulted on a college loan". 

That said - I would agree with wiping out penalties or interest.  That is a very different concept that clearing principal that was borrowed willingly with promises of repayment.

And this was a non-issue in prior generations. This college for profit at exorbitant fees started with Ronald Reagan (I believe). Non allowing college loans to be discharged through bankruptcy started with Biden. And to talk about the sanctity of loans is a strange talking point for conservatives who pushed/pushing the Fed to save companys all over the country who have failed in fulfilling their contractual debt obligations.

I don't think I would categorize amendments to the Bankruptcy Code from 1976 and 2005 as being "started with Biden"...

The individual relief is a side-note in my opinion. With the stimulus having to be passed through reconciliation - college debt forgiveness is going to be one of the few opportunities that biden has to stimulate the economy. 

Edit: And if this exacerbates any culture war it is because of poor democratic messaging. This is a lower to middle class benefit and people are hearing it as if this is an upper class benefit and this is just not proportionally true.

I suspect that there is no level of "democratic messaging" that is going to make less-educated Trump supporters happy about other people getting a $50k elimination of student debt. I'm not talking about people WITH big student debt being unhappy about it -- I'm talking about a big chunk of people with no student debt because they didn't go to college in the first place.

You have a bit of a pile up of points, so I'll try and reply in-line...