The Spreading (And Potentially Deadly) Coronavirus Epidemic....

[Doctornick | 419]

5 minutes ago, Tabonga said:

I am set for money (not rich but the wolf is in the alley and not on the stoop).  If the economy tanks it may well take me with it.  But it isn't all aabout me (or you) -there are a lot of people who are sufferning now and more will do so once the government turns off the magic money machine. Sometimes a more global perspective -as Spock would say "sometimes the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the rew".is appropriate.

My parents (both of whom lived through the really hard times of the Great Depression) told me enough stories that were harrowing enough that working in for peanuts anywhere would appear to be utopia. 

teThings were indeed mishandled - but part of that was due to not knowing enough about the virus and the rest was due to the shenanigans going on in various nations (not to veer into politics.  Hindsight is not terribly useful  though - but I think we would have done better protecing the really vulnerable (such as in extended care facilities) and largely letting the thing run its course - most of the non vulnerable population seems to either get a mild case or not even know they have been exposed.  would we have had deaths - you bet - but we have them anyway.

You'll find no disagreement from me on how it was handled from the start (here and globally) but unfortunately we still had an opportunity to make better decisions in March and didn't.  I think at this point we are all waiting to see what happens anyways, the economy is going to suffer greatly, and hopefully if that's the case we avoid another 100,000 or more unnecessary deaths.  

I just got a reminder about burn treatments too in time for 4th of July.  I may lose my mind before another month passes, but such is life.  Our new interns and residents are getting the fast lane in medicine that's for sure.

[Tabonga | 2,317]

Just now, Doctornick said:

 

I just got a reminder about burn treatments too in time for 4th of July.  I may lose my mind before another month passes, but such is life.  Our new interns and residents are getting the fast lane in medicine that's for sure.

OT - Our rough collie has been really agitated the last several days because of random fireworks - we bought a thunder jacket for him  which works amazingly well.

We have some doggie downers for tomorrow night and Saturday since we expect it will be pretty noisy both times.

[Doctornick | 419]

2 minutes ago, Tabonga said:

OT - Our rough collie has been really agitated the last several days because of random fireworks - we bought a thunder jacket for him  which works amazingly well.

We have some doggie downers for tomorrow night and Saturday since we expect it will be pretty noisy both times.

I have three puggles (pug-beagle) and a pug.  One of them needs the thunder jacket and it helps a ton.  The other three just howl mercilessly at them, so my neighbors don't shoot them off anymore

[Tabonga | 2,317]

1 minute ago, Doctornick said:

I have three puggles (pug-beagle) and a pug.  One of them needs the thunder jacket and it helps a ton.  The other three just howl mercilessly at them, so my neighbors don't shoot them off anymore

Jack is  bothered by a lot of things - high wind, thunder, fireworks and lately the odd phenomenon of :"the howl"  (which usually gets the nearby coyotes going - which also winds him up). His usual routine is to shiver, bark and try to literally merge with one of us - which is no fun since he is at the top end of the collie scale at just under 80 pounds.

[Doctornick | 419]

I just read an article on Forbes this morning that states where protests were heavy had fewer people out than usual, so the number of cases could actually have been decreased by the protests.  It actually makes sense in a crazy way, because when I drove home from work during one of the protests near me the city looked empty other than one concentrated spot. What a crazy world we live in, Happy Friday gamers.  Make sure to keep your fingers attached this weekend.

[Tabonga | 2,317]

22 minutes ago, Doctornick said:

I just read an article on Forbes this morning that states where protests were heavy had fewer people out than usual, so the number of cases could actually have been decreased by the protests.  It actually makes sense in a crazy way, because when I drove home from work during one of the protests near me the city looked empty other than one concentrated spot. What a crazy world we live in, Happy Friday gamers.  Make sure to keep your fingers attached this weekend.

I saw that and the reasoning seemed to be that it was because the sane law abiding people stayed home out of fear of the mobs.*  So we just have to burn the cities down to save them apparently.  It was afterall the almost complete burning of London during the Great Fire of 1666 that ended the last great outbreak of bubonic plague in Europe. While there was no protests, rioting, or looting that preceded the fire in London the way the garrison of the Tower of London finally stopped the fire was by blowing up a good chunk of the few parts of London that were unscorched by the fire with gunpowder.  

SInce we have much better ways of destroying things these days we can maybe kill several birds with one stone (he said with tongue firmly in cheek) here. *Goes off and reads "A Modest Proposal" for the umpteenth time.*

*Without adequate contact tracing we don't know what percentage of the cases that did present themselves were tied to the protests (either first or second generation) though. 

[Doctornick | 419]

22 minutes ago, Tabonga said:

I saw that and the reasoning seemed to be that it was because the sane law abiding people stayed home out of fear of the mobs.*  So we just have to burn the cities down to save them apparently.  It was afterall the almost complete burning of London during the Great Fire of 1666 that ended the last great outbreak of bubonic plague in Europe. While there was no protests, rioting, or looting that preceded the fire in London the way the garrison of the Tower of London finally stopped the fire was by blowing up a good chunk of the few parts of London that were unscorched by the fire with gunpowder.  

SInce we have much better ways of destroying things these days we can maybe kill several birds with one stone (he said with tongue firmly in cheek) here. *Goes off and reads "A Modest Proposal" for the umpteenth time.*

*Without adequate contact tracing we don't know what percentage of the cases that did present themselves were tied to the protests (either first or second generation) though. 

I don't know if I would use the same words to describe people who stayed home, but that is the exact thinking from what I read.  Also testing done on protestors (confirmed by phone GPS) resulted in lower positive percentage rates than areas where protests weren't occuring.  I'm looking for more info since I have one of those precious days off today.

[Tabonga | 2,317]

It was mostly a tongue in cheek post so I wouldn't take it too seriously - I am not trying to engage in any serious back and forth on this one so you don't need to pursue it if you have other things to do.   *Goes back to re-reading "A Modest Proposal."*

Stage aside - I consider my self sane and (more or less) law abiding and wouldn't knowingly go anywhere near protesting/rioting/looting/burning mobs. (I am not big on rubbernecking either!)  Nor do I want any such mobs rampaging in my neighborhood.

 

 

[Tabonga | 2,317]

I wish to all *f*ck that everyone would quit trying to play a cheap game of gotcha (maybe at sick people's expense) with this and give it a fair, honest  and neutral study:

https://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/local/michigan/2020/07/02/michigan-henry-ford-health-study-finds-hydroxychloroquine-lowers-covid-19-death-rate/5365090002/

[Doctornick | 419]

51 minutes ago, Tabonga said:

I wish to all *f*ck that everyone would quit trying to play a cheap game of gotcha (maybe at sick people's expense) with this and give it a fair, honest  and neutral study:

https://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/local/michigan/2020/07/02/michigan-henry-ford-health-study-finds-hydroxychloroquine-lowers-covid-19-death-rate/5365090002/

So this takes time unfortunately for the data to fully answer our questions, but it does seem to be beneficial.  Unfortunately that drug is used here mainly for people with severe health issues like lupus, connective tissue disorders, and rheumatoid arthritis.  When it first appeared we ran into some extreme shortages with this medication, thankfully that seems to have leveled off in the last month.  In my opinion it's worth trying until we encounter another shortage of hydroxychloroquine (which hopefully doesn't happen).  If we face another shortage it becomes the difficult game of deciding who gets it, because most of the people suffering from the chronic issues I mentioned have been on this drug for awhile and stopping therapy could have potentially bad side effects.

[ThePhleo | 2,184]

55 minutes ago, Tabonga said:

It was mostly a tongue in cheek post so I wouldn't take it too seriously - I am not trying to engage in any serious back and forth on this one so you don't need to pursue it if you have other things to do.   *Goes back to re-reading "A Modest Proposal."*

Stage aside - I consider my self sane and (more or less) law abiding and wouldn't knowingly go anywhere near protesting/rioting/looting/burning mobs. (I am not big on rubbernecking either!)  Nor do I want any such mobs rampaging in my neighborhood.

 

 

Protesting is virtually a civic duty in any country with freedom of speech. Rioting is also a (nasty extreme, but) natural part of protesting when your government is oppressive.

During the French Revolution heads literally rolled, America itself is founded on a full scale riot that turned into war with the worlds largest and most powerful navy.

Looting however, that’s just stealing from your fellow man...then again that Boston tea party thing.

You can also be a law abiding citizen and be in the wrong ethically speaking. Think back to Hitlers Germany, it’s illegal to knowingly withhold information if you knew your neighbor was harboring a Jew, Gypsy, or other undesirable.

I don’t know enough to have a smart informed opinion about BLM, or Coronavirus. But I know that the world is complicated and that all lives cannot matter if black lives don’t matter...I also know that this Coronavirus is the most serious issue we’ve faced in our lifetime and it’s being ignored.

[Tabonga | 2,317]

3 minutes ago, Doctornick said:

So this takes time unfortunately for the data to fully answer our questions, but it does seem to be beneficial.  Unfortunately that drug is used here mainly for people with severe health issues like lupus, connective tissue disorders, and rheumatoid arthritis.  When it first appeared we ran into some extreme shortages with this medication, thankfully that seems to have leveled off in the last month.  In my opinion it's worth trying until we encounter another shortage of hydroxychloroquine (which hopefully doesn't happen).  If we face another shortage it becomes the difficult game of deciding who gets it, because most of the people suffering from the chronic issues I mentioned have been on this drug for awhile and stopping therapy could have potentially bad side effects.

Since it seems to be widely used for malaria I suspect it is not hard to make in quantities - so it likely is a matter of ramping up production in order to meet increased demand.

[Doctornick | 419]

1 hour ago, Tabonga said:

Since it seems to be widely used for malaria I suspect it is not hard to make in quantities - so it likely is a matter of ramping up production in order to meet increased demand.

That's unfortunately not how it works, as there needs to be enough of the compounds to make the drug in demand.  With the massive increase in demand by late February that wasn't the case.  They caught up to it, but if we keep increasing cases at this rate I would guess we will run out again.

[Tabonga | 2,317]

2 hours ago, ThePhleo said:

Protesting is virtually a civic duty in any country with freedom of speech. Rioting is also a (nasty extreme, but) natural part of protesting when your government is oppressive.

During the French Revolution heads literally rolled, America itself is founded on a full scale riot that turned into war with the worlds largest and most powerful navy.

Looting however, that’s just stealing from your fellow man...then again that Boston tea party thing.

You can also be a law abiding citizen and be in the wrong ethically speaking. Think back to Hitlers Germany, it’s illegal to knowingly withhold information if you knew your neighbor was harboring a Jew, Gypsy, or other undesirable.

I don’t know enough to have a smart informed opinion about BLM, or Coronavirus. But I know that the world is complicated and that all lives cannot matter if black lives don’t matter...I also know that this Coronavirus is the most serious issue we’ve faced in our lifetime and it’s being ignored.

I obviously have a different take on more than a little of what you said - this thread is not perhaps the best place to detour there - at least one person has pointed out/requested that it not involve politics anymore than is necessary.

Edited July 3, 2020 by Tabonga

[ThePhleo | 2,184]

2 hours ago, Tabonga said:

I obviously have a different take on more than a little of what you said - this thread is not perhaps the best place to detour there - at least one person has pointed out/requested that it not involve politics anymore than is necessary.

I thought this *was* the Political thread for a moment. Apologies all around!

[Tabonga | 2,317]

7 minutes ago, ThePhleo said:

I thought this *was* the Political thread for a moment. Apologies all around!

Sometimes the heat of battle is enough to cloud men's minds. ^___^

[Doctornick | 419]

51 minutes ago, Tabonga said:

Sometimes the heat of battle is enough to cloud men's minds. ^___^

I appreciate you straightening @ThePhleo out.  He gets pretty rowdy from time to time on the boards but we forgive him because it's a Jersey thing

[Tabonga | 2,317]

3 minutes ago, Doctornick said:

I appreciate you straightening @ThePhleo out.  He gets pretty rowdy from time to time on the boards but we forgive him because it's a Jersey thing

Heh - the impetuousness of youth.   We may squabble intensely but mostly we are one big somewhat dysfuntional happy family.  

 

[Tabonga | 2,317]

This is actually a pretty damn clever idea.

https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/walmart-turn-160-parking-lots-190547218.html

[ThePhleo | 2,184]

31 minutes ago, Doctornick said:

I appreciate you straightening @ThePhleo out.  He gets pretty rowdy from time to time on the boards but we forgive him because it's a Jersey thing

 

[GPX | 1,369]

20 hours ago, Doctornick said:

You'll find no disagreement from me on how it was handled from the start (here and globally) but unfortunately we still had an opportunity to make better decisions in March and didn't.  I think at this point we are all waiting to see what happens anyways, the economy is going to suffer greatly, and hopefully if that's the case we avoid another 100,000 or more unnecessary deaths.  

I just got a reminder about burn treatments too in time for 4th of July.  I may lose my mind before another month passes, but such is life.  Our new interns and residents are getting the fast lane in medicine that's for sure.

I haven’t been involved in this thread for several weeks so apologies if I’ve taken you out of context. I also work in the health field, but outside the hospital setting. I can relate to the general fear of any health workers and absolutely understanding and respect for the staff who works in a hospital. 

From my personal perspective, I see all types of conditions from physical to mental. And I think a lot of us forget that mental impacts can be just as much damaging (if not perhaps more) than actual physical morbidities. People who are suffering from a sustained lockdown (financial, domestic violence etc) are affected in a debilitating way not too dissimilar to the physical effects of the Covid19 or any other infective agents.

So whilst lockdowns are a good way to minimize spread of viral pandemics, it has its own side effect of potentially worsening the mental state of the non-affected. With this regard, it is very hard to make a call on politics in terms of what is the best approach, and how long should lockdowns be going on for? Unfortunately, the exact answer would be different for everyone.

[Tabonga | 2,317]

1 hour ago, GPX said:

From my personal perspective, I see all types of conditions from physical to mental. And I think a lot of us forget that mental impacts can be just as mu damaging (if not perhaps more) than actual physical morbidities. People who are suffering from a sustained lockdown (financial, domestic violence etc) are affected in a debilitating way not too dissimilar to the physical effects of the Covid19 or any other infective agents.

themSo whilst lockdowns are a good way to minimize spread of viral pandemics, it has its own side effect of potentially worsening the mental state of the non-affected. With this regard, it is very hard to make a call on politics in terms of what is the best approach, and how long should lockdowns be going on for? Unfortunately, the exact answer would be different for everyone.c

The connection between mental health/happiness and the immune system should not be overlooked. The more miserable people are the less effective their immune systems will likely be.  Coop people up long enough and the chances for many of them getting a more severe case if/when they get exposed to the virus will likely increase.  

[Doctornick | 419]

2 hours ago, GPX said:

I haven’t been involved in this thread for several weeks so apologies if I’ve taken you out of context. I also work in the health field, but outside the hospital setting. I can relate to the general fear of any health workers and absolutely understanding and respect for the staff who works in a hospital. 

From my personal perspective, I see all types of conditions from physical to mental. And I think a lot of us forget that mental impacts can be just as much damaging (if not perhaps more) than actual physical morbidities. People who are suffering from a sustained lockdown (financial, domestic violence etc) are affected in a debilitating way not too dissimilar to the physical effects of the Covid19 or any other infective agents.

So whilst lockdowns are a good way to minimize spread of viral pandemics, it has its own side effect of potentially worsening the mental state of the non-affected. With this regard, it is very hard to make a call on politics in terms of what is the best approach, and how long should lockdowns be going on for? Unfortunately, the exact answer would be different for everyone.

Oh you are spot on, we have a huge spike in mental emergency admissions over the course of the pandemic too.  I think a lot of people are equating public places to having a small initiate gathering at home.   You can definitely have safe gatherings with friends/family at home, ideally outdoors etc without much worry or even go for a walk/hike, so I struggle to see  what is the real cause.  That said it's an equally serious issue without an easy answer, whereas Covid suppression does have a fairly easy answer.

[zeppelin03 | 314]

My wife came to me after she finished chatting with a friend.  The friend and her husband in the past had critiqued our purchasing of conventional produce over organic due to the help concerns.  Now the same friend doesn't see the point of wearing a masks if other are.  I'm kind of lost on how people prioritize their health.

We were going to visit family for a fire outside tomorrow.  Since the outing would consist of elderly Covid survivors and people working with the public we have decided to just stay home.  My sister asked me to help watch my nephew in a couple weeks to give my mother a break.  I don't mind distancing a couple weeks to ensure I'm healthy for my 1 year old nephew. 

Cuyahoga might be imposing mandatory masks now too. Hopefully that helps around here.  Seems to be a hot topic politically but I could care less about that.  I just want this virus to wrap up. 

Edited July 4, 2020 by zeppelin03

[ZeldaFreak | 3,600]

6 minutes ago, zeppelin03 said:

I just want this virus to wrap up.

I think regardless of people's differing opinions on the subject matter, this is what we all want at the end of the day.