Pop reports in graded games - what do actual/potential consumers want?

[GPX | 1,371]

“Population reports” - 2 of the hottest words going around. Since a lot of chatter has been made on this topic, I thought it might be worthwhile to just make a poll and get an idea of what would consumers want? 

A good measure of a business model is how they cater for the consumers. Do graded-games consumers want pop reports or not? You guys can help out with the answer to the poll here! 

Edited July 1, 2021 by GPX

[GPX | 1,371]

Additional point, this is a general question across any format of grading company: VGA, WATA or whatever else that currently exists.

[inasuma | 1,203]

There's three threads on pop reports now and one is locked. lol

It doesn't matter to me who does it first, but I think if either VGA or Wata were to start publishing pops, the other would be incentivized to do it, too.

[GPX | 1,371]

9 hours ago, inasuma said:

There's three threads on pop reports now and one is locked. lol

It doesn't matter to me who does it first, but I think if either VGA or Wata were to start publishing pops, the other would be incentivized to do it, too.

Yeah but this one has a magical poll. This might hopefully give it a better perspective of what consumers or potential consumers want. So far, I’m seeing a bit of a trend..

[Gulag Joe | 584]

tHiS iS sEnSitIvE dAtA bRo

[WalterWhiteJr. | 1,162]

I’d love population reports. I’m all for consumer transparency. I’m not a huge graded collector but I have several graded games and am always casually looking. 

[jonebone | 1,307]

They'll be out at some point and they have they wouldn't affect my buying.  We've been operating without them for years at this point so I've gotten used to it.  

[Gulag Joe | 584]

The only thing we get to enjoy right now is after they grade our games, without our consent, they whore out our games looking for a buyer, and then charge us more based on that whoring.

[GPX | 1,371]

15 hours ago, Gulag Joe said:

tHiS iS sEnSitIvE dAtA bRo

Everything in this thread is completely legal and ethical. I think.

[inasuma | 1,203]

1 hour ago, GPX said:

Everything in this thread is completely legal and ethical. I think.

> wata has entered the chat

[O.G. CIB | 415]

20 minutes ago, inasuma said:

> wata has entered the chat

They been in the chat the entire time hiding in plain clothes 

[T-Pac | 7,576]

4 hours ago, inasuma said:

> wata has entered the chat

 

4 hours ago, Mr. CIB said:

They been in the chat the entire time hiding in plain clothes 

[fcgamer | 4,737]

I am not into graded collecting, but if I were, pops would be a must. It's obvious to me that with the crazy prices going on over at Heritage, the insider knowledge the old blood sealed collectors have (many of which are directly involved with WATA) of quantities known to exist for various titles, lack of pops is just to line their pockets further, adding a sense of scarcity where the reality is likely much, much different.

So I'm all for population reports, adds a lot of transparency where there should be transparency.

[WalterWhiteJr. | 1,162]

7 hours ago, fcgamer said:

I am not into graded collecting, but if I were, pops would be a must. It's obvious to me that with the crazy prices going on over at Heritage, the insider knowledge the old blood sealed collectors have (many of which are directly involved with WATA) of quantities known to exist for various titles, lack of pops is just to line their pockets further, adding a sense of scarcity where the reality is likely much, much different.

So I'm all for population reports, adds a lot of transparency where there should be transparency.

This X a million 

[WhyNotZoidberg | 586]

I'm all for population reports. Especially since someone somewhere has the info, it only makes sense that it be made transparent for future customers. 

None of my games are graded, and honestly, I stopped myself from garding something solely because there was no population report.

In this specific case I doubt the grade would have been high, but knowing where it stood compared to other grades would have been the incentive I need. If it graded 7.4 and that was the highest ever, then I would have done it.

[inasuma | 1,203]

 

[retro.magnus | 136]

Deniz just said on a livestream on IG with withotis that grading companies don't release pop reports until they've been around 5 years and hit a critical mass. He said WATA would be doing a disservice until they hit critical mass or when they determine is best.  He made it seem like they only release once & it has to perfectly give an idea into how many games are physically in the wild vs just what they've graded. Why can't they release their pop report every 6 months, 1 year etc.. 

[inasuma | 1,203]

4 hours ago, epiczail said:

Deniz just said on a livestream on IG with withotis that grading companies don't release pop reports until they've been around 5 years and hit a critical mass. He said WATA would be doing a disservice until they hit critical mass or when they determine is best.  He made it seem like they only release once & it has to perfectly give an idea into how many games are physically in the wild vs just what they've graded. Why can't they release their pop report every 6 months, 1 year etc.. 

that’s interesting because Wata’s legal statement makes the disclaimer that pop reports are an inaccurate and unrepresentative picture of scarce and populous games alike. meanwhile we all know that if it doesn’t matter, why not just publish it? I’m speculating here but it probably has something to do with keeping prices high and rarity just opaque enough so auction premiums rise, assuring HA makes a sufficient cut first. I mean, why else have an exclusive partnership? lol

[Gulag Joe | 584]

7 hours ago, inasuma said:

that’s interesting because Wata’s legal statement makes the disclaimer that pop reports are an inaccurate and unrepresentative picture of scarce and populous games alike. meanwhile we all know that if it doesn’t matter, why not just publish it? I’m speculating here but it probably has something to do with keeping prices high and rarity just opaque enough so auction premiums rise, assuring HA makes a sufficient cut first. I mean, why else have an exclusive partnership? lol

To me it sounds like they haven't graded that many games. If the numbers were accurate in the pop numbers that were exposed a few weeks back, a hundred games each of the most popular titles that are getting the 5-6 figure pricing is very few imo. The disservice he could be referencing is the hobby will forever be for the very wealthy.

[OptOut | 8,890]

1 hour ago, Gulag Joe said:

To me it sounds like they haven't graded that many games. If the numbers were accurate in the pop numbers that were exposed a few weeks back, a hundred games each of the most popular titles that are getting the 5-6 figure pricing is very few imo. The disservice he could be referencing is the hobby will forever be for the very wealthy.

The graded games being sold at auction for ludicrous sums have NOTHING to do with the video game collecting hobby. The people buying these games have ZERO genuine interest in video games as an art-form, as entertainment, or as artifacts of cultural or historical significance.

ALL they care about is pumping their investment. They are not hobbyists, they are speculators. Get it right.

[Tanooki | 4,943]

I have a very few items depending if these could be graded between new/sealed or CIB in immaculate shape where I'd pay.

I have not done so yet because the 2 choices that have persisted so far have both felt shady and at worst manipulative to date.  VGA has their issues and total lack of transparency or grading consistency going way back like what a decade now?  WATA yeah well, we know their shade and double dipping interests and other questionable issues people go on about here, so that.

The only way I'd trust either of them is a mixture of publicly (fairly) rock solid standards that stick so a grade is a grade and not just easily fished for, but also that all these grades, trades and sales are made on a pop sheet so I know I'm not getting screwed either by them or someone valuing my goods for anything from insurance to transaction values.

Maybe the CGC getting in on it, they'll make some waves to get some more open public transparent honesty, but for now, if I parted with the little I'd bother with such practices I'd just let it fly and let someone else have the worry as it's not worth it.

[Amermoe | 150]

On 7/3/2021 at 7:28 AM, jonebone said:

They'll be out at some point and they have they wouldn't affect my buying.  We've been operating without them for years at this point so I've gotten used to it.  

You're right Jone, but the point of this is for the majority of people that may not be as knowledgeable to make informed decisions. I'm very certain that the current market trends we're seeing and price movements will adjust (and in some cases correct) after a census comes out. And indirectly it will have an effect even on the long time collectors, because the money and valuation will be spread out among different items. Those sitting on rare items might see their items increase in value, and the common items will be seen as such and likely decrease in value (assuming demand is not there).

People who've been in this for 5-10 years or more don't need a guide to tell them what's popular, or what's rare, or how many of x item exists, which is why they're able to navigate through this unpredictable market.

At the very least it will offer some stability, so that there's actual agreement as to which items should command x amount of dollars.

[jonebone | 1,307]

7 hours ago, Amermoe said:

You're right Jone, but the point of this is for the majority of people that may not be as knowledgeable to make informed decisions. I'm very certain that the current market trends we're seeing and price movements will adjust (and in some cases correct) after a census comes out. And indirectly it will have an effect even on the long time collectors, because the money and valuation will be spread out among different items. Those sitting on rare items might see their items increase in value, and the common items will be seen as such and likely decrease in value (assuming demand is not there).

People who've been in this for 5-10 years or more don't need a guide to tell them what's popular, or what's rare, or how many of x item exists, which is why they're able to navigate through this unpredictable market.

At the very least it will offer some stability, so that there's actual agreement as to which items should command x amount of dollars.

Yeah but even then, the people still don't know what they're buying and you'll need to consult with an "expert" to make sense of it.

For example, HA sold an Excitebike 9.8 A+ white oval seal for $43.2k in the last auction.  They continually mentioned "highest graded" and "best example of this game that we've sold" when running the auction.  Yet no, clearly the white oval seal is typically far inferior to pricing on round oval seal black boxes (or even the hangtabs versions too).  The best copy they've sold was the 9.4 A+ Carolina Collection round seal copy.

End of day, sure I don't mind arming the people with population reports but I think people are a bit naive if they expend it to send earthquakes through the pricing.  It won't be earth shattering like some suspect.

[GPX | 1,371]

I reckon VGA had a look at this thread and took notice of the poll. Or their current decision for pop reports to go public was just a natural effect of the grading market. I wonder how this might affect WATA’s business approach?

Also bumping this thread for those who missed it the first time. Interested to see how the poll might change in the wake of some controversies over the recent weeks.

[Tanooki | 4,943]

I think they felt anywhere from threatened to bitter over the garbage the collusion between WATA and HA inspired.  Think about it.  They've been at it like a decade now, to have that clown show up, get an auction house under them, and steer a lot of their business progressively away from VGA because all the big bucks followed their competition.  Having been in charge so long to have someone else show up, and then effectively have two identical quality grades show up where your game sells for $1000 online and due to their fixing their copy sell for like 100x the price would get them bitter.

Then you have threads like this, the jobst video, others falling in with more media, more investigation, etc popping up what better thing to do than finally admit you have kept track of all the records and now suddenly have an honest streak to release pop reports.  No better way to deflate some manufactured hype and overkill prices than to reality check the lack of sold scarcity by lie with a pop report.