Game Debate #16: Super Mario 64

[ZeldaFreak | 3,600]

Just now, Jeevan said:

WEAK

I'll revert my 9 rating and give it an 8 if ya' keep complainin' about it

[Jeevan | 8,911]

Just now, ZeldaFreak said:

I'll revert my 9 rating and give it an 8 if ya' keep complainin' about it

no, that was kuz u hate tick tock.  u sir are weak!  

[ZeldaFreak | 3,600]

14 minutes ago, Jeevan said:

no, that was kuz u hate tick tock.  u sir are weak!  

I said before I even MADE it to Tick Tock that it was an 8 or a 9 for me ya' bastard, the existence of Tick Tock Clock just sealed the deal for me!

[Jeevan | 8,911]

52 minutes ago, ZeldaFreak said:

I said before I even MADE it to Tick Tock that it was an 8 or a 9 for me ya' bastard, the existence of Tick Tock Clock just sealed the deal for me!

Yes tick tock was a pain, but imo it was a good stage.  it challenged u late in the game, and the speedup slowdown mechanic on the time u chose to go in was cool as hell!

[Sumez | 2,959]

Wait, Tick Tock Clock, one of the best stages in Mario 64, made you think less of the game?

[ZeldaFreak | 3,600]

3 minutes ago, Sumez said:

Wait, Tick Tock Clock, one of the best stages in Mario 64, made you think less of the game?

Hahaha, no, not actually, I'm just over-exaggerating. The stage itself isn't horrible, it can just be extremely frustrating, and the 100-coin star in particular was a pain. And... well, frankly I'd disagree with it being one of the best stages, but to each their own

[ZeldaFreak | 3,600]

2 hours ago, Jeevan said:

Yes tick tock was a pain, but imo it was a good stage.  it challenged u late in the game, and the speedup slowdown mechanic on the time u chose to go in was cool as hell!

Being able to actually stop all the moving parts was pretty neat, but the whole speed up/slow down thing didn't really do anything for me, since there's absolutely no reason to go in to the stage when things are going fast unless you're just impatient and don't want to wait for the clock hands. I see what they were going for, but it kind of just felt like a gimmick that really didn't add anything to the stage for me, since there's no reason to not go in the stage when everything is slow. Again though, being able to actually stop everything was cool.

As far as challenging me, sure the stage was challenging, but a lot of that was due to the damn camera. Some of the tougher jumps in that level are only tough because the camera restricts you to certain angles, so at some points it's really hard to judge whether or not you're gonna make certain jumps. Plus I lost a couple lives to some bullshit invisible walls a couple times in that stage, I didn't much care for that, especially since one of those happened right before I got the 100-coin star.

I dunno, just... when I miss a jump because the stage designers deliberately surrounded the entire stage with walls because they knew that would restrict camera movement and therefore make some jumps much harder to judge, it just feels a little cheap to me.

Plus I just don't like it when stages just have one huge bottomless pit the whole time in any game, much less a platformer

Edited September 28, 2020 by ZeldaFreak

[Jeevan | 8,911]

4 minutes ago, ZeldaFreak said:

Being able to actually stop all the moving parts was pretty neat, but the whole speed up/slow down thing didn't really do anything for me, since there's absolutely no reason to go in to the stage when things are going fast unless you're just impatient and don't want to wait for the clock hands. I see what they were going for, but it kind of just felt like a gimmick that really didn't add anything to the stage for me, since there's no reason to not go in the stage when everything is slow. Again though, being able to actually stop everything was cool.

As far as challenging me, sure the stage was challenging, but a lot of that was due to the damn camera. Some of the tougher jumps in that level are only tough because the camera restricts you to certain angles, so at some points it's really hard to judge whether or not you're gonna make certain jumps. Plus I lost a couple lives to some bullshit invisible walls a couple times in that stage, I didn't much care for that, especially since one of those happened right before I got the 100-coin star.

I dunno, just... when I miss a jump because the stage designers deliberately surrounded the entire stage with walls because they knew that would restrict camera movement and therefore make some jumps much harder to judge, it just feels a little cheap to me.

Man, are you an author or something?   

[ZeldaFreak | 3,600]

3 minutes ago, Jeevan said:

Man, are you an author or something?   

Well I'm SO-RRY that I don't exclusively respond in one to two sentence posts. This is supposed to be a debate thread, isn't it?

[Jeevan | 8,911]

Just now, ZeldaFreak said:

Well I'm SO-RRY that I don't exclusively respond in one to two sentence posts. This is supposed to be a debate thread, isn't it?

Spoiler

Weak

I agree that making it faster is not ideal, but it did add to the challenge if you were gud  Anyway, glad u enjoy the game regardless of whether or not you gave it the proper score.......Now tell us if it beat BOTW.......

That right there is the real reason i wanted it to do so well

 What is your favorite level, did u say?  I personally like wet dry world.  The height of your jump determining the water level was pretty nifty.  Kept me from getting those last stars till i figured out backflipping got the highest level of water when u jumped properly.

[ZeldaFreak | 3,600]

6 minutes ago, Jeevan said:

  Hide contents

Weak

I agree that making it faster is not ideal, but it did add to the challenge if you were gud  Anyway, glad u enjoy the game regardless of whether or not you gave it the proper score.......Now tell us if it beat BOTW.......

That right there is the real reason i wanted it to do so well

 What is your favorite level, did u say?  I personally like wet dry world.  The height of your jump determining the water level was pretty nifty.  Kept me from getting those last stars till i figured out backflipping got the highest level of water when u jumped properly.

Well I'm not gonna give myself extra challenge if I don't have to, that's kind of a cop-out excuse for that mechanic, don't you think?

And no, it did not beat Breath of the Wild for me of course (On account of me giving SM64 a 9 and BoTW a 10) nor does it beat OoT for me, although I haven't played OoT in a couple years, so maybe I should give that one another shot too. It's definitely in a similar league to OoT though, I just barely prefer OoT I think. Both games have aged very well though IMO.

Frankly I don't see what your problem with BoTW is considering you haven't played it as far as I'm aware, but it's nothing new seeing you unfairly hate on something

I liked Wet-Dry World quite a bit as well, that might be my favorite too. I didn't even realize the height of your jump determining the water level was a thing until after I had already beaten the stage, I just used the... uh... whatever you'd call them, shapes, that were scattered around the level you could hit to change the water level. I also really enjoyed Tiny Huge Island. Big Boo's Haunt was also pretty cool, and surprisingly I actually enjoyed both of the water levels quite a bit too, those were pretty fun as well.

I will say that Hazy Maze Cave was probably my least favorite stage, I did not have a good time with that one at all

[Jeevan | 8,911]

Frankly I don't see what your problem with BoTW is considering you haven't played it as far as I'm aware, but it's nothing new seeing you unfairly hate on something

Words hurt! 

I don't know, i lost my love for zelda after n64.....even some of the n64 was a bit meh to me, but they are still good honestly.

Hazy maze cave does suck!

The camera gets awful in that one too.  

Big boo's was pretty good as well, but i still stand by wet dry world as my fav. with jolly roger coming in second.

[ZeldaFreak | 3,600]

6 minutes ago, Jeevan said:

but i still stand by wet dry world as my fav. with jolly roger coming in second.

Yeah, for me it'd probably be Wet-Dry World, followed closely by Tiny Huge Island, then probably Big Boo's Haunt, and the two water levels.

[Andy_Bogomil | 815]

Mario 64 > OoT

BotW >> Odyssey

 

Dire, Dire Dock and Jolly Roger Bay are the worst levels imo even if the music is super chill. The swimming is so slow. I like Whomp's Fortress but there isn't much to the level.

Edited September 28, 2020 by Andy_Bogomil

[RH | 4,905]

You know, I started trying to think about my own personal favorite level and there isn't one.  Oddly, though, it's like I feel like I'm "less annoyed" by them to various degrees but as a collective whole, I LOVE the game.  I mean, I'm saying it and it doesn't make sense but it's as if, for me, no level can stand on it's own.  They have fair level-layouts but it's the stars that matter.  Some of the stars are killer fun to earn.  Others are annoying little brats.  But, collectively, as one game the experience is great.  Some will enjoy collecting certain stars more than others, while others may hate certain types of stars.  This makes each level fun and annoying.

So... I can't choose a favorite.  I think I'm least annoyed/most appreciative of the very first level.  It's diverse in it's stars and feels like a real Mario level. Whomp's Fortress is also really solid and fun start to finish.   Tiny Big Island (or whatever it's called) is really fun too, but definitely has at least one, super annoying star that can ruin your day.

I don't know.  I don't think I have a favorite, except the castle secret stars.  That's consistently fun to me.

[Gloves | 11,783]

I think, oddly enough, that the desert level in 64 is my favorite level. It always felt mysterious to me, and I liked that you could go in the pyramid. Like MOST levels in the game, it's actually quite small compared to what we see these days, but it felt like they packed a fair bit of value into it.

[RH | 4,905]

1 minute ago, Gloves said:

I think, oddly enough, that the desert level in 64 is my favorite level. It always felt mysterious to me, and I liked that you could go in the pyramid. Like MOST levels in the game, it's actually quite small compared to what we see these days, but it felt like they packed a fair bit of value into it.

I completely agree to this, and almost pointed it out myself.  But, I've not jumped into this one yet on the Switch and couldn't recall my level of rage getting all of those stars.  Regardless, any level that is two-in-one is pretty high on my list.

[DefaultGen | 5,405]

22 minutes ago, Andy_Bogomil said:

Dire, Dire Dock and Jolly Roger Bay are the worst levels imo even if the music is super chill. The swimming is so slow. I like Whomp's Fortress but there isn't much to the level.

Gotta love how Dire Dire Docks and Jolly Roger Bay are also literally the same level. A boat that's sometimes there, sometimes not. Water tunnel. Chests you have to randomly press in order. Bubbles you need to use the metal cap to get through. An water creature you need to follow to get a star. Annoyingly not enough coins for the 100 coin star.

Edited September 28, 2020 by DefaultGen

[Gloves | 11,783]

Wet/Dry World or whatever it's called might well be my LEAST favorite level, because it felt the most like a strictly "game level", rather than one that might serve some purpose in the Mario world. Most or maybe even ALL other levels felt like PLACES, whereas this level has seemingly pointless structures meant strictly for platforming from one place to the other.

 

It's ODD that it's literally a box. And while other levels are not completely devoid of random floating blocks, this level seems almost entirely comprised of them.

Of all the levels I feel that it's the worst designed. It's theme... exists... in that you turn on and off water, basically. So yeah wet/dry. It feels like they made a platforming course and forgot to skin it.

[DefaultGen | 5,405]

I also thing Wet-Dry World is possibly my favorite because it has so much going on. For a "second level", Whomp's Fortress is pretty great too, just not as fancy.

I also always look forward to Lethal Lava land, but partially because it has zero annoying stars and it's super breezy. You can butt-lava your way immediately to anywhere in the level and heal up with coins. 

[DefaultGen | 5,405]

2 minutes ago, Gloves said:

Wet/Dry World or whatever it's called might well be my LEAST favorite level, because it felt the most like a strictly "game level", rather than one that might serve some purpose in the Mario world. Most or maybe even ALL other levels felt like PLACES, whereas this level has seemingly pointless structures meant strictly for platforming from one place to the other.

I mean my favorite Sunshine levels look like this so I guess I'm more about the platforming/exploration than the theme.

[RH | 4,905]

12 minutes ago, Gloves said:

Wet/Dry World or whatever it's called might well be my LEAST favorite level, because it felt the most like a strictly "game level", rather than one that might serve some purpose in the Mario world. Most or maybe even ALL other levels felt like PLACES, whereas this level has seemingly pointless structures meant strictly for platforming from one place to the other.

 

It's ODD that it's literally a box. And while other levels are not completely devoid of random floating blocks, this level seems almost entirely comprised of them.

Of all the levels I feel that it's the worst designed. It's theme... exists... in that you turn on and off water, basically. So yeah wet/dry. It feels like they made a platforming course and forgot to skin it.

I will admit that I find this stage to be fun, however, it does look/feel like the whole stage was an internal demo of 3D platform design and texture demoing.  I mean, even in the screen capture of Gloves' video-- look at the wall on the right-side.  I know there is a reason for making the wall higher in that area of the game, but why angle a new texture? It's like they were testing the system and after play-testing new techniques someone realized "this demo stage is actually quite fun! Let's add it to the game and profit off of it!" 

In fact... the more I think about it, this makes sense.  This stage does everything.  It has to regions, which they had to transition/load into, the water level goes up.  There's a place to practice wall jumps, long jumps, there's rotating platforms, Mario is thrown around, etc.  Yeah, this was a test/demo leve and it was just cleaned up and thrown into the game.

[Andy_Bogomil | 815]

Yeah Lethal Lava is probably one of the more fun levels and can be beat super fast. Love the turtle shell surfing and the winged cap makes getting to anywhere a breeze.

I was also gonna mention the similarities between DDD and JRB and the 100 coins are pretty tedious in both levels.

I think I actually like the Bowser levels the most... maybe because they have that classic Mario platforming. I really like all the levels tbh with the exception of the two swimming levels being a little slow which is why it's such a great game. The bonus level in the sky with the cannons near the end of the game is likely my least favourite thing to do... or possibly getting 100 coins in Rainbow Rd. but that gives a good challenge so I'm not gonna hate on it too much.

[OptOut | 8,884]

I'm not sure what my favourite level is, exactly, in fact I'm pretty sure I don't have one because I like a lot of the levels in different ways.

Rainbow Ride feels like a great reward for getting to the end of the game, I love the energy of that level and all the platforming challenge.

I actually really like Dire Dire Docks, it's probably the most chill level in the game, none of the stars are taxing and I like the swimming in Mario 64.

Dry Wet world is great, that's already getting a lot of love.

Probably surprising for a lot of people, but the level that has grown on me the MOST over time is Hazy Maze Cave! I used to find it impossible to figure out where to go, and always felt a pang of dread as I headed into that stage. But now, so many years later I know exactly where to go and what to do, and I just love all the various different areas and nooks and crannies in the stage! Plus, the underground remix they have is pretty sweet.

Frankly, most of the levels have something to love about them, IMO, I'd happily take on any one of them, any time!

[ZeldaFreak | 3,600]

33 minutes ago, OptOut said:

I'm not sure what my favourite level is, exactly, in fact I'm pretty sure I don't have one because I like a lot of the levels in different ways.

Rainbow Ride feels like a great reward for getting to the end of the game, I love the energy of that level and all the platforming challenge.

I actually really like Dire Dire Docks, it's probably the most chill level in the game, none of the stars are taxing and I like the swimming in Mario 64.

Dry Wet world is great, that's already getting a lot of love.

Probably surprising for a lot of people, but the level that has grown on me the MOST over time is Hazy Maze Cave! I used to find it impossible to figure out where to go, and always felt a pang of dread as I headed into that stage. But now, so many years later I know exactly where to go and what to do, and I just love all the various different areas and nooks and crannies in the stage! Plus, the underground remix they have is pretty sweet.

Frankly, most of the levels have something to love about them, IMO, I'd happily take on any one of them, any time!

Yeah, none of the levels are bad I don't think, some of them I just enjoy far more than others.

Also, I will say that Hazy Maze Cave wasn't actually very maze-like for me, I knew exactly where I was going at all times, I just had an extremely frustrating time with it for whatever reason, hahaha.