The Quintessential Game for Each Genre

[DarkTone | 986]

So.... Metroid was called a "metroidvania" back in the Nintendo power days? 

Adventure / Action adventure maybe. 

[ZeldaFreak | 3,600]

40 minutes ago, DarkTone said:

So.... Metroid was called a "metroidvania" back in the Nintendo power days? 

Adventure / Action adventure maybe. 

The term came about after Symphony of the Night, but by definition the Metroid games are absolutely Metroidvanias, it doesn't matter when the word itself first came in to existence.

[T-Pac | 7,560]

23 hours ago, Reed Rothchild said:

Hah, I'm the opposite.  Personal answers for the win.

Our observations are heavily tainted by our own experiences and biases, so I say lean into it.  Anyone can search Wikipedia and put together a quintessential list.  But only a lifetime body of work can put together a list of how we truly feel.

 

Just my own personal take on these kinds of things.

Fair point. It's ironic - I’m the guy who rants about how there’s no such thing as purely objective analysis, but I hadn’t even considered personal preference as a factor here haha.
I don’t think it’s difficult to acknowledge when a game you’re less fond of reflects the fundamentals of its genre best, but I think you’re right that when multiple games are equally representative it only makes sense that you’d give the nod to your favorite. And of course you can only really pick from games you’re familiar with, which is largely games you like.

[T-Pac]

[T-Pac | 7,560]

15 hours ago, ZeldaFreak said:

Iiinteresting, that makes sense but that's actually a slightly different approach to what I did. I went with options that I felt had honed in on and fine-tuned their given genres to perfection, but if I went with more, like you say, "distilled, pure" examples of any given genre, that would change several of my answers (and then I'd have to agree with Sumez that something like Street Fighter II would be a better pick for fighting games.) I went with games that I felt, as a whole, encapsulated the best of their respective genres, rather than the most "pure" examples of their genres. Almost all of my picks have aspects about them that deviate from more pure examples of their genres, but to me like I was saying earlier, that doesn't exclude something from being a very good example of its genre.

Now there’s a topic that deserves its own thread, too - "What games perfected their genre?"

Also - that explains your choices a lot better. I can’t imagine showing someone Smash Bros and going - “this is what fighting games are like”. They’d be so confused and lost the moment they tried to play literally any other 1-on-1 fighter haha.

[T-Pac]

[T-Pac | 7,560]

15 hours ago, ZeldaFreak said:

Also you better come up with a list of your own at some point man, you can't ask a question like this and not answer it yourself, haha.

I'm only familiar with a handful of genres enough to make an educated decision, but here you go...

Maze Game: Ms. Pac-Man
(I would've gone with Pac-Man, but I think RH is right here. Ms. Pac-Man has variation in its layouts, which is much more standard in maze games.)

Platformer: Felix the Cat
(My instinct was Super Mario Bros. or Super Mario World., but I think the attack mechanics and life-system in Felix the Cat are more indicative of most platformers.)

Action Platformer: Ninja Gaiden
(Mega Man 2 was also a strong contender for this one, but I was wary about its more unique aspects, like the weapon system.)

Run 'N Gun: Metal Slug
(I've hardly played any Metal Slug or run 'n gun games in general, so take this with a grain of salt.)

Beat-Em-Up: Streets of Rage
(Same thing as with run 'n guns.)

Fixed Shoot-Em-Up: Galaga

Scrolling Shoot-Em-Up: Solar Striker
(Truxton might be an equally good pick for this one - I'm torn.)

Puzzler: Columns
(Match-3, falling-block puzzle games don't get much more distilled than this.)

Action Puzzler: Adventures of Lolo
(Action Puzzlers come in a lot of varieties - Solomon's Key and Kickle Cubicle are so different, but still the same genre. So I could be swayed in several directions on this one.)

[T-Pac]

 

[ZeldaFreak | 3,600]

14 minutes ago, T-Pac said:

I can’t imagine showing someone Smash Bros and going - “this is what fighting games are like”. They’d be so confused and lost the moment they tried to play literally any other 1-on-1 fighter haha.

[T-Pac]

Man, controversial choice for that genre huh? Haha.

...I also (like with Sumez) think you over-exaggerate the differences between Smash Bros. and more traditional fighting games but that's another topic for another day, haha.

Like I said, if we went purely by the logic of the most "distilled" forms of any given genre, then most of my entire list would be different.

If we go by the dictionary definition of quintessential here...

It could mean either the most "perfect" OR "typical" example of something, so either approach would be totally valid for this question.

5 minutes ago, T-Pac said:

(I've hardly played any Metal Slug or run 'n gun games in general)

[T-Pac]

Well, might I recommend...

More people need to play Contra III honestly, I feel like it's largely overshadowed by the earlier NES entries, but it's SO damn good, and the better hardware allows it to be (or at least feel) a bit more fast-paced, which I think hugely benefits it, although that can be kinda rough if you don't have great hand-eye coordination, haha.

Plus, man, the music is SO good.

[a3quit4s | 4,103]

The first thought I had was farming sim and stardew valley

the second though I had was like rails shooter and time crisis

can SoTN be the best metroidvania because it’s a castlevania that defined the genre? If not hollow knight I think

[T-Pac | 7,560]

@ZeldaFreak true. I think "quintessential" was a bad word-choice on my part. Should've been "indicative" or "representative", probably.

(And beware of starting a "Is Smash Bros. a fighting game?" topic. I've seen them before, and nothing good can come of it haha.)

[T-Pac]

[ZeldaFreak | 3,600]

8 minutes ago, T-Pac said:

@ZeldaFreak true. I think "quintessential" was a bad word-choice on my part. Should've been "indicative" or "representative", probably.

(And beware of starting a "Is Smash Bros. a fighting game?" topic. I've seen them before, and nothing good can come of it haha.)

[T-Pac]

Oh well, I think your original choice of words is better anyway since it leaves a lot more room for interpretation, which I think leads to better discussion anyway

Also eh, it's a hill I don't really care to die on since I don't really like fighting games anyway, haha. Smash Bros. Ultimate is just one of the few that I do enjoy.

[Link | 2,715]

57 minutes ago, T-Pac said:

 

(And beware of starting a "Is Smash Bros. a fighting game?" topic. I've seen them before, and nothing good can come of it haha.)

DO IT  

[DarkTone | 986]

5 hours ago, T-Pac said:

Now there’s a topic that deserves its own thread, too - "What games perfected their genre?"

Also - that explains your choices a lot better. I can’t imagine showing someone Smash Bros and going - “this is what fighting games are like”. They’d be so confused and lost the moment they tried to play literally any other 1-on-1 fighter haha.

[T-Pac]

Thats a great thread idea!

[Gentlegamer | 174]

15 hours ago, ZeldaFreak said:

The term came about after Symphony of the Night, but by definition the Metroid games are absolutely Metroidvanias, it doesn't matter when the word itself first came in to existence.

Metroid is action-adventure (same genre as Legend of Zelda series, except Zelda II).

Castlevania Symphony of the Night (and other similar Castlevanias) are action-RPG (like Zelda II). Just because it has a map screen that looks like Super Metroid doesn't group it in with Metroid.

While it  ultimately doesn't matter, I'm not fond of coining Nth new genres because of superficial similarities, it's bad enough "survival horror" became a "genre" when they are really action-adventure games, but everyone swallowed Capcom's marketing buzzword for Resident Evil.

That said, when Steam first started having user-tags, I put "DOOM Clone" on every first person shooter.

 

[ZeldaFreak | 3,600]

2 minutes ago, Gentlegamer said:

Metroid is action-adventure (same genre as Legend of Zelda series, except Zelda II).

Castlevania Symphony of the Night (and other similar Castlevanias) are action-RPG (like Zelda II). Just because it has a map screen that looks like Super Metroid doesn't group it in with Metroid.

While it  ultimately doesn't matter, I'm not fond of coining Nth new genres because of superficial similarities, it's bad enough "survival horror" became a "genre" when they are really action-adventure games, but everyone swallowed Capcom's marketing buzzword for Resident Evil.

That said, when Steam first started having user-tags, I put "DOOM Clone" on every first person shooter.

I mean, dude, it's not just the map screen, the base concept and gameplay loop of the games are literally almost identical. Why do you think someone thought to coin a term that combines the names of those two franchises in particular? They're extremely similar in nearly every regard, literally the only fundamental difference I can really think of is that in the Metroid games your main method of attack is to shoot, whereas with CV games it's generally melee, though even then, especially in the later games there are also ranged weapons. And I suppose if you really want to nitpick, the CV games tend to be slightly more expansive than the Metroid games.

I just don't see how you can look at something like, say, Super Metroid, then look at Symphony of the Night (again, not just the map screens, the games themselves) and deny them being at all similar, haha. They're both under the umbrella of Metroidvania, even if, semantically, one is technically sci-fi action-adventure and one is technically action fantasy/RPG. That's just the flavor though, that really has nothing at all to do with the actual gameplay itself which, like I said, is nearly identical between the two. Not wanting to retroactively apply labels to things is totally fair, I get that, but... I mean like I said, I just genuinely cannot comprehend how someone could not see all the blatant similarities between the post-SoTN CV games and the Metroid games, haha. They are similar in more ways than they are dissimilar.

In regards to survival horror, I don't mean for this to come across as rude whatsoever, just genuinely asking since I haven't really talked to you much before, do you have much experience with more modern games? Because these days, survival horror is absolutely a distinctive genre from plain jane action-adventure, there are multiple games and franchises that fall firmly within that category that wouldn't really fit all that well in to plain ol' action-adventure. Alien Isolation being a very good example actually. Really terrific game by the way, would highly recommend it to anyone, especially if you're a fan of any of the Alien movies, but even if not it's great on its own.

[Rhuno | 108]

Metroidvania isn’t a thing. Symphony of the Night is just a Metroidlike.

[DefaultGen | 5,414]

14 minutes ago, Rhuno said:

Metroidvania isn’t a thing. Symphony of the Night is just a Metroidlike.

As someone who only played the first DS, was Bloodbourne distinct and influential enough to co-opt itself onto the "Soulsbourne" genre or is Bloodbourne the SOTN leech of that genre name?

[DefaultGen | 5,414]

And if Bloodbourne just portmonteaued itself into the genre name because it was particularly good, if Elden Ring is better does the genre name become Soulsring now? Stop putting game titles in genres. Ahhhhh.

Edit: My sources are telling me Soulsbourne only refers to Soulslikes developed by From Software, so you can say "My favorite Soulslikes are the Soulsbournes". God.

Edited November 8, 2023 by DefaultGen

[Gloves | 11,794]

1 minute ago, DefaultGen said:

As someone who only played the first DS, was Bloodbourne distinct and influential enough to co-opt itself onto the "Soulsbourne" genre or is Bloodbourne the SOTN leech of that genre name?

 

Just now, DefaultGen said:

And if Bloodbourne just portmonteaued itself into the genre name because it was particularly good, if Elden Ring is better does the genre name become Soulsring now? Stop putting game titles in genres. Ahhhhh.

 

Soulsbourne encompasses technically 3 "series", as it were - Demon's Souls, Dark Souls, and Bloodbourne. If we need to ask how Elden Ring fits into some new name, I think we need to include Sekiro too.

RingBourne SekSouls.

[ZeldaFreak | 3,600]

4 minutes ago, DefaultGen said:

And if Bloodbourne just portmonteaued itself into the genre name because it was particularly good, if Elden Ring is better does the genre name become Soulsring now? Stop putting game titles in genres. Ahhhhh.

I mean it's not really an issue so long as it remains consistent and isn't changed every generation, haha. It's just a way to make categorizing games easier as more and more games come out that fit in to more and more specific niches.

[Brickman | 3,995]

Metroidvania is well and truly a genre now, deal with it  I was listening to a Japanese gaming podcast and even they use the term Metroidvania in Japan! Although they call Beat 'em Ups, Belt Scroller Action which I had never heard before. 

Things evolve and names get put on things to help segment them (it's what humans like to do). It's the same with music and movie genres. Your head would spin if you took a look at just a small amount of metal genres!

Also, Smash Bros is a fighting game.

[DefaultGen | 5,414]

Belt scroller is such a cooler name than beat 'em up or brawler. One sounds like Toys R Us and the other one is what people call beat 'em ups when they're wrong.

[fox | 1,668]

Windjammers duh

[RH | 4,922]

17 hours ago, Brickman said:

Metroidvania is well and truly a genre now, deal with it  I was listening to a Japanese gaming podcast and even they use the term Metroidvania in Japan! Although they call Beat 'em Ups, Belt Scroller Action which I had never heard before. 

Things evolve and names get put on things to help segment them (it's what humans like to do). It's the same with music and movie genres. Your head would spin if you took a look at just a small amount of metal genres!

Also, Smash Bros is a fighting game.

I hate Smash, personally.

And yes, it's a fighter.  It's just radically different in how you perform... everything.  How is this a debate?  You fight one on one, or one on many, and your goal is to "fight" your opponents until you are the lone-survivor.

It also may not have a life bar, but that's like saying a game isn't an RPG because it doesn't have an ATB gauge.

[ZeldaFreak | 3,600]

9 minutes ago, RH said:

It also may not have a life bar, but that's like saying a game isn't an RPG because it doesn't have an ATB gauge.

I mean, I would argue it does

It's just a somewhat non-traditional life bar.

[RH | 4,922]

16 hours ago, ZeldaFreak said:

I mean, I would argue it does

It's just a somewhat non-traditional life bar.

I've legit only played Smash for less than a few hours, on N64 and Wii.  If you hit Zero are you dead?  I thought the whole, real point was to knock your opponent off of the ledge?

[ZeldaFreak | 3,600]

On 11/9/2023 at 7:31 AM, RH said:

I've legit only played Smash for less than a few hours, on N64 and Wii.  If you hit Zero are you dead?  I thought the whole, real point was to knock your opponent off of the ledge?

That is the point- the way it works in Smash Bros is that your "life bar" is a percentage, which starts at 0%. Every time you take a hit, that percentage goes up, how much it goes up depends on the attack you got hit with, how powerful it is, etc. The higher that percentage is, the further you get knocked back when you get hit. So you start at 0%, you barely get knocked back at all when you get hit with anything. At 50%, you start flying back a little more when you get hit, at 100% you start really flying back, but as long as you don't get hit by particularly powerful attacks you'll probably be fine, and then by 300% if you get hit by pretty much anything you'll get sent careening across the whole screen. The end goal is still to knock your opponent far enough in any direction off-screen, but the percentage meter essentially acts as a pseudo-life bar to assist in that goal.