so apparently Redfall is horrendous...

[avatar! | 1,927]

Xbox Apologizes for Redfall Flop by Throwing Its Developer Under the Bus

https://www.inverse.com/gaming/xbox-throws-redfall-dev-under-bus

The launch of Redfall has been a bloodbath. Reviews are quick to point out the many problems in the latest AAA Xbox exclusive from developer Arkane Studios. Many feel the game is unfinished, which is supported by the prevalence of bugs. With a lack of tentpole titles, Xbox gamers are growing increasingly dissatisfied with the platform and want answers. In response, Xbox CEO Phil Spencer told Kinda Funny Xcast on May 4 that Redfall had an issue with “creative vision.”

Spencer is placing the blame on Arkane for a failure of “creative vision.” This is just the latest issue that Arkane has dealt with when it comes to its games. Despite the widespread critical acclaim of the studio’s immersive sims like Dishonored 1 & 2 ,the games weren’t selling well enough. So the studio pivoted to making Deathloop, which fell into the trendy roguelike genre. Redfall seems to also be chasing industry trends, but doing it too late.

Spencer, like any politician/management-level individual, is great at pointing fingers! Everyone knows, the failure lies with Spencer and all such people that simply did not give Arkane enough time to complete the game. Reviews I saw said the game needed at least 1 more year before it was ready for launch, but obviously those in charge said "naaaah, it's good enough, we need $$$" -- guess gamers aren't willing to give up their $70 for a broken piece of trash - who knew

Spencer:

“If a think about a team’s execution on a game. We had a creative vision and did we realize that vision through the game we created? That’s not a delay question if the answer is no. You can’t take something that, that you started on — this isn’t a Redfall-specific conversation — but we will build games that review int he high 80s, and we will build games that review in the 60s.

It’s just kind of part of being in games publishing. If you are afraid of that, you shouldn’t be in the entertainment business, you shouldn’t be in the games business. That said, every time we deliver something below our own internal expectations, that surprises us, and we should check our process."

[Reed Rothchild | 9,900]

Yeah, Arkane had basically a 100% track record up until this point, so MS needs to look into the accountability on their end.  

Major shame too, because when MS has been successful it pushes Sony to improve.  You have to have competition.  But MS can barely be bothered anymore.  Which basically just leaves two consumer-unfriendly companies: Nintendo and Sony, both trying to engulf different spheres of the market.  You can't have a monopoly develop in the scene and have good results.

I say that as someone who has only bought Sony and Nintendo for the last generation or two.

[Gloves | 12,221]

Video games are a business, remember. Billions per year. AAA simply isn't the place to look if you want passion projects, and that should be common knowledge by now. I've never heard of Redfall until today and I couldn't care less about it or the news surrounding it. 

[fox | 1,757]

Redfall is so last week.  Let's get ahead of the negativity train and start dog piling on Zelda already!

[Reed Rothchild | 9,900]

1 hour ago, fox said:

Redfall is so last week.  Let's get ahead of the negativity train and start dog piling on Zelda already!

Don't forget FFVXI in a month.  Our haterade cup overfloweth.

[fox | 1,757]

1 hour ago, Reed Rothchild said:

Don't forget FFVXI in a month.  Our haterade cup overfloweth.

Even before that Diablo 4 is going to make me stand up and scream at my computer screen

[spacepup | 2,481]

Im looking forward to and have pre-ordered all 3 of those haha!

 

[Sumez | 3,127]

Apparently this game I've never heard about prior to release, but which looks absolutely boring as hell isn't great 

[Brickman | 4,186]

2 hours ago, Sumez said:

Apparently this game I've never heard about prior to release, but which looks absolutely boring as hell isn't great 

I'm up to date on most modern game news (usually scan Destructoid and Famitsu) and even I've never even heard of this game, it looks so generic and uninspired that I'm not surprised it's getting bad reviews.

[spacepup | 2,481]

This game wasn't on my radar, so I had no preconceptions with it.  I watched the trailer, and then I watched some live play of it, and while it didn't look like the most amazing game ever, I didn't think it looked like anything *horrible.*  I mean, the people playing it from the video I watched seemed to be having fun and it wasn't some promotional video, it was just people playing.

If the issues are technical, maybe they will fix it with updates or do a re-release.  

I've played lots of games over the years that seemed way worse, so I don't know  it makes me wonder if the game is THAT bad, or if it somehow starts getting negative reviews and then people see those and it frames their opinions? I have no idea.  Or maybe it's just really bad, who knows.

I mean, I definitely won't be shelling out $70 right now to find out, but I would try the game later at some point just to see, if it was super cheap (which, at this point....it kinda seems it will be at some point hah!)

[avatar! | 1,927]

Redfall genuinely seems terrible - simply should not have been released.

https://www.ign.com/articles/redfall-review

An undercooked looter-shooter by every metric, Redfall’s chief problem is that it’s simply not ready to be played. By the halfway mark of the story – when it shifts to the second of its two separate open-world maps – I was already thoroughly underwhelmed by the bland missions, weak combat, and repeated technical problems I’d seen. Of course, I’d held out hope for the possibility that things would crescendo as it approached its conclusion; that an imaginative finale might make jostling with all the jank worth a Game Pass glance for vampire junkies and co-op crews. Unfortunately, it doesn’t get better. If anything, it gets worse – like the delayed reaction of a knock to the crotch.

[Reed Rothchild | 9,900]

6 hours ago, spacepup said:

I've played lots of games over the years that seemed way worse, so I don't know  it makes me wonder if the game is THAT bad, or if it somehow starts getting negative reviews and then people see those and it frames their opinions? I have no idea.  Or maybe it's just really bad, who knows.

The internet loves a dogpile, especially if they smell blood in the water.

Add me to the count of people who had never heard of this game, even though I'm a big Arkane guy.

[avatar! | 1,927]

I think the vast majority of us have never heard of Redfall because we do not play on the Xbone. I remember two generations ago I was a big fan of the 360, thought it was the best of the 7th gen systems. Then, as most apropos for Microsoft, they mucked things up - here is a great article

How Xbox Lost the 'Console Wars'

https://gamerant.com/xbox-lost-console-wars-why-how-phil-spencer-sony-playstation-nintendo-switch/

While the Xbox 360 had serious momentum behind it, the Xbox One stumbled out of the gate with its plans for absolutely bizarre, anti-consumer online requirements and used game restrictions. The Xbox One effectively lost the sales competition with the PS4 before it even really started. Now it seems Xbox isn't quite as focused on selling consoles as it once was. Head of Xbox Phil Spencer recently acknowledged this on the Kinda Funny Games podcast, saying, "We're not in the business of out-consoling Sony or out-consoling Nintendo. There isn't really a great solution or win for us. I know that will upset a ton of people, but that's just the truth of the matter." Spencer also claimed that even if upcoming Xbox console exclusive game Starfield were a breakout 11 out of 10 hit, it wouldn't cause people to start selling their PS5s and jump ship to Xbox.

Spencer's argument is that even if Xbox delivers an incredible 11/10 game people won't jump ship from PlayStation, but the theory hasn't really been tested...Take Halo Infinite, for example. Despite Halo being Xbox's flagship franchise, Halo Infinite was saddled with a head-scratching monetization scheme and content droughts that obliterated its community despite many agreeing that the actual core gameplay was quite good.

Spencer's claim that Microsoft can't produce a game so good that it would make people leave PlayStation for Xbox hasn't really been tested. And it won't ever be tested because even if Microsoft produces a killer app on the level of the original Halo or Gears of War for modern Xbox consoles, it still won't be a true exclusive. Xbox-published games release on PC the same day they're on Xbox. This might be consumer-friendly, but it gives people little reason to get an Xbox.

It's clear that Xbox has lost the console wars. However, it gave up truly trying to win them years ago.

 

 

[a3quit4s | 4,300]

Haven’t played this but two thoughts:

I got CyberPunk 2077 on release day for Xbox Series X and while it did crash once or twice, it was a phenomenal experience. It was largely criticized just as this game is.  People tend to speak up louder when they have a negative experience over a positive one. 
 

In the age of software delivery, we are all just beta testers. Although, Xbox players should enjoy a glitch and crash free experience because a console only has one or two configurations. PC players should be the ones really experiencing issues. I can’t imagine it’s easy to make a game that looks out of this world on a 24GB graphics card but also runs on a 4-8GB card. 
 

Either way, we should not be preordering and always waiting for the first major patch. Get the game cheaper and a better experience. 
 

edit: Plus Xbox has never really been close to PlayStation in sales so I’m not sure why it’s such an issue now lol. Outside the states no one cares about Xbox. 

Edited May 8, 2023 by a3quit4s

[Reed Rothchild | 9,900]

31 minutes ago, a3quit4s said:

Haven’t played this but two thoughts:

I got CyberPunk 2077 on release day for Xbox Series X and while it did crash once or twice, it was a phenomenal experience. It was largely criticized just as this game is.  People tend to speak up louder when they have a negative experience over a positive one. 

Not only that, but it's supposed to be rather wonderful now.  I bought it for $10 and plan to play on my PS5 next year.  Looking forward to it.

[Strange | 1,727]

@avatar! please dont take this post as me calling you or this thread out. I appreciate you posting articles! I’m just speaking generally about the industry today, not about this thread or even Redfall in particular.

I’ve complained about this elsewhere but it’s so hard to tell if a poorly-reviewed game is ever genuinely bad anymore or just a mediocre experience with the alarm bells blaring.

Not saying Redfall is good (hadn’t heard of it before the release) but this sort of dogpiling happens these days on any game that isn’t a 12 out of 10. Games that are just fine instead of a masterpiece are considered a personal insult to a lot of gamers these days.

It’s just exhausting. Makes YouTube unnavigable. But like others here have said, start sharpening your pitchforks and practicing your YouTube face because Zelda and Final Fantasy have some big releases coming up and the internet loves a downfall story more than anything else.

[Strange | 1,727]

Regarding the Xbox talk:

I have the three major consoles. Xbox has the nicest UI and ecosystem in my opinion, but yeah it’s lacking in those tentpole/franchise areas. And you need to have those along with third party support. 

Edited May 8, 2023 by Strange

[a3quit4s | 4,300]

2 hours ago, Reed Rothchild said:

Not only that, but it's supposed to be rather wonderful now.  I bought it for $10 and plan to play on my PS5 next year.  Looking forward to it.

You may or may not be able to acquire a dildo as a weapon and beat people to death with it. 
 

10/10

Edited May 8, 2023 by a3quit4s

[avatar! | 1,927]

2 hours ago, Strange said:

@avatar! please dont take this post as me calling you or this thread out. I appreciate you posting articles! I’m just speaking generally about the industry today, not about this thread or even Redfall in particular.

I’ve complained about this elsewhere but it’s so hard to tell if a poorly-reviewed game is ever genuinely bad anymore or just a mediocre experience with the alarm bells blaring.

Not saying Redfall is good (hadn’t heard of it before the release) but this sort of dogpiling happens these days on any game that isn’t a 12 out of 10. Games that are just fine instead of a masterpiece are considered a personal insult to a lot of gamers these days.

It’s just exhausting. Makes YouTube unnavigable. But like others here have said, start sharpening your pitchforks and practicing your YouTube face because Zelda and Final Fantasy have some big releases coming up and the internet loves a downfall story more than anything else.

That's a very valid concern. I personally feel that many "professional" reviewers also give games far too high a score. Gamers, at least angry/asinine gamers, will as you noted complain about anything and everything. That said, what I look for in deciding whether to spend my $ is people that I feel give fair and balanced reviews - this includes "professional" reviews such as IGN, gamer reviews on Steam and on youtube. The reviews for Redfall are universally negative - this is a game that is incomplete and  should never have been released. In a year or two, maybe it will be amazing assuming they actually spend a lot of time on improving this game, but right now it's a joke -

 

[avatar! | 1,927]

2 hours ago, Reed Rothchild said:

Not only that, but it's supposed to be rather wonderful now.  I bought it for $10 and plan to play on my PS5 next year.  Looking forward to it.

I feel that the complaints against the game when it came out were absolutely appropriate. It's a AAA game and CD Projekt promised an amazing experience, and when the game came out it was anything but that. Three years later, sure it may be a fabulous experience now and actually, if they have a physical PS5 release (not the PS4 release but a brand new PS5 release) I will also get it! But, that still does not change the fact that that release was a disaster and all the negative reviews were deserved.

[Reed Rothchild | 9,900]

12 minutes ago, avatar! said:

I feel that the complaints against the game when it came out were absolutely appropriate. It's a AAA game and CD Projekt promised an amazing experience, and when the game came out it was anything but that. Three years later, sure it may be a fabulous experience now and actually, if they have a physical PS5 release (not the PS4 release but a brand new PS5 release) I will also get it! But, that still does not change the fact that that release was a disaster and all the negative reviews were deserved.

That may be.  I generally never adopt early, but if I was it probably would have been disappointing.

I also work in software, so I'm sympathetic.  Delivering a product is hard.  Especially in gaming, where it's only getting harder.  It's why I think Blood, Sweat and Pixels should be mandatory reading for all software companies.

But if at the end of the day the game is (eventually) good, that should be the final word on it.

[Strange | 1,727]

4 hours ago, avatar! said:

That's a very valid concern. I personally feel that many "professional" reviewers also give games far too high a score. Gamers, at least angry/asinine gamers, will as you noted complain about anything and everything. That said, what I look for in deciding whether to spend my $ is people that I feel give fair and balanced reviews - this includes "professional" reviews such as IGN, gamer reviews on Steam and on youtube. The reviews for Redfall are universally negative - this is a game that is incomplete and  should never have been released. In a year or two, maybe it will be amazing assuming they actually spend a lot of time on improving this game, but right now it's a joke -

 

Agreed on the fact that some games are reviewed too high. Sometimes you can just tell when a high score isn’t genuine.

And yeah, I agree it looks like a mess. Some bad reviews are warranted too. My post, overall, was about when like a B or C tier game gets ragged on for not being the second coming and it snowballs as YouTubers pick it up. And how those instances make it harder overall to really discern if a game is actually bad or not when looking at just scores.

I’m just being an old man looking to rant  but overall I agree with your points.

[Strange | 1,727]

4 hours ago, Reed Rothchild said:

That may be.  I generally never adopt early, but if I was it probably would have been disappointing.

I also work in software, so I'm sympathetic.  Delivering a product is hard.  Especially in gaming, where it's only getting harder.  It's why I think Blood, Sweat and Pixels should be mandatory reading for all software companies.

But if at the end of the day the game is (eventually) good, that should be the final word on it.

My “non-expert” opinion is this:

Games should look worse and take longer to come out. Both for the sake of the product and the workers who make them.

I’ve never worked in the biz though

[Sumez | 3,127]

10 hours ago, Strange said:

But like others here have said, start sharpening your pitchforks and practicing your YouTube face because Zelda and Final Fantasy have some big releases coming up and the internet loves a downfall story more than anything else.

If the new Final Fantasy actually sucks that won't be much of a downfall, more like a continuation of the trend. If it turns out good it would be a nice rebound.

[DoctorEncore | 3,691]

Such a bummer. Was really looking forward to playing this in co-op with my brother and friends. Turns out there is no co-op progression for the guest player, so you lose everything when the session ends. I can't believe they're still making games with that kind of ridiculous restriction in 2023. It's pretty obvious that this was meant as an online, games-as-a-service title that took a heavy pivot sometime during development.

I hope MS gives them a year or so to work on it to see if they can turn it into something better. If not, I hope they immediately trash it and go back to what they do well.