goldenpp72

2 hours ago, MrWunderful said:

Awesome write up. Never knew whomp em was one, did jaleco buy the rights from hudson soft, or was it a “spiritual successor”?

I think Jaleco merely published it, but it isn't in itself a Wonder Boy game in that it isn't based on any of those games, just a sequel to Saiyuki World on the Famicom which was based from a Wonder Boy game. It's a bit weird to think about this situation because typically a publisher owns the whole deal in anything they work with, like Microsoft owns the IP and game code for Scalebound ensuring it can never be released without them, which is fair because they bank rolled it. I'm curious in this situation who actually funded the base creation of the games Westone worked on, was it just them who then shopped it out and different publishers got to rebrand it?

Unfortunately I haven't been able to find much clarity there, but it is an interesting situation all around.

2 hours ago, Red said:

This paragraph is a bit confusing.  It looks like forgot to mention that the original Saiyūki World for Famicom was a reskin/modified port of Wonder Boy in Monster Land.  I reads like you're saying that Saiyūki World 2 on Famicom is the sequel to Bikkuriman World for PC engine.

I think I criss crossed a bit of the information there when trying to edit, but I'll try to make it more clear unless someone has a better way of putting it, the PC Engine got Bikkuriman while the Famicom 'version' was Saiyuki World, so I tried to clarify that, hopefully that works!

Surprised I never saw this, I did beat Kirby's Dreamland 2 this year, but that's all I can think of that I didn't use save states on anyways  

Very cool, if you don't mind I'll add it to my post, though if you do mind, I can also remove it

Added a few biggies today and decided to cobble them together with other recent NES heavies as they say, I believe I'm officially retiring from the NES CIB scene at around 350 titles, but I'm very happy with how it all looks finally. I have about 10 more to find between GB and SNES before I can be content with all retro Nintendo!

There's always a bigger fish, but I could see that valuation, I have about 9,500-10,000 titles and It's estimated to be valued around 800k or so, just really depends on what kind of stuff you have.

4 minutes ago, Sumez said:

Someone made a really awesome graphical chart of all the Wonderboy games, reskins, offshoots and their own sequels. I wish I could still find that picture... 

I'm intimately familiar with all those games at this point, but I think they'd be pretty useful to most people who are still confused about the series

I actually spent a lot of time trying to find a really good graph or 'flow chart' of sorts, I found a couple but none of them really seemed all that definitive, but if someone does have anything they should definitely post it. For a set collector, it's easily among the most interesting puzzles to decipher. 

42 minutes ago, MrWunderful said:

@goldenpp72 you can live happily with the thought that even in the case that you had a disc that was so bad from damage or rot it didn’t work, “disc only” games drive a far less premium than a “cart only”. Or you could send it to @Pats1717 because he has a disc fixing machine. 

 

Actually, lets get @Pats1717 opinion on disc based  collection reconditioning. Do you see a lot of badly scratched discs that you can get to work with your machine? Would you have an estimated success rate? 

I actually recently procured a fantastic disc repair machine that I'm going to use to repair/clean any games I deem will need it, it's essentially in the upper tier of what a consumer can achieve in terms of both repair and having a more proper looking finish, as it were. With that said, even a game that looks flawless and has never been resurfaced, can still be damaged in ways there is no way to repair, or in ways that will differ in terms of response from machine to machine. I think most disc collectors make peace with this aspect pretty early on in turn, but it will take me months to go through and repair any disc that I have since it's a bit over 3000 disc, but I suspect I won't need to work on more than 700 or so at all.. Hopefully. I plan to offload the machine once I'm finished with it since I don't collect disc anymore though, so hopefully it will help someone else down the line. I put in some photos, it's unique in that it has a pad that helps remove the 'swirls' often left, or at least diminish them significantly.

Before Buff

Post buff prior to polishing

Post polishing

Before

After buff/polish

Tedious, but cool all around!

Anyone who knows about my collecting method would know that the heart of my collecting is hunting down sets for various series. I know I'll never know all the various things I'm missing because I still discover new things every so often, but it's still a fun and interesting facet of the hobby, and one of the few feelings of 'discovery' that remains for me within it. I've been going at this series for probably a decade, with Dynastic Hero being the last addition that I know of. There is an upcoming PS5 release for Monster Boy and the Cursed Kingdom, and SLG released a remake/redo of the first Wonder Boy on PS4/Switch, but I wanted to keep this topic strictly focused on the US side. If anyone has any insights or corrections please feel free, but I figured I could share just in case anyone would be interested. This goes well beyond the retail US releases when you decide to cross regions, arcades, etc, so I'll just be focusing on running down the US retail releases. I took some pictures below, but this ended up being difficult because I was trying to make the games somewhat adjacent to each other, resulting in weird shots to try and take, sorry about that.

Anyways, it all begins with Wonder Boy in the Arcade and then release to the Sega Master System, to my understanding the actual name of Wonder Boy is owned by Sega, but the game itself was developed by Westone Bit Entertainment (formerly known as Escape). They basically make the games and Sega owns that brand, but things become confusing from there because the rights to publish the actual game itself can be shopped around to other publishers. In the earliest instance I know of, Adventure Island for the NES is effectively a reskin of Wonder Boy and published by Hudson Soft, creating a sort of alternate timeline from there. Adventure Island II, 3 (not sure why they went to normal numbers there, but hey) and Super Adventure Island/Super Adventure Island II are original games that are simply part of the Adventure Island series, with Adventure Island and Adventure Island 2 on Game Boy actually being interpretations of Adventure Island II and 3 from the NES. New Adventure Island is a sort of remake/reimagining of the first game for the TG16, but it has enough original content and changes to be a new game in my mind.

You would think from here it becomes linear, as rights and things of that nature did often get confusing as did naming schemes back then, but that isn't the case. Despite that Sega owns the rights to the name Wonder Boy, the Game Gear port of that game is actually Revenge of Drancon, based on the box and name, I assume this was an effort to try and make the game match their grittier, more teen oriented focus of that point in time, but they are effectively the same game. 

Wonder Boy in Monster Land would be the first traditional sequel to the original, and it's also the game that kind of cemented the most popular design for the series, in Japan a reskin of this game was also released on the PC Engine titled Bikkuriman World. A version similar to that titled Saiyūki World came to the Famicom with I believe more changes while effectively being the same game. This created another Adventure Island like situation due to being followed by Saiyūki World 2 which was not based from a Wonder Boy title, and this game was retitled and released in the US as Whomp 'Em. This one seems to be the least known connection, or least cared about which makes sense, it isn't really a Wonder Boy title just like any Adventure Island title beyond the first game is not, but the connection exist in some superficial way.

It gets easier from here right? Not really. The next entry in the series was a bit divisive, likely similar to how Zelda II was because people wanted the formula established in Monster Land to continue, and it did not here. Sega themselves did not release the title Wonder Boy III: Monster Lair in the US, likely because it wasn't received as favorably and the SMS wasn't exactly on fire here as it were, but an entry of it DID release here. In this case, published for the Turbo CD line by NEC I believe, simply titled Monster Lair. This is the official third entry yet it never had a US release by the Wonder Boy owners at Sega, which resulted in another confusion, another title with the number III involved.

A traditional sequel to the second game did release titled Wonder Boy III: The Dragon's Trap, this title did get a US release by Sega for the SMS and is a highly praised follow up to the second game, TG16 got its own version of this title, simply titled Dragon's Curse, along with remakes put out for the PS4/Xbox One/Switch (though only PS4/Switch at retail to my knowledge). With this being the sequel Sega decided to release in the US, it creates a situation similar to Final Fantasy II/III on the SNES in which it really was the fourth game despite being given the label of the third game.

To add to the confusion, a new entry was made, and Sega did publish an entry in the US for the Genesis titled Wonder Boy in Monster World, making it effectively the fifth entry, Dynastic Hero is a reskin of this game put out by Hudson Soft for the Super CD side of the TG16, this being the most expensive entry in the series here.

Monster World IV is essentially the sixth entry in the series, which did not release in the US originally (what you see in the photo is a reproduction from a long time ago). I assume both the fact it stars a girl and its late release were factors to not bother bringing it to the US, but a 3d remake was done as well as a physical release of the Wonder Boy collections which also include it. The game has also appeared in various digital store fronts, so it isn't lost and is often considered the best game in the series.

Finally this brings us to the release of Monster Boy and the Cursed Kingdom, which is effectively available on all modern platforms, and is the latest entry of the series. Interestingly, I recall there being discourse about this title way back in the day, stating it would not be a 'true' sequel, however I began a playthrough recently and ran into this area pretty early in, while I don't think this is debated any further, it was funny to see it cemented. Here are the other heroes from prior entries. I imagine this discourse existed because the game didn't originally start as a licensed product, but based on its themes and design, it very much deserves to be there.

That basically sums up the best I could find on this series, there does exist a release titled Wonder Boy Returns which I believe is part a remake and an original title all in one, but there was no ESRB rated physical release in the US, you can however still buy it digitally or find the SLG release still I'm sure. If anyone has anything to add or correct I'd love to know, otherwise I hope someone enjoyed this bizarre run down, as I had quite a time trying to get it all together myself. Here are some poorly shot photos attempting to make some level of adjacency with them.

Thanks to Sumez for finding this flow chart too!

38 minutes ago, LeatherRebel5150 said:

How about disc games and whether or not they work, if you collect disc based stuff? Personally I don’t for the very reason they may not work

Disc based stuff there isn't much point in 'testing', even if they start fine, they may run into various issues as you go, basically if the cosmetic condition is good and I see no signs of disc rot, I just operate that they are likely fine because in reality, some disc will simply fail even if they look pristine, it's just a very real thing people have to accept. Unless you're willing to essentially play through every single game entirely anyways, at least with cart based titles, simply having them boot for a moment is usually sufficient if they are genuine. 

The reality is when someone sells you a tested disc, they usually just mean they let it run for a bit and maybe even hit various points in an attract mode, and did not notice any issues, but you might play your 80 hour JRPG and end up hitting a snag later in as well, I figure I won't worry about that until I actually go to play the games fully, and if not, ignorance is bliss since I don't intend to sell this stuff.

I own about 3000 disc titles, so I can basically assume at least a couple have some kind of issues I won't be aware of, but it is what it is. There is also the variable of aging original hardware, replica replacement parts, etc. Many people are using non original hardware to repair/modify original hardware to get things to work, but between that, age, etc, some original hardware will run a game perfectly and other hardware might hit problems using the same disc, it really is just something you have to be willing to understand. I'm currently struggling because my Duo isn't reading some disc correctly, but other things run them alright, so yeah.

Thankfully in my case, with a few exceptions I actually never paid a lot for disc based titles because I got most of them out of the way a long, long time ago. I did sink some big bucks into a few TG disc, and I think a few odd ones here or there, but really nothing too horrifying cost wise, you only are seeing a lot of those systems explode in recent times, but I thankfully finished my goals there a long time ago. If I were just beginning now, I don't think I'd be willing to sink the money these disc run for, but because I got 95 percent of them pretty cost effective, I have peace.

5 hours ago, MrWunderful said:

Not sure how I missed this, but working designs is my favorite “set” across systems. 

They definitely knew how to tickle the collector bone as it were, they put a lot of effort into making their packaging both fancy while not over bloated in most instances, it's a specific balance for me because I honestly can't stand limited editions that grossly are out of proportion to the normal retail releases, the Switch is a particular nightmare here as it probably has 100 box size variants, there is simply no really elegant way to handle that, which is why I just stick to the base retail versions for them lol.

8 hours ago, LeatherRebel5150 said:

How do/would you handle a situation where you found out it wasn’t working or was a fake game? Seems like you would be out of some money with that method 

I have a pretty good eye for spotting fakes since I have been collecting 14 years or so, however it's a mixture. Many of the things I bought were bought during their relevance in an actual retail store, for other things, if the exterior cart/box/manual are clearly real, then the chances of the inner cart being fake are slim when it comes to NES/SNES/etc games, but anything worth any reasonable amount of money I validate the best I can by opening the carts and testing them. There is an odd blend when it comes to counterfeits because 'common games' were often faked in their actual era in various countries, with some of them being pretty convincing, where as the more expensive games by todays standard were usually not faked back then, but faked using modern methods which are quite easy to identify. Recently, I had a legitimate Flintstones GB cart sent to me in what I believe was a Taiwanese reproduction box and manual, the seller was in disbelief but I was able to use group validation to confirm what I believed to be true, unfortunately for him many of his titles suffered this fate due to whatever region he came from. 

What I can say is that I know every Game Boy game I own for example, has an authentic box, cart shell, and manual, and every somewhat expensive game had the inner cart checked for any obvious signs of being fake. Unfortunately, not all systems have databases to cross compare cartridges, so you just have to do your best to know how to spot the signs.

I can't assure that no single item in my collection is fake, but buying CIB is definitely an automatic deterrent to counterfeit items, I have spotted maybe 30 or so fake items over the course of collecting, and have been going through methods to validate more and more by console and so far, nothing has slipped by.

I don't really fit into the criteria here, but I clean stuff when I want to actually use it, and I test stuff that I consider semi+ valuable just to make sure, but I collect so much that it would be too time consuming to do it all, so I guess I just hope most of my stuff is working ok

Yeah this happens anytime you add anything of real substance using the import tool, I had routine contact with the site owner while trying to populate around 8000 games, so he would kindly update the ticker as it were, but it was a process. I guess it's just not able to handle real bulk for some reason.

Eventually I'll be adding PS4/Switch/Xbox One so that'll be brutal too.

I fully disagree, though Mario 3 is fantastic too. Super Mario World innovated in a whole lot of ways that are still not rivaled to this day. The entire world being interconnected, the way it designates which areas have secrets and which do not makes it so you're more prone to try and find the secrets rather than look them up, the amount of flexibility in the world design and alternate methods to approach it, the fact you can bring Yoshi from level to level and find ones with different powers, etc. Mario World basically made the entire game feel like one big single adventure filled with secrets and options, while focusing on the fundamentals that make the series great. Mario 3 is the game that cemented the series as a true juggernaut, but World is still right there with it trading blows really. Both are legends and deserve their praise though.

1 hour ago, phart010 said:

There’s a big difference between personal property that is covered under the blanket of home insurance and game collections.
 

What is the value of personal property? Maybe a few personal computers, two tv’s, clothes, purses, furniture, dishes, kitchen appliances, tools, you could probably replace it all for most people with less than $25k. Property insurance often doesn’t cover valuable stuff like jewelry. Even then, the chances that all this stuff all gets stolen at the same time is slim due to bulk sizing of items. 

As you mentioned, game collections can have great value and insurance companies may not recognize the value. This makes sense, because they should only be replacing the value that you lost not the opportunity value. If you paid $20 for a $100 game, and it’s stolen, you are only down the $20 you paid. Value has to be documented and the most typical way to do this is with a purchase invoice. 

Game collections can be tremendously valuable. Way more valuable than the standard personal property.  If you are interested in buying insurance specifically for a game collection it probably is tremendously valuable. When the value is so high, yet it is an item that is so portable, it’s a big risk for insurance companies.
 

Fine art can be insured, but each piece is unique. And you’ll only get its value when selling the unique piece on the market, which immediately gains attention of the public. Expensive video games are not unique. There are so many games worth $1000+ nowadays, yet if you were a thief you’d have no problem reselling them for their actual value since there are dozens of identical items for sale at any given time
 

Most of us can easily prove that we paid 1000, or 10000 dollars for something if we did however, the point is even if you can, your basic normal home owners insurance will just say 'well, it depreciated because it's an electronic, so here is a small sum of money' and you're SOL.

I literally never cared, I avoid Players Choice and the rest is game

2 minutes ago, LeatherRebel5150 said:

Ive pointed this out in threads on NA and reddit before, more specifically an insurance company would probably say well its a game, the average game costs $2.00, maybe you might get lucky and they say “oh it’s a NES game, the cost of an average NES game is $30, heres tour check.” Then people would argue that no “their agent” or whatever said it’s covered, but these people could never provide any wording or evidence that explicitly states, “If I lose X game, I WILL receive X value from a claim.” Its always some vague “personal property” value or something. 

All that sounds like to me is a good way for a company to not dish the money out with clever wording. Remember they’re in the business of making money they don’t care that your Stadium Events melted. 

Your absolute best bet @goldenpp72is to find an agent and explicitly lay out what you want. For example “I want the specific value of the lost property in the case of fire, flood, tornado, natural or manmade” etc “ what can you do for me.” and see if they can come up with something for you and read it carefully possibly with attorney proof read as well before signing, if the agent can even put something forward

Right now I'm looking into American Collectors Insurance because they (supposedly) have a means of actually having an 'agreed upon value' of each item upon insuring you, but I need more detail in terms of things like damage, partial loss, etc, as not every claim is going to be 'it evaporated in a fire', etc. They do seem promising on the outside at least, but then many agencies do.

36 minutes ago, a3quit4s said:

I straight up told them my collection is worth over $100k and they said no problem it’s covered under the “personal property” coverage that I have up to $500k on. Still have never filed a claim though so who knows what kind of hoops I’d have to jump through if say my basement flooded or something. 

I would definitely examine the paperwork myself in this instance, as I've had a total of 4 different normal insurance companies tell me it will be covered, only to find wording that would determine it is not going to be covered. It's usually more clear in circumstances of things like jewelry because that's a typical thing to insure, but despite games being collectable for arguably over a decade, they just aren't in the same space. No normal person understands that I can't replace Magical Chase for 10 dollars and that 2.50 doesn't help me get there, I have heard some companies of the normal nature offer separate riders for such things, but I think the onus is on us to make sure what we mean is actually what they intend to do in the event of some incident.

26 minutes ago, a3quit4s said:

Both MD and NY homeowners insurance have told me it’s covered under my general policy but I’ve never filed a claim before so who knows. I’ve got all my stuff in Excel and we’ll documented in pictures but who knows what they would say if push came to shove. 

If it's like mine, they thought they covered it too, until I explained to them the cost of some items. They estimated 2.50 per game to replace because of how they value games, so it's scary to think about. 

48 minutes ago, MrWunderful said:

Did you reach out to your homeowners insurance? Usually they can add a generic rider for you.

I did, essentially my insurance will not cover actual value of items such as these, they were pretty clear they will never send me 5000 dollars to replace Hagane on SNES but rather maybe a few dollars because of how they classify it. I appreciate the honesty, but it also leaves me in a pinch. I'd estimate my collection is worth more than my house, as such I'd feel better knowing someone reputable is covering it in case something did happen, but like the above poster said all I find are people saying they love their agent lol. 

This isn't entirely a new topic, but as I draw near the end of my collecting journey my desire to have it insured for peace of mind increases. Unfortunately I'm only ever suggested a couple options, but no one seems to have any evidence of actually having success with the process. My concern of course is that in paying thousands a year to insure a collection that the peace of mind is actually valid and not negated via scummy practices. I can't really get any read on this and it's amazing to me that with all the people with big collections of games, comic books, etc, that there isn't a more obvious way to deal with this. Anyone have any opinions or thoughts?

Ideally we never have to use any kind of insurance, but imagine how bad you'd feel to lose it only to not be backed up by a company you sunk thousands into

I did end up getting it but that would have been nice, ouch!

Did a pretty big update here, I removed many things I've found but added about 20 more titles as well, so maybe you have something I'd need? Hit me up if so! Happy Holidays all!

20 minutes ago, Gloves said:

I'm always jealous/inspired by your game room. Love it.

It's gone a bit out of control tbh, I'm retaining 0 percent interest debt in a hope to just finish it since It's become pretty tiring to collect these days, but I like working on it to make it all feel worth it, but I'd like to rest too lol.