More Company Shenanigans

[fcgamer | 4,754]

Konami was a huge one guilty of this, well it looks like Banpresto can join the club.

Was cleaning out in the game room tonight, one of my bootleg carts fell off the stack as I was sorting / moving them, and it cracked open.

The game is SD Battle Oozumou: Heisei Hero Bansho. Well I went to snap the cart closed, but thought I'd first snap some pics, after what I saw.

Those licensed companies were definitely doing shady shit back in the day, perhaps that's why Nintendo decided to take complete control of manufacturing in the west?

 

 

[Gloves | 11,843]

I don't get it.

[fcgamer | 4,754]

9 minutes ago, Gloves said:

I don't get it.

That's a legit famicom PCB inside a bootleg shell, no it was not swapped out.

Dozens of bootlegs of Konami games also had the same situation, bootleg shell, legit PCBs. Some other companies like the guys that did Ikari warriors, iirc, had the same situation.

[Hammerfestus | 3,891]

Ok but what’s with the wall anchors hot glued in there?  Am I missing something?

[Gloves | 11,843]

1 minute ago, fcgamer said:

That's a legit famicom PCB inside a bootleg shell, no it was not swapped out.

Dozens of bootlegs of Konami games also had the same situation, bootleg shell, legit PCBs. Some other companies like the guys that did Ikari warriors, iirc, had the same situation.

/r/LeopardsAteMyFace/

[fcgamer | 4,754]

1 minute ago, Hammerfestus said:

Ok but what’s with the wall anchors hot glued in there?  Am I missing something?

I think that was their quick fix for getting the PCB to seat properly in that particular shell.

[fcgamer | 4,754]

1 minute ago, Gloves said:

/r/LeopardsAteMyFace/

Really don't get that at all...

You might not find it interesting that licensed Japanese companies were also involved in making bootleg carts, on the side, but I'm sure others do.

[RegularGuyGamer | 2,018]

Isn't it likely that the company bought overstock and repackaged the PBCs?

[phart010 | 1,708]

I don’t get how the sales model worked for Famicom.

In the US, Nintendo did all the manufacturing. The publishers would give Nintendo the game code and label/box/manual design. Nintendo would quote a price for the manufacturing order to the publisher and the publisher would buy-resell the product. The Nintendo licensing fees are baked into the cost of the manufacturing order.

In Japan for Famicom, it looks like a circus. It appears Nintendo may or may not have supplied the pcb’s depending on the publisher. There are many mask roms that have been supplied by the publisher directly and with the publishers logo on it. There’s many different kinds of shells, obviously most all of the nonstandard shell were not from Nintendo.
 

Since a Japanese publisher could theoretically create the entire game- shell, pcb’s, chips, and packaging on their own, how would Nintendo collect any royalties for licensing it? 

Edited July 10, 2021 by phart010

[Tanooki | 4,953]

In Japan Nintendo didn't do the manufacturing of everyone's games and packing materials that third parties in the US would submit to the US office.

That's why each company tended to have their own stickers, own cart colors, varied their cart colors, did volume numbers on cart stickers(namco, hudson, taito, etc.)  Some went as far as making unique shell shapes and sizes, and yet further putting a little LED light in there as well to glow back at you.  Right down to the trays inside, they weren't even uniformly all the same type/molding either, or inserts.  It was the wild west as far as stuff goes, no uniformity at all like you'd find in the later eras from any manufacturer.

Even the chinese off market stuff like my Timetop made Gameking carts were more uniform in their box packaging, inserts, and plastic trays than the famicom ever would hope to be.

 

As far as licensing goes, Japanese honor code?  They clearly could make their own boards, get their own supply of chips, plastics, stickers and the rest.  There was none of that childish 10NES crap we had to put up with, or the limits of 6/yr per publisher nonsense either.

Edited July 10, 2021 by Tanooki

[fcgamer | 4,754]

3 hours ago, RegularGuyGamer said:

Isn't it likely that the company bought overstock and repackaged the PBCs?

Could be, though for some games (such as Famicom Contra), two different PCB designs existed, and both have been found inside bootleg shells. This suggests to me that it wasn't just getting rid of overstock.

[LeatherRebel5150 | 1,056]

45 minutes ago, fcgamer said:

Could be, though for some games (such as Famicom Contra), two different PCB designs existed, and both have been found inside bootleg shells. This suggests to me that it wasn't just getting rid of overstock.

Im curious to know what you think the end game/benefit was to them doing this? They were already selling the games legit so what good would it do them to make the bootlegs too? Im just not seeing the business side of this making much sense

[fcgamer | 4,754]

1 hour ago, LeatherRebel5150 said:

Im curious to know what you think the end game/benefit was to them doing this? They were already selling the games legit so what good would it do them to make the bootlegs too? Im just not seeing the business side of this making much sense

It likely was to enter and establish their brand in another market. At that time, although there was an official Famicom released in Taiwan (as well as in Hong Kong), it was something that only the top crust of society could afford. As soon as local companies started making clones (and bootleg games), Nintendo pretty much got out of that market. Thailand is another example, some official games were imported there, but there just wasn't a market, as people couldn't afford them.

Let's say for example, an original Contra cost $50 back in the day, and a bootleg Contra made 100% by a bootleg company cost $20. Konami could sell their PCBs to a local Taiwan company to produce a better "bootleg", i.e real PCB but fake shell, and charge $30 or $35 for it. Konami would still be earning *some* money off of those carts, compared to the $20 jobbies they had no involvement in, AND they'd also be establishing their name into the memory of gamers. 

At this time, often the bootleg games also had their credits / copyright information hacked out or edited.

We need to remember that even if gamers want / prefer to buy real products, if their parents / they can't afford it, then they'll either buy fakes or do without, neither of which helps established companies in these markets.

As it stands today, you almost never see fake games in Taiwan anymore, everything is licensed and real, and gamers are happily buying Castlevanias and Contras and whatever else, as they're very familiar with those series thanks to having access to these fakes as kids.

It makes a lot if sense from a business perspective, and I'm not alone in thinking so, as I mentioned earlier Microsoft did something similar, iirc:

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/blog/2007/jul/18/winningthrough

[phart010 | 1,708]

1 hour ago, LeatherRebel5150 said:

Im curious to know what you think the end game/benefit was to them doing this? They were already selling the games legit so what good would it do them to make the bootlegs too? Im just not seeing the business side of this making much sense

My guess is the legit Famicom stuff was made by the publisher for the Japan market only. 
 

Outside of Japan, Hong Kong, Taiwan, Korea and Singapore, Southeast Asia was pretty poor. No way people living in these countries could afford to buy Famicom games at the Japan market price.
 

So the publishers either sold a bunch of pcb and chip parts to companies in other countries for cheap and let them figure out the rest. Or the chip/pcb suppliers for Japan publishers could have been located in other countries and when the suppliers realized what it was that they were manufacturing, they started making unauthorized pcb/chip sales to other companies besides the publishers they were intended for.

Question is, how does Nintendo make a cut of the software sales? We’re they only making money on console hardware in Japan?

Edited July 11, 2021 by phart010

[fcgamer | 4,754]

We do know that this wasn't the only time legit Japanese companies were dealing with Taiwanense companies.

Time Diver Eon Man was slated for a USA release, for example, but it never got released, despite being finished. It was a Taito game IIRC. But the game was indeed officially released,  in Taiwan, by a local company. They also released a rebranded version of Taito's Insector X, Queen Bee V.

Then there was Hudson Soft, which had its Taiwanense branch make a hack of their original Adventure Island game, as well as their own Famiclone.

Ironically enough, the few images of that Hudson Soft Famiclone I saw also had bootleg carts with the "Hi" label, quite similar to the one posted earlier in this thread.

The cases are endless.

[fcgamer | 4,754]

Here's more examples. I'm sure I posted these earlier, sometime along the way, but if I didn't.

Yeah that one Contra is missing a piece out of it, please forgive me

I once asked the largest collector on the island his thoughts on the matter, and he believed that these were copies of the games that bootleg companies bought legitimately to reverse engineer the games, then they just re-shelled them and sold them off.

I don't believe his theory at all though, there's too many of these out there, then there's the two different Contra boards, and also these have even been found in places like Russia. Furthermore, some games (such as the Golgo game) I have Never found a bootleg of, with a true bootleg PCB. So why would a company bother to reverse engineer that game, then not even add it to their list of wares?

 

 

[fcgamer | 4,754]

Finally, I'll post these in here for fun. Different situation than the carts above, but still worth mentioning.

Both carts were originally sold in Korea.

I'm not going to risk opening these up, so you just need to take this on faith, but both of these contain official Nintendo chips, possibly official PCBs too, I don't remember, as we had some huge discussions on these two carts years ago.

[RegularGuyGamer | 2,018]

16 hours ago, fcgamer said:

once asked the largest collector on the island his thoughts on the matter, and he believed that these were copies of the games that bootleg companies bought legitimately to reverse engineer the games, then they just re-shelled them and sold them off.

I don't believe his theory at all though, there's too many of these out there, then there's the two different Contra boards, and also these have even been found in places like Russia

Do you think that there was a line in these factories that produced bootleg labels and off brand carts? And then glued wall anchors in there like in the factory? I feel that would be a further stretch than what the other collector suggested. 

[fcgamer | 4,754]

9 hours ago, RegularGuyGamer said:

Do you think that there was a line in these factories that produced bootleg labels and off brand carts? And then glued wall anchors in there like in the factory? I feel that would be a further stretch than what the other collector suggested. 

You shouldn't get hung up on the wall anchors, this was a common thing in the bootleg world, stick a dowel rod or paper or something to stabalize the PCB so that it seats properly, if one of the tabs broke or whatever. 

As for the other bit, not really sure I understand your point. Of course Taiwanense factories were producing bootleg shells and labels, tons of them. Some even produced PCBs, bootleg PCBs but stuff like the Game Genie PCBs were also manufactured here...

Maybe these companies actually handled PCBs manufacturing for Konami and others, then just decided to print more, unauthorised, but it seems much more likely that Konami and the others had a hand in it themselves too.

[TDIRunner | 2,779]

If it were me, I would use the wall anchors to attach the game cart to the wall and enjoy it that way.  Why waste space on  a shelf when the game comes with all the necessary hardware to hang it on the wall?  

[fcgamer | 4,754]

39 minutes ago, TDIRunner said:

If it were me, I would use the wall anchors to attach the game cart to the wall and enjoy it that way.  Why waste space on  a shelf when the game comes with all the necessary hardware to hang it on the wall?  

Instead of buying games to shelve them, buy games to wall them.

[TDIRunner | 2,779]

Just now, fcgamer said:

Instead of buying games to shelve them, buy games to wall them.

Now you're talking.  

[Tanooki | 4,953]

Well since we're talking about fixing problem with cheap chinese stuff with wall anchors and electrical cap type stuff, it reminded me of the old Supaboy v1/v2.  The way the d-pad was made on that, due to the deep set PCB contacts was a non-restrictive/blocked d-pad where you could hit all directions and cause most games to freak out and malfunction in motion.  I guess I went taiwanese bootleg factory smart on it, got a nice electrical cap, started cutting the open end to a height, then sanded the tip keeping it rounded down to the precise height needed to create the block a legit Nintendo d-pad underside had, and wham...played perfectly.   Anyone remember that from NA?

[LeatherRebel5150 | 1,056]

13 hours ago, Tanooki said:

Well since we're talking about fixing problem with cheap chinese stuff with wall anchors and electrical cap type stuff, it reminded me of the old Supaboy v1/v2.  The way the d-pad was made on that, due to the deep set PCB contacts was a non-restrictive/blocked d-pad where you could hit all directions and cause most games to freak out and malfunction in motion.  I guess I went taiwanese bootleg factory smart on it, got a nice electrical cap, started cutting the open end to a height, then sanded the tip keeping it rounded down to the precise height needed to create the block a legit Nintendo d-pad underside had, and wham...played perfectly.   Anyone remember that from NA?

I definitely remember that. Didnt you also use the paper punchout hole reinforcement ms around the contacts under the dpad too? Or was that something/someone else?

[Tanooki | 4,953]

2 hours ago, LeatherRebel5150 said:

I definitely remember that. Didnt you also use the paper punchout hole reinforcement ms around the contacts under the dpad too? Or was that something/someone else?

I don't remember that.  If I had the pictures still I'd pop them up, but the electrical cap I had on hand conveniently tightly fit between the 4 badly made pillars under each point of the d-pad underside.  It was just a matter of measuring, cutting, smoothing to get the rib nub there to let it rock and not hit all 4 points anymore.  When I eventually did dump it knowing a better version was coming someone jumped on it fast because of the fix so I know it was appreciated.