SNES library vs. GBA library

[Makar | 1,951]

4 hours ago, Reed Rothchild said:

Which one has Hades and Dead Cells and Breath of the Wild and Bayonetta 2 and Final Fantasy VII and Okami and Into the Breach and Super Mario Galaxy and Astral Chain and Dark Souls? 

Lol if any console's library is going to overthrow the DS, it'll be the switch. There are a lot of great switch titles, and so many I know I don't know about. So yea maybe it has already overthrown every system.

[phart010 | 1,710]

23 hours ago, Renmauzo said:

Hey how bout keeping it family friendly! MODS!!

[Tanooki | 4,957]

On 10/19/2020 at 6:02 AM, cartman said:

Yeah i mean i read there are 1510 games released for GBA so i could imagine someone would say there's a ton of good games. About sequels and such, i think they count. They are still new games, if they're fun they're fun and valid just as much as a game from a totally different series, variation is not disqualifier. There are 3 Castlevania games on there and i had fun with all so why would i have wanted them to just release 1? Ninja Five-O i don't know much about but i've heard good things.

No variation isn't a disqualifier, but I would say it's an inhibitor.  If you are limited to as Sumez wanted a top100 by me, I would weight sequels hard against their counterparts because if I'm being limited to a cap I don't want some as good if not better experiences to be shoved down or off a list entirely because of mentally tickling fanboy tendencies that would want to cluster every mario, zelda, megaman, castlevania, etc in groups as suddenly your top 100 is a top 60.  At that rate those lesser known or at least played but known by now stuff like Car Battler Joe, which I would top100, likely wouldn't make the list.  It's a game of balance.   And Ninja Five-o is average, it's konamis play on Ninja Gaiden in a time people were begging for a return of those and got the 3D junk (DS included) instead, it was that decades 'The Messenger' yet nowhere near as good.

[Sumez | 3,005]

You're nuts.  

Ninja Five-O is miles better than The Messenger, and neither of them bear much of a resemblance to Ninja Gaiden, let alone eachother, unless "you play as a character that looks like a ninja" is your sole qualifier.  

[cartman | 195]

2 hours ago, Tanooki said:

No variation isn't a disqualifier, but I would say it's an inhibitor.  If you are limited to as Sumez wanted a top100 by me, I would weight sequels hard against their counterparts because if I'm being limited to a cap I don't want some as good if not better experiences to be shoved down or off a list entirely because of mentally tickling fanboy tendencies that would want to cluster every mario, zelda, megaman, castlevania, etc in groups as suddenly your top 100 is a top 60.  At that rate those lesser known or at least played but known by now stuff like Car Battler Joe, which I would top100, likely wouldn't make the list.  It's a game of balance.   And Ninja Five-o is average, it's konamis play on Ninja Gaiden in a time people were begging for a return of those and got the 3D junk (DS included) instead, it was that decades 'The Messenger' yet nowhere near as good.

If the games are great then that's all that i think matters, with or without variation. A list is just this artificial thing anyway ultimately it's the fun that matters.

But i can understand that some ppl feel that a series recycling the same engine is stagnation there is an argument for that too. Those Metroidvanias wouldn't have existed without a departure of the old format taking place. But generally i don't think it's a minus no.

[Reed Rothchild | 9,617]

2 hours ago, Sumez said:

You're nuts.  

Ninja Five-O is miles better than The Messenger, and neither of them bear much of a resemblance to Ninja Gaiden, let alone eachother, unless "you play as a character that looks like a ninja" is your sole qualifier.  

Im gonna start calling you Mr. Strong Take  

[Reed Rothchild | 9,617]

The Castlevania example is a good one. 

Is Harmony of Dissonance the weakest entry on GBA? Easily.

Is it still a top 50 game in the library?  I don't know, I haven't played the whole library.  But I'd bet money it is.

[Grondorr | 49]

On 10/22/2020 at 7:49 AM, Tanooki said:

No variation isn't a disqualifier, but I would say it's an inhibitor.  If you are limited to as Sumez wanted a top100 by me, I would weight sequels hard against their counterparts because if I'm being limited to a cap I don't want some as good if not better experiences to be shoved down or off a list entirely because of mentally tickling fanboy tendencies that would want to cluster every mario, zelda, megaman, castlevania, etc in groups as suddenly your top 100 is a top 60.  At that rate those lesser known or at least played but known by now stuff like Car Battler Joe, which I would top100, likely wouldn't make the list.  It's a game of balance.   And Ninja Five-o is average, it's konamis play on Ninja Gaiden in a time people were begging for a return of those and got the 3D junk (DS included) instead, it was that decades 'The Messenger' yet nowhere near as good.

1) I am not a fan of lists that will only pick one game from a series. e.g. - I LOVE Metroid Fusion, and consider it my favorite Metroid (I never really got into the 3D metroids), even though nearly every list would rank Zero Mission higher. In your example one of my favorite games on any platform wouldn't even make the top 100 games list. I mean really, if you owned Aria of Sorrow, would you not want to buy Circle of Moon? Would you not want to own BOTH Zero Mission and Fusion? Of course you would!
2) Ninja 5-O is not average. You may not like the genre, but for an arcade action Ninja platformer it's pretty great, and should have sold a ton more copies. (As I understand, it just didn't sell that well, as it was weird and unknown.)
3) If you want to call out lesser know games, maybe make a top 50 hidden gems list or something like that.
4) Thinking about it further. I want to work (with others) to rate all the GBA games that are available in English, and maybe a few JP exclusives that can be played by English speakers. Is anyone working on this? Thinking a curated Google Doc maybe?

[Tanooki | 4,957]

26 minutes ago, Grondorr said:

1) I am not a fan of lists that will only pick one game from a series. e.g. - I LOVE Metroid Fusion, and consider it my favorite Metroid (I never really got into the 3D metroids), even though nearly every list would rank Zero Mission higher. In your example one of my favorite games on any platform wouldn't even make the top 100 games list. I mean really, if you owned Aria of Sorrow, would you not want to buy Circle of Moon? Would you not want to own BOTH Zero Mission and Fusion? Of course you would!
2) Ninja 5-O is not average. You may not like the genre, but for an arcade action Ninja platformer it's pretty great, and should have sold a ton more copies. (As I understand, it just didn't sell that well, as it was weird and unknown.)
3) If you want to call out lesser know games, maybe make a top 50 hidden gems list or something like that.
4) Thinking about it further. I want to work (with others) to rate all the GBA games that are available in English, and maybe a few JP exclusives that can be played by English speakers. Is anyone working on this? Thinking a curated Google Doc maybe?

Typically I'm not either, but I do find a nice compromise is an after thought list of honorable mentions, so that a big line of sequels can't water down other valid choices for more variety. And I actually do own both Metroid games, but I'd list Zero Mission.  It's not that Fusion is exactly bad, and I didn't even mind the story elements, but it was too linear for its own good and greatly more obnoxious was the huge amount of damage you took for hits in that game which skewed away from what was normal in every previous entry so I'd dock it for that.

Ninja Five-O I've owned 3x over the years, first being when it was new.  I do like the genre, I just don't like how that game was designed very much.  If I were to include that in a top list, I couldn't in good conscience put it in a top100, 200 maybe, but it's just not that excellent, but it's not bad either, and definitely not licensed trash.  Konami never pushed the game very hard and it got a smaller run than more of their stuff tends to probably not being confident in it.  I never saw it at retail exactly easily like ever, mine came out of a package at a Sams Club as I had in laws with a membership so I grabbed it the one time I went in there.

Hidden Gems list I'd be down with, 10 years ago, but the very concept has been ruined by youtube scum and other trolls looking to gin up both their so called gamer card, but also to try and jam up the price so they can have something more valuable.  It's hard to hidden gem much of anything anymore.

And I don't know if anyone has made up such a list.  Adding Japanese games and also Euro/Aus (PAL) centric stuff I'd call a must as well as long as the rule is that it's already in english, or greatly to the point nothing is lost due to it not being there.  I can think of some games outside the US market I'd throw onto a buy list.

[Sumez | 3,005]

I'm anxiously awaiting your list of 100 GBA games that are all better than Ninja Five-O  
Would be fair to dedicate a new thread to it, or even a blog post.

Edited October 26, 2020 by Sumez

[Reed Rothchild | 9,617]

7 hours ago, Sumez said:

I'm anxiously awaiting your list of 100 GBA games that are all better than Ninja Five-O  
Would be fair to dedicate a new thread to it, or even a blog post.

I'd subscribe

[Tanooki | 4,957]

Seriously? I thought that was niceties.  You want me to attempt it?  I suppose I could depending how much detail is really needed.  I wasn't looking to do a project like that nice best to worst SNES countdown going on for years now.

[Reed Rothchild | 9,617]

1 hour ago, Tanooki said:

Seriously? I thought that was niceties.  You want me to attempt it?  I suppose I could depending how much detail is really needed.  I wasn't looking to do a project like that nice best to worst SNES countdown going on for years now.

Years?  Try decade(s)...

[Gaia Gensouki | 1,079]

1 hour ago, Tanooki said:

Seriously? I thought that was niceties.  You want me to attempt it? 

If you have such extensive knowledge of the GBA library, then that would be pretty cool. Now we just need someone else to tackle the NES library and maybe the N64 or Game Boy library while we're at it. Hm, there are also many Sega console left for the taking. Just saying...

[Sumez | 3,005]

4 hours ago, Tanooki said:

Seriously? I thought that was niceties.  You want me to attempt it?

I'm always interested in learning what other people like. Even if I don't necessarily agree with the ratings, it's always nice to know where other people see qualities that you don't yourself.
And like I said, the GBA is a library I have a very hard time finding any real quality in outside of the few obvious top listers (which I guess is still a good ~50 games to be fair), so it would at least help me knowing what to look out for.

[Tanooki | 4,957]

I'm working on it.  I've gone over the list and taken everything people here also have said into consideration about sequels and ports or remastered ports.  I've just chucked it all in there, no reason to exclude something because it maybe on a PC or SNES, and sequels shouldn't diminish others either.  Some I've left in, and some I've just cut out because I didn't much care for one (say like Mega Man Zero has god awful broken punishing saving, but #2 was about as challenging, just not cheapo like that, just more refined.)  Also would probably want to put considering it's just a package of mini games on carts or in the case of emulation, honorable mention for the entire line of GBA Classic NES Series/Famicom Mini and bit Generations.

This isn't done, and mostly since it's US centered and the game list is large, I broken it down by year.  Currently has 106 US games and 14 for JP/EU region stuff.  I know I've excluded a good many Japanese games, but if you can't read them and it impacts the story or worse gameplay on the whole they're cut out.  That means no Dragon Quest Monsters 3, no Mother 1+2, no Metalgun Slinger either.

I'll come back and edit this, want this down to a list of 100 so somethings are going to get cut but so far I was just adding and removing a bit as I went along and got over my cap.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1CP5P3EO8zp4iTZaPFpPD0NMOE4_mWoevYfiDOxsbSpQ/edit?usp=sharing

[DefaultGen | 5,490]

On 10/13/2020 at 10:00 PM, Tanooki said:

The 90s just had less variety in genres or blending of them, they played to what the smaller market then wanted which was that, just like the FPS got asinine out of control within less than a decade after.  GBA though, it has those platformers, but it also has a solid thick library of other genres in racing, flight, rpg, jrpg, adventure, diablo types, SOTN style games, and more.

I might change my vote to GBA overall. I was just thinking about genres. Some genres barely existed when SNES was a thing or weren't possible on SNES.

What's your favorite SNES rhythm game? GBA might only really have one banger in Rhythm Tengoku, but that's infinity percent more than SNES! SNES doesn't really have extreme sports that compete with Tony Hawk and all on GBA. I guess SNES Wolf3D and a framey port of Doom, but GBA has a whole handful of mediocre FPSs! What's SNESs answer to the Warioware games? Nothing I say! I'm also going to say SNES has nothing on Shrek video cartridges, it just can't compete.

[Sumez | 3,005]

I can't tell if you're being sarcastic or genuine XD 

[Tanooki | 4,957]

Well honestly I pretty much hate rhythm games for the most part.  And I can't stand Rhythm Heaven on the whole as I can't ever figure out the queues/timing even in the training on that crap game.  There have been very few I've ever enjoyed.  Guitaroo Man, Theaterhythm FF/Curtain Call, Hatsune Miku (3DS), Elite Beat Agents, sorta I guess if it counts DDR (Mario Mix, etc) and Guitar Hero 3.  Obviously some cross into using accessories like the last two, but you can play it on a controller too.

I can't tell if you're being sarcastic either.  Are you serious or mocking the added genres since like it's unfair to point that out?  If there's something you don't like on that list, say so, and I can explain my thinking on any of them.

Take for instance since you called them out, Wolf-3D and Doom, seeing they're also on SNES.  They're not hard to throw the why out there on those.  Wolf3D because it (music aside) is entirely intact and plays as well as the old PC game did using a gamepad instead of a keyboard.  Doom while a Jag port it runs smooth, looks and plays excellent, is a pretty solid conversion.  But it's also why I also included the sequel and Duke.  Doom II that's more of a technical marvel because it has nothing really removed from the PC, all stages present though one was larger than system memory so it got diced into two.  Duke though isn't DN3D, it's unique, fantastic game engine, really fun to play and lots of stage variety and duke-isms of a PG nature.  As far as sports go, Tony Hawk 2, there were extreme sports games on SNES, even the NES had them too, but THPS2 was a game changer for portable skate games at the time with the isometric mixed with fluid 3D models that allowed the console game to get accurately captured, yet sequels brought nothing of value newer to the table sadly.

I mean if we're going to dump on the time I put into that, I can pull it and not bother whittling it down to 100.

[Makar | 1,951]

@Tanooki are you letting people edit your list? Like I said before, I strongly believe all 6 mega man battle network games should be on this list. They are all different. If you're going to pick just one, the 3rd one is often regarded as the best.

Some other thoughts:

No boktai? That's probably one of the top 5 GBA games there is.  

Also didn't see Pokemon ruby/sapphire/emerald. 

 

Have you looked at:

riviera

yoshi topsy turvy

Breath of fire I and II

yggdra union

Summon night I and II

Pocky and rocky with Becky

 

Are you going to include nes ports? You had Zelda a link to the past from SNES. 

If you need another japanese GBA game, slime mori mori is excellent. It's dragon quest heroes rocket slime that we got on the DS. 

[Reed Rothchild | 9,617]

21 minutes ago, Makar said:

@Tanooki are you letting people edit your list? Like I said before, I strongly believe all 6 mega man battle network games should be on this list.

No boktai? That's probably one of the top 5 GBA games there is.  

But you've never played a Metroid or Castlevania (among other things).  So how would you know?

[Makar | 1,951]

2 minutes ago, Reed Rothchild said:

But you've never played a Metroid or Castlevania (among other things).  So how would you know?

I have played metroid. Not really my cup of tea. I do see why it and castlevania are in the top 100 GBA games. Boktai is definitely a top 100 game for the GBA. Anyone who says otherwise has simply never played it. 

[Reed Rothchild | 9,617]

12 minutes ago, Makar said:

I have played metroid. Not really my cup of tea. I do see why it and castlevania are in the top 100 GBA games. Boktai is definitely a top 100 game for the GBA. Anyone who says otherwise has simply never played it. 

Right, but you just said top 5.

I'm not saying it isn't, just that I also have no idea. 

And I understand you played Metroid.... for NES.  Not Zero Mission or Fusion.  Totally different animals.  May as well be comparing Adventures of Link with Minnish Cap.

[Gaia Gensouki | 1,079]

Here are some really great recommendations and I would like to give special thanks to @Tanooki for compiling and sharing his list. There are a bunch of games that I wouldn't have considered to be good, because of their title. But I will look out for them in the future. I really regret selling my GBA collection back in the day or not expanding upon them earlier. I think nowadays many of them are fairly expensive.

[Makar | 1,951]

7 minutes ago, Reed Rothchild said:

Right, but you just said top 5.

I'm not saying it isn't, just that I also have no idea. 

And I understand you played Metroid.... for NES.  Not Zero Mission or Fusion.  Totally different animals.  May as well be comparing Adventures of Link with Minnish Cap.

Gotcha. Well I do have Metroid fusion now. I should give that a go. 

I stand by that boktai (the first one) is probably a top 5 GBA game. Key word being probably, as I have not played most GBA games, so I can't say for sure. From what I have played, it's definitely top 5 for me. What I can say is I really really enjoyed playing it. Every part of it. If you're going to spend $80ish on a GBA game, this is the one to spend that on.