Question for the community-- How do we find solid, quality products that aren't "cheap China junk"?

[RH | 4,970]

I call it "CCJ", which is short for "cheap China junk".  I have nothing against people from China and, actually, I have nothing against Chinese companies either.  However, we live in a world that due to cheap Eastern labor paired with unfair shipment pricing agreements, over the past decade-plus America has been flooded with sellers from mainland China that has engineered products within such cheap levels of of fault tolerance that a lot of equipment doesn't even work on arrival.  Whether it's USB drives, HDMI cables, toasters, clothing, you name it.  If it's from a company based out of China, there's a good chance that if it's dirt-cheap and it won't last a week.

My frustration with this is that this junk is so prevalent that I often have a very difficult time finding legitimate, quality items that aren't of such a high quality they are basically professional grade and super expensive.  For instance, right now I'd like to get an 8-10 port composite switch since I'm setting up my game room.  You can find this stuff, but it's priced so cheap (some times as little as $20, shipped?!) there is NO WAY that item will be a quality product.  I'd be willing to bet that on arrival, 2-3 inputs would be completely dead.  I don't want that.  However, upon my searching, I am finding some really, really nice switches.  They have all of the bells and whistles and are often sold on premier A/V sites.  These look great, but I don't want to pay $1,500 for an a/v switch. Certainly there has to be some consumer-grade manufacturer that makes a no-frills, similar product that might be in the $150-250 price range.

My current need is in regards to a component a/v switch but the truth is, this is a common question I have that needs to be answered about once every couple months.  I need to buy some form of electronic equipment but I can't find anything in the middle.  Where is this stuff, and how can I find it/buy it?  To be clear, "just google it" doesn't seem to work.  The market is literally so flooded with the trash, all that comes up is just the trash, especially on Amazon and eBay.

Have any of you guys found a good list of sites that sell quality electronics items as consumer prices.  I'm definitely willing to fork out fair money for this stuff, whether it's a switch, and HDMI or USB cable, or whatever, but I just can't find any.  Can you guys help?  Alternatively, I don't mind buying older, well built equipment but I often have no clue of which brands to look for.  You know, maybe 10-20 year old, professional grade stuff that was built like a tank but no pro wants to use any more.  If you guys have tips, I'd appreciate it.  I think the CCJ problem is only getting more and more prevalent and it's absolutely killing SEO for the consumer.  I just can't find quality goods much anymore, unless it's a previously known brand I was aware of, and I have no clue how to solve this problem at large, consistently for any given need.

[Deadeye | 1,596]

Like you pointed out, you need to find reputable people reviewing, testing, and inspecting this stuff.  At the very least, buying products that have those independent electronic testing stickers on them.  Never use power supplies without the independent lab testing. 

RetroRGB has some recommendations on products.  Although most of the focus is on Scart, RGB, and component.

If you are looking for a middle of the road component switch, I went with this one after research, but still waiting on it to arrive (very slow shipping as I order it when Air Mail was not an option temporarily).  It does scart and component.

https://otaku-games.com/misc/rgb/scart-switches/6-port-rgb-scart-rca-component-switch-with-housing.html

Is looks like this model has composite as well: https://otaku-games.com/misc/rgb/scart-switches/6-port-rgb-scart-rca-component-withrgb-to-component-converter-switch-with-housing-518828166.html

Edit: I went down this rabbit hole because I didn't want to spend $240 on this one.  Although the form factor is better and is 8:2 instead of the 6:1 i ordered. 

Edited August 31, 2020 by Deadeye

[phart010 | 1,708]

I just stick with Amazon. Only buy items with 1000+ reviews and 4+ stars. If it’s a niche item then I’m willing to settle for less reviews as long as reading the reviews gives me the warm fuzzies 

[RH | 4,970]

8 minutes ago, phart010 said:

I just stick with Amazon. Only buy items with 1000+ reviews and 4+ stars. If it’s a niche item then I’m willing to settle for less reviews as long as reading the reviews gives me the warm fuzzies 

This use to be my go-to strategy but I think that the manufacturers are warming up to this.  I'm seeing, what appears to me, a lot more 4-star reviews and then the gripes are all super-minor.  "I wish this came in grey, rather than black. :("

I go to the bottom and read the one and two star reviews.  If I consistently see "multiple inputs weren't working on arrival" and stuff like that, I don't trust the reviews.  Neither the 5-stars or the 4-stars anymore.   To be clear, this perspective has legit shifted in the past couple of months.  I think the top-heavy 5-star items have seen enough decrease in sales, that sellers started asking why and are now creating a more "realistic" bell curve of reviews. Gah, I hate this predatorial seller crap.

[Magus | 169]

The Monoprice Component switch i use works great and didn't cost much. BUT it is discontinued and i had to get it off ebay. I sent you a PM. 

The Gcomp is expensive, but it is a really great switch. If you frequent certain FB group, you can find people selling them used for less.

Unfortunately i know your pain in trying to find good products. Amazon is essentially useless IMO for most products in general. A lot of reviews are fake IME. And you will see the same exact products from 25 different made up companies because they are just generic crap products. Not every category is like this, but for electronics and gear it is pretty awful. 

The Otaku switch above is another solid option. It's on the cheaper side with a no frills approach and manual push buttons. But performance wise should be what you are looking for. 

Edited August 31, 2020 by Magus

[RH | 4,970]

Thanks guys for your suggestions and help.  I'm not really trying to make this about finding a good switch (though I certainly don't mind the recommendations posted here.)  This is a bigger problem and I was curious if you guys knew of good lists covering multiple electronics or found a working solution that solves this issue.

Regarding the switch.  (Thanks @Magus, I may check this out and get it) but what I'd really like is something with 8-10 inputs and blue-sky wish have 2x outputs-- at least one component and one composite.  I have 4 CRT TVs from 70s, 80s, 90s and early 00s and I'd like to output to all of them, and just select a TV du jour, depending on the game.

I might not get a perfect setup, but whatever I use, I want it to be good quality.  I might be able to make the Monoprice switch work, but I'd need a couple or I need to find one with more inputs.

[TDIRunner | 2,774]

Have you considered looking into used matrix switchers?  Yes, they might be older and used, but since these were commercial grade equipment, they usually still hold up very well.  I've been using mine for several years now with no issues.  My model has 16 inputs (composite, s-video or component) and 8 outputs.  You also have the ability to run one multiple inputs and outputs at the same time.  For example, I can have my SNES playing on my tube TV and my PS2 playing on my HD TV at the same time all running through one switch.  

If there are any downsides, they can be quite big depending on the number of inputs, and you will need to get adapters since the video connectors are BNC and the audio connectors are the Pheonix style connectors.  For me, it was worth the time to put it all together.

 

 

Edited August 31, 2020 by TDIRunner

[RH | 4,970]

1 minute ago, TDIRunner said:

Have you considered looking into used matrix switchers?  Yes, they might be older and used, but since these were commercial grade equipment, they usually still hold up very well.  I've been using mine for several years now with no issues.  My model has 16 inputs (composite, s-video or component) and 8 outputs.  You also have the ability to run one multiple inputs and outputs at the same time.  For example, I can have my SNES playing on my tube TV and my PS2 playing on my HD TV at the same time all running through one switch.  

If there are any downsides, they can be quite big depending on the number of inputs, and you will need to get adapters since the video connectors are BNC and the audio connectors are the Pheonix style connectors.  For me, it was worth the time to put it all together.

 

 

 

Yeeeees!  I might have to research this further.  Old school pro-grade is fine in my book.  I just have/had no clue what brands to look for.  Honestly, I didn't even know of the phrase "matrix switcher" though it makes sense.

What might a unit like that go for, shipped in the US?

[Magus | 169]

8 minutes ago, RH said:

Thanks guys for your suggestions and help.  I'm not really trying to make this about finding a good switch (though I certainly don't mind the recommendations posted here.)  This is a bigger problem and I was curious if you guys knew of good lists covering multiple electronics or found a working solution that solves this issue.

Regarding the switch.  (Thanks @Magus, I may check this out and get it) but what I'd really like is something with 8-10 inputs and blue-sky wish have 2x outputs-- at least one component and one composite.  I have 4 CRT TVs from 70s, 80s, 90s and early 00s and I'd like to output to all of them, and just select a TV du jour, depending on the game.

I might not get a perfect setup, but whatever I use, I want it to be good quality.  I might be able to make the Monoprice switch work, but I'd need a couple or I need to find one with more inputs.

In your case then where you have high expectations and high demands, i would definitely spend the money and get the Gcomp for $200. 8 inputs and 2 outputs just like you are looking for, and top notch quality. Also supports both component and composite. Unfortunately sometimes you have to just spend the money because of the lack of options and competition. 

I personally would do that before i tracked down 2 monoprice switches, or tried to use 2 of the otaku switches. 

@TDIRunner has a great recommendation as well. Lots of people in the PVM realm use these crosspoints for their switch needs and love them. You can get them at a reasonable price as well on ebay. They are just pretty large and you have to grab some cheap RCA adapters and i believe phoenix adapters for the audio. 

Edited August 31, 2020 by Magus

[Magus | 169]

1 minute ago, RH said:

Thanks guys for your suggestions and help.  I'm not really trying to make this about finding a good switch (though I certainly don't mind the recommendations posted here.)  This is a bigger problem and I was curious if you guys knew of good lists covering multiple electronics or found a working solution that solves this issue.

Regarding the switch.  (Thanks @Magus, I may check this out and get it) but what I'd really like is something with 8-10 inputs and blue-sky wish have 2x outputs-- at least one component and one composite.  I have 4 CRT TVs from 70s, 80s, 90s and early 00s and I'd like to output to all of them, and just select a TV du jour, depending on the game.

I might not get a perfect setup, but whatever I use, I want it to be good quality.  I might be able to make the Monoprice switch work, but I'd need a couple or I need to find one with more inputs.

In your case then where you have high expectations and high demands, i would definitely spend the money and get the Gcomp for $200. 8 inputs and 2 outputs just like you are looking for, and top notch quality. Also supports both component and composite. Unfortunately sometimes you have to just spend the money because of the lack of options and competition. 

I personally would do that before i tracked down 2 monoprice switches, or tried to use 2 of the otaku switches. 

@TDIRunner has a great recommendation as well. Lots of people in the PVM realm use these for their switch needs and love them. You can get them at a reasonable price as well. They are just pretty large and you have to grab some cheap RCA adapters. 

[TDIRunner | 2,774]

I paid $50 for mine back in 2018, but I have no idea what they go for today.  $50 included all of the blue Phoenix connectors that I needed which is good because those are hard to find.  However there was additional cost.  I had to buy a bunch of BNC to RCA adapters because it only came with a few.  Luckily, those are easy and cheap to find.  Next, I had to buy a bunch of RCA Y adapters which I had to cut up to splice into the Pheonix connectors.  Those are also easy to find, but time consuming if you are using all 16 inputs.  I can walk you through that stuff if you decide to get one.  

The programming is also tedious, but you only need to do it one for for the initial setup.  It saves your programming even if you unplug the unit.  I can also walk you through that stuff.  I would just need to give myself a refresher, because I haven't done any of this stuff since 2018.

[Magus | 169]

@TDIRunner They are about the same. $75-100 shipped. These are a little expensive, but plug and play. Keep in mind they only work on specific crosspoints with single row phoenix adapters.

https://www.retrogamingcables.co.uk/STEREO-SOUND-RCA-PHONO-TO-PHOENIX-5-WAY-ADAPTER-FOR-EXTRON-MATRIX-300-SWITCH?tracking=5543fb4c077bb

[TDIRunner | 2,774]

2 minutes ago, Magus said:

@TDIRunner They are about the same. $75-100 shipped. These are a little expensive, but plug and play. Keep in mind they only work on specific crosspoints with single row phoenix adapters.

https://www.retrogamingcables.co.uk/STEREO-SOUND-RCA-PHONO-TO-PHOENIX-5-WAY-ADAPTER-FOR-EXTRON-MATRIX-300-SWITCH?tracking=5543fb4c077bb

I kind of wish I had found those back in 2018.  I spent A LOT of time making my own.  I don't regret it though because it was sort of fun.  I was pretty damn efficient at it by the time I finished my 20th unit.  I ended up making 16 for inputs and 4 for outputs.  If my memory serves, the inputs were ever so slightly different from the outputs.    

[Magus | 169]

1 minute ago, TDIRunner said:

I kind of wish I had found those back in 2018.  I spent A LOT of time making my own.  I don't regret it though because it was sort of fun.  I was pretty damn efficient at it by the time I finished my 20th unit.  I ended up making 16 for inputs and 4 for outputs.  If my memory serves, the inputs were ever so slightly different from the outputs.    

Honestly these probably didn't exist when you did it, they are fairly new, so don't beat yourself up. Plus modding and customizing is part of the fun of running these setups IMO. But definitely time consuming! 

[TDIRunner | 2,774]

6 minutes ago, Magus said:

Honestly these probably didn't exist when you did it, they are fairly new, so don't beat yourself up. Plus modding and customizing is part of the fun of running these setups IMO. But definitely time consuming! 

Upon closer inspection, I'm not sure they would have worked on my unit anyway.  Maybe the top row, but certainly not both rows.  

[DefaultGen | 5,434]

I seek out enthusiast communities and try to find the stuff they buy, whether it’s some boutique garage-made thing or a pricey foreign commercial product. You can find enthusiasts for everything from vacuum cleaners to flight joysticks to hair clippers.

Amazon reviews get you nowhere because the average consumer standard is incredibly low.

[RH | 4,970]

1 minute ago, DefaultGen said:

I seek out enthusiast communities and try to find the stuff they buy, whether it’s some boutique garage-made thing or a pricey foreign commercial product. You can find enthusiasts for everything from vacuum cleaners to flight joysticks to hair clippers.

Amazon reviews get you nowhere because the average consumer standard is incredibly low.

It's funny you mention that.  As part of our move, we've borrowed a Rainbow vacuum cleaner from my wife's parents.  It's kind of like a shop vac and probably 35-45 years old.  Works like brand new.  We're in the market for a vacuum cleaner and everything out there is junk.  Sure Dyson has some "amazing tech" engineering, but from long-term reviews that I've read, they are made cheaply too and are not worth the money.

I'm not trying to just be an ole fart, but all I really want when I buy appliances is to find stuff (vacuums, refrigerators, washing machines, etc.) that is intended to be used for a "lifetime".  Our last washing machine has had to have multiple technician calls to fix it.  The repair man told me that in his observation, over the past 15 years or so, everything is made like cell phones--it works well for a specific lifespan of 5-10 years and then it's basically expected to be replaced.  Even the really expensive "smart" appliances are engineered this way, and they  are even some of the worst offenders.  I get it. "They don't make them like they use too" but the quality of engineering has swung so far in the cheap direction, even expensive stuff is disposable and I just don't agree with that philosophy.

Ok, I'll get off of my old man soap box.  Thanks guys.  This helps.

[DefaultGen | 5,434]

You might like the Reddit community BuyItForLife, where they look for quality things. Ironically the quality of the subreddit itself has gone a little downhill where people are just looking for decent things or asking for like boots that will last a lifetime which isn't realistic.

Also on a Reddit (or Youtube) note, I know this is going to give you personally biased responses, but I look for comments from repairmen. In vacuums for example, all the vacuum techs I've ever seen hate Dyson for their serviceability alone, and I'm inclined to listen to them because neither I nor 4000 random people on Amazon know any better.

[Tulpa | 3,537]

51 minutes ago, RH said:

 

I'm not trying to just be an ole fart, but all I really want when I buy appliances is to find stuff (vacuums, refrigerators, washing machines, etc.) that is intended to be used for a "lifetime".  Our last washing machine has had to have multiple technician calls to fix it.  The repair man told me that in his observation, over the past 15 years or so, everything is made like cell phones--it works well for a specific lifespan of 5-10 years and then it's basically expected to be replaced.  Even the really expensive "smart" appliances are engineered this way, and they  are even some of the worst offenders.  I get it. "They don't make them like they use too" but the quality of engineering has swung so far in the cheap direction, even expensive stuff is disposable and I just don't agree with that philosophy.

You can thank the "WalMart" mentality. People want stuff cheap. So the manufacturers responded; don't blame them too much. I mean, there's not much incentive to producing a quality product that'll last if you can't price it as cheap as what people want. Especially if your competitors are more than willing to do so. 

[TDIRunner | 2,774]

26 minutes ago, Tulpa said:

You can thank the "WalMart" mentality. People want stuff cheap. So the manufacturers responded; don't blame them too much. I mean, there's not much incentive to producing a quality product that'll last if you can't price it as cheap as what people want. Especially if your competitors are more than willing to do so. 

Don't forget to factor in "planned obsolescence."  

[Tulpa | 3,537]

4 hours ago, TDIRunner said:

Don't forget to factor in "planned obsolescence."  

Yeah definitely. I think that's a byproduct. If people had a problem with their stuff falling apart, they would have gravitated towards the manufacturers that were still "making them to last." But they didn't, they went for the cheap stuff in mass, and so the manufacturers said, "well, let's give them what they want, and if they have to buy it again in two years, even better!"

Edited August 31, 2020 by Tulpa

[Kguillemette | 1,547]

For what it's worth, I've had one of these for close to 10 years now and no issues. Nice picture quality and no fuss no muss to plug things in and out. There is a chance I just struck it lucky though and others will be garbage.

https://www.amazon.com/Fosmon-A1602-Splitter-Connecting-Devices/dp/B00HNCPR92/ref=sxin_13_ac_m_pm?ac_md=1-0-VW5kZXIgJDEw-ac_d_pm&cv_ct_cx=av+splitter&dchild=1&keywords=av+splitter&pd_rd_i=B00HNCPR92&pd_rd_r=c947dbd7-0cb1-4dd0-86dd-9be7b2ef5dfa&pd_rd_w=TIDEU&pd_rd_wg=RpGne&pf_rd_p=cecfef36-6622-42a0-9171-7212303b5ca3&pf_rd_r=AAX5MRV7D77F4A8ENYCG&psc=1&qid=1598925389&sr=1-1-3f74d940-526b-436f-a83d-f486577edf4d

[Brickman | 4,014]

It's hard to find good quality stuff and normally takes a lot of searching, maybe we should have a list on here?

I've found Retro Gaming Cables to be great for component & SCART cables, they're made in the UK: https://www.retrogamingcables.co.uk/index.php?route=common/home

[drxandy | 3,236]

I would go the matrix switcher route for 8 inputs, easier to have an all in one solution. 

If you needed less,  I use an audio authority 1154a - it has 1 input and 4 output but also switches optical audio and is signal sensing so it auto switches.

[Magus | 169]

@drxandy Wow, never seen this. I am gonna have to check this out. I like the monoprice i have, but this looks well made, curious on the performance of the signal.