Game Debate #161: Wario Land - Super Mario Land 3

[koifish | 557]

5 hours ago, Tanooki said:

WL2-4 aren't good, at least if you're after a Mario style Wario game.  They're just action puzzles, and they're incredibly NOT fun if not just downright boring or aggravating if you dislike that style of play as it's just a no death brain teaser of sorts to get through the stages as they go along.  WL on GB and WLVB are traditional platformers, so if you want a normal game with lives, the Mario take a hit or 2/super mechanic style platformer they're tops.  They should have retained this style and just did another line of Wario puzzle platformers, but instead went down that rabbit hole.

I think it was ok to go down that rabbit hole myself. They are different, playing more like metroid than like mario, but I don't think that is a problem. I like that the games are simple, in that they don't force you to do a lot of block by block searching (wario having a 2x2 attack surface means that smashing your way through stuff doesn't take as long or require the precision of an arm cannon or other block-by-block clearing), and you can have a lot of fun just smashing stuff without much risk. While I like them, I admit also that WL1 and VBWL are a bit frustrating to me, because there is never a time that being small wario is enjoyable. That is as much of a "get good" problem as you can have, maybe but you would be hard-pressed to find someone who perfect plays these games, and so I feel it isn't out of line to say that I dislike it. It's kind of like Gradius, where losing all your power-ups toward the end of a later stage means that you might as well just game over and do the level over, because you are so depowered vs. when you had your power-ups that you will likely die in rapid succession. I have no doubt in my mind that this too is a "skill issue" since ultimately, 1cc's are the target of this genre, but at the same time, I have noticed, through admittedly limited exposure, that the gradius style of death punishment seems to have largely died off in the genre. I wonder if it isn't for that very reason (and correct me if that is wrong of course).

My biggest complaint with WL4 was that it felt way too short. At least WL2 and 3 had a lot of stuff to do and levels to play (and replay). Yet, they managed to not overstay their welcomes, imo, in comparison to Shake It, on Wii, which to me almost feels like TOO much to do. 15 years later and I STILL haven't 100% cleared the game, and I have put a lot of hours into it. Some of the stage missions are just tedious, frankly speaking. I felt the same way about the GoodFeel-developed Streetpass games (Mii Force and Battleground Z) and so I wonder if that is just the style of the developer. I mean otherwise Shake It was, to me, an incredible game, so probably was just my feeling on their clear requirements.

I am torn about having to pick if one or the other was superior, and maybe previous post about WL made it seem like WL2-3 were outright superior. I feel that way, maybe, but that is like saying you have to pick a favorite on two flavors of ice cream you like. It's not like I would be upset if I got the other flavor, and in fact I would go to it sometimes too! But, in this series, if I had to pick a style that I prefer, then I would pick the exploration games. WL1 and VBWL are good, but their style is, for lack of better words, not as good a fit for Wario, in my opinion, as is the exploration style (and really, VBWL already goes in that direction with the treasures, so you would be hard-pressed to argue that they didn't intend to do this even earlier than WL2). Also, you should play WL1 before VBWL because otherwise you might feel disappointed by how impressive the controls, visuals, and game design are for VBWL, which even if it is shorter than WL1 by a lot, I think is a more fun experience. I just can't say that going from a later game to WL1 would be a move upward, so start with the first game.

[MagusSmurf | 577]

Wario Land 4 is not a no-death game like 2 and 3 btw.

Though it would probably be fair to say it's still way more about the exploration, Wario forms, and weird level gimmicks than the action gameplay.

Probably my favorite Wario Land. But I haven't really played VBWL or Shake It.

(Also, if Wario: Master of Disguise counts, that is the worst one I've gotten to)

[Tanooki | 4,943]

I've had WL1-4 and VB, also the GC game too(World.)  WL I played in order so the expectation was realized in order as it should be too.  I'm reading your post there @koifish and I guess I'd kind of have to agree, it would be a skill issue... WL, VB, and Gradius too.  It's just not your thing.  You want to do the slow thought out rubiks cube approach to Wario figuring out where to go, when to go, what to be turned into or not to get over the hump(s) of the stage.  I ..well I hate that, it's confusing and un-fun in every respect.

WL1 and VB to me (with GC too being 2.5D as it is) they're more like SMB style progression, that's my enjoyment.  I don't mind mini any more than being stuck as mini Mario, has a perk but many drawbacks depending on the moment.  And Gradius that's far worse once you're unpowered unless you're a fairly consistent player, which I no longer am, which make it kind of a pain, and my famicom copy of Gradius II an utter nightmare (G1 is cake compared.)

[AstralSoul | 502]

Ive loved it since the day it came out. Easy 9. Almost gave it a 10. I love the Wario Land games.

[koifish | 557]

11 hours ago, Tanooki said:

I've had WL1-4 and VB, also the GC game too(World.)  WL I played in order so the expectation was realized in order as it should be too.  I'm reading your post there @koifish and I guess I'd kind of have to agree, it would be a skill issue... WL, VB, and Gradius too.  It's just not your thing.  You want to do the slow thought out rubiks cube approach to Wario figuring out where to go, when to go, what to be turned into or not to get over the hump(s) of the stage.  I ..well I hate that, it's confusing and un-fun in every respect.

WL1 and VB to me (with GC too being 2.5D as it is) they're more like SMB style progression, that's my enjoyment.  I don't mind mini any more than being stuck as mini Mario, has a perk but many drawbacks depending on the moment.  And Gradius that's far worse once you're unpowered unless you're a fairly consistent player, which I no longer am, which make it kind of a pain, and my famicom copy of Gradius II an utter nightmare (G1 is cake compared.)

It's not so much that I always prefer that sort of game, just that to me, Wario is more fun in form when you play WL2 and 3 than when you play WL1. I'd say the same for Shake It, even if it's more like the first game. I just think it's more fun when you don't lose the power to smash and crash. Having deaths is no issue; I just want it to be always more interesting! The small Wario thing just feels like some Mario holdover anyway. I think they moved nowhere but forward when they ultimately moved to remove the downgrade from later games, like in Shake It.

[Tanooki | 4,943]

12 hours ago, koifish said:

It's not so much that I always prefer that sort of game, just that to me, Wario is more fun in form when you play WL2 and 3 than when you play WL1. I'd say the same for Shake It, even if it's more like the first game. I just think it's more fun when you don't lose the power to smash and crash. Having deaths is no issue; I just want it to be always more interesting! The small Wario thing just feels like some Mario holdover anyway. I think they moved nowhere but forward when they ultimately moved to remove the downgrade from later games, like in Shake It.

Oh no, I get it, the answer was a compare and contrast response.  I prefer the SMB style, you prefer the puzzle style play largely, and that's fine.  His games tended to go two directions based on every release.

[MegaMan52 | 2,452]

8/10

It's in my Game Boy Top 10.

[G-type | 2,487]

I’ve played Wario Land on the virtual boy so if that’s any indication, I’d probably like this one.