Estil | 1,267 Posted June 6, 2020 Share Posted June 6, 2020 12 minutes ago, MrWunderful said: I spent two weeks traveling the civil rights trail, educating myself on their struggle. Having that written off as “I have Black friends too” pissed me off. Oh yes, and some will even go so far as to say "my best friend is [insert minority race/ethnicity/whatever]!" That's nothing! My best friend isn't even of my species! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cartman | 195 Posted June 6, 2020 Share Posted June 6, 2020 2 minutes ago, arch_8ngel said: There is quite a vocal group that tries to make it sound like systemic racism isn't around anymore. There is still considerable systemic racism in place, whether the average person has explicitly racist attitudes or not. (Though there are still plenty of racist attitudes percolating as well) In what way is it around? What juridical or social rights is systematically being denied to blacks? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arch_8ngel | 1,597 Posted June 6, 2020 Share Posted June 6, 2020 4 minutes ago, cartman said: In what way is it around? What juridical or social rights is systematically being denied to blacks? Are you serious? Do you read the news? 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cartman | 195 Posted June 6, 2020 Share Posted June 6, 2020 2 minutes ago, arch_8ngel said: Are you serious? Do you read the news? Why wouldn't i be serious? How many interactions are there between the police and blacks in total and how many end up like Floyd? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arch_8ngel | 1,597 Posted June 6, 2020 Share Posted June 6, 2020 7 minutes ago, Scrobins said: I suppose that depends on your experiences. I changed what my default understanding of the word means because most of the people I knew used the definition I provided, including my college professors who are experts in the field of African & African American studies. I certainly haven't polled anyone about it, but in "real life" I don't think I have ever heard "racism" used in the shorthand for "systemic racism" rather than the commonly understood primary dictionary definition. And I don't actually think I had seen it used the way you describe online until sometime in the last year. I think trying to redefine the word to no longer need the additional "systemic" clarification is contributing to a lot of confusion in the conversation as people talk past each other without realizing the people they are talking to are using a different definition entirely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arch_8ngel | 1,597 Posted June 6, 2020 Share Posted June 6, 2020 Just now, cartman said: Why wouldn't i be serious? How many interactions are there between the police and blacks in total and how many end up like Floyd? Per capita, a disproportionate number compared to whites that end up that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrWunderful | 2,927 Posted June 6, 2020 Author Share Posted June 6, 2020 23 minutes ago, arch_8ngel said: Having been to the region and being somewhat familiar with how ethnically focused laws are in that part of the world, I am sure that is just an off the cuff example and Dave probably deals with it on a daily basis. I would be genuinely surprised if he wasn't being discriminated against on his housing/rent, for instance. But I am sure there are many daily interactions where whoever he is interacting with is making a whole slew of negative assumptions about Dave because of his race. And I am not AT ALL suggesting that Dave somehow has it as hard as a black person in America, and I doubt he was saying that, either. But he has a different insight into it than most of us would from our own personal experiences, unless we had spent significant amounts of time in places with strong laws supporting the native ethnicities versus immigrants. Im sure you are correct. He chose to go to taiwan though. So its much different in my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrWunderful | 2,927 Posted June 6, 2020 Author Share Posted June 6, 2020 3 minutes ago, cartman said: Why wouldn't i be serious? How many interactions are there between the police and blacks in total and how many end up like Floyd? How many go unreported? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cartman | 195 Posted June 6, 2020 Share Posted June 6, 2020 2 minutes ago, arch_8ngel said: Per capita, a disproportionate number compared to whites that end up that way. But blacks have a more pronounced gang culture take that into account aswell. Black men are disproportionately both the victims and the perpetrators of murder compared to their % of the population. With more interactions and more volatile neighborhoods there's an increased risk of a spillover effect onto someone innocent. I'm not saying the innocent are less innocent than anyone else but the circumstances for bad outcomes are different. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scrobins | 1,748 Moderator · Posted June 6, 2020 Share Posted June 6, 2020 3 minutes ago, arch_8ngel said: I think trying to redefine the word to no longer need the additional "systemic" clarification is contributing to a lot of confusion in the conversation as people talk past each other without realizing the people they are talking to are using a different definition entirely. Bear with me as I use the words “my” and “your” definition as shorthand. I think there’s an argument to be made that what your definition literally says was once sufficient to encapsulate the meaning of my definition. However with time as white people and others in America began using/co-opting the word to place their experiences on the same level as those of the black community to potentially evade criticism of their privilege, behavior, lack of action, I imagine it became necessary for the black community to clarify the meaning as they understand it so its meaning would not become diluted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cartman | 195 Posted June 6, 2020 Share Posted June 6, 2020 8 minutes ago, MrWunderful said: How many go unreported? You're guessing aswell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scrobins | 1,748 Moderator · Posted June 6, 2020 Share Posted June 6, 2020 1 minute ago, cartman said: But blacks have a more pronounced gang culture take that into account aswell. ARE YOU FUCKING KIDDING ME?!? 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cartman | 195 Posted June 6, 2020 Share Posted June 6, 2020 Just now, Scrobins said: ARE YOU FUCKING KIDDING ME?!? Why would i be kidding you? It's how it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrWunderful | 2,927 Posted June 6, 2020 Author Share Posted June 6, 2020 13 minutes ago, cartman said: Why would i be kidding you? It's how it is. No, its not. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cartman | 195 Posted June 6, 2020 Share Posted June 6, 2020 Just now, MrWunderful said: No, its not. How is it not the case? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arch_8ngel | 1,597 Posted June 6, 2020 Share Posted June 6, 2020 18 minutes ago, Scrobins said: Bear with me as I use the words “my” and “your” definition as shorthand. I think there’s an argument to be made that what your definition literally says was once sufficient to encapsulate the meaning of my definition. However with time as white people and others in America began using/co-opting the word to place their experiences on the same level as those of the black community to potentially evade criticism of their privilege, behavior, lack of action, I imagine it became necessary for the black community to clarify the meaning as they understand it so its meaning would not become diluted. My understanding is that it isn't about white people putting their hardships on par with racism, rather it probably has more to do with people saying "well I am not racist", which may well be accurate, which potentially detracts from efforts for systemic change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrWunderful | 2,927 Posted June 6, 2020 Author Share Posted June 6, 2020 1 minute ago, cartman said: How is it not the case? Is “black gang culture” more pronounced than the mob? The mafia? The yakuza? The IRA? Those are all “gangs”. So are khaki and blazer wearing white suburban alt right trolls, and fat guys sitting around a trailer park. Black gang culture exists for sure, dont get me wrong. But for you to think its more pronounced, is in itself proof of The argument being made its just how its framed in popular culture. You are from Europe arent you? If so, I dont expect you to understand. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cartman | 195 Posted June 6, 2020 Share Posted June 6, 2020 Just now, MrWunderful said: Is “black gang culture” more pronounced than the mob? The mafia? The yakuza? The IRA? Those are all “gangs”. So are khaki and blazer wearing white suburban alt right trolls, and fat guys sitting around a trailer park. Black gang culture exists for sure, dont get me wrong. But for you to think its more pronounced, is in itself proof of The argument being made its just how its framed in popular culture. You are from Europe arent you? If so, I dont expect you to understand. Yes there are more black gangbangers than members in the mob. The mob has a larger threshold for membership and also they don't war as much as streetgangs do or die in the same numbers. IRA isn't even active anymore let alone in American muder rate statistics. Internet trolls and fat guys in trailers are not prominent either. I didn't say there are no other famous gangs/organizations involved in crime i was talking about streetgangs, their membership base and the way they operate. The deathrate they contribute to in America. And black streetgangs are prominent in that respect. Why is the argument poor? Has the popular culture invented that these gangs and large number of murders take place and it isn't really true? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrWunderful | 2,927 Posted June 6, 2020 Author Share Posted June 6, 2020 Its not a 1990 rap video anymore. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silent Hill | 276 Posted June 7, 2020 Share Posted June 7, 2020 (edited) 9 hours ago, MrWunderful said: No but I was cuffed and watched my friend get smacked around by a cop because he was brown, and I didnt because I was white. Ive been to the Emmet Till sign. Ive walked across the Edmmund Pettis Bridge, in Selma. I went to little rock high school and saw the pictures in person of the Little rock nine getting spit on because they wanted to attend high school. Ive been to the Lorraine Motel. I had parishioners cook me a meal in the basement of the 16th ave Baptist church in Birmingham, Alabama. I met Rep John Lewis and spoke with him about how a young white Male can educate others on race relations. I dont expect anyone to know what most of that is, or why they are important to civil rights. Shit I dont even care if you believe me Im confident being lynched, murdered and beat because the color of their skin is different than being called “whitey” at a fucking restaurant. I may not be able to feel what all those people felt, but at least I made a concerted effort. 200+ years of systematic oppression is not the same as people not wanting to rent you an apartment. Check your white privilege EDIT: saw the subsequent posts, didn’t mean to be redundant Edited June 7, 2020 by Silent Hill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrWunderful | 2,927 Posted June 7, 2020 Author Share Posted June 7, 2020 Its not really about the worst racism. Its about discounting any of it. But yeah, I think I made my point. Anyways, I would have loved to see Trumps initial reaction when he found out Lisa Paige got a Job as an MSNBC analyst. Thats a breitbart comment section wet Dream. Might even watch Hannity just to see smoke come out of his ears. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fcgamer | 4,792 Posted June 7, 2020 Share Posted June 7, 2020 11 hours ago, MrWunderful said: White privilege victims. We only had so many poking around until Trump made it Cool (with a little help from Rush Limbaugh and Tucker Carlson) but now its all the rage. Step 1- Someone bring up racism? Pivot and talk about how YOUR life is unfair. I have no idea who Tucker Carlson is, and I don't watch / listen to / follow Rush Limbaugh, actually I don't follow Trump either. Guess again, Corey, sorry I'm not a case of white privilege gone wild. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fcgamer | 4,792 Posted June 7, 2020 Share Posted June 7, 2020 10 hours ago, Tulpa said: You really need to take a look at all the ways racism can creep into everyday life. Don't worry, you're not going to lose your ability to make fun of things. Like I said, there's a ton of shit in the world that is funny that doesn't resort to, you know, degrading someone for who they are. It doesn't have to be a conscious effort, it can work on the subconscious level, making these "microagressions" seem okay. And people do take their cues from pop culture, and not just the more racist stuff. That's why it gets so ingrained. It's stuck in the fabric. Yup, totally agree here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fcgamer | 4,792 Posted June 7, 2020 Share Posted June 7, 2020 9 hours ago, MrWunderful said: I know that Was “mostly” directed at me, and I said my Piece to @fcgamer . him and I have got into it over the years, and Have even bought and sold to each other so hopefully he knows I dont personally dislike him, just disagree on things. I still stand by everything I said. Comparing “X” to the discussion of systemic racism, is in itself proof of that racism. its kind of like when A white person says racism doesnt exist. Its not something that can be compared away, by saying “well whatabout this other thing” Corey's right, our relationship is interesting, haha, but I likewise want to throw it on the table that I don't have any problems or hold any ill-will towards anyone on here, and if someone feels that I do, please send me a message do that we can clear the air. Life's too short for that type of shit, and I believe that people can be fundamentally different yet still like/respect/ and be friends of each other. With that said, I'm going to make another post soon to elaborate more on my thoughts on the topic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fcgamer | 4,792 Posted June 7, 2020 Share Posted June 7, 2020 7 hours ago, Scrobins said: Except that racism isn’t just a mean remark, racism is the social and institutional oppression of a group of people such that authority itself is bent to subordinate them and deny them the basic tools to protect themselves or advance in society. As much as many East Asian cultures may have xenophobic tendencies, they have not enslaved white people, manipulated the law to incarcerate them en made them force them to perform labor virtually without compensation, or denied them basic services such as access to restaurants and swimming pools. Dave may have been the subject of prejudice (and I’m sorry to hear that happened to you), but he was not the victim of racism. Oh really? Are you sure? Reading your definition and looking at my experiences, yeah they line up pretty well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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