Have your views changed regarding graded games in 2023?

[GPX | 1,369]

3 minutes ago, ikk said:

Most graded games you see on european ebay are from the UK and graded by UKG, but if you actually look at the EU only 43 graded games sold in the past 3 months. Even if you do include the UK, there's still only 219 sales in the past 3 months.

There just doesn't seem to be much interest in graded games over here.

A lot of graded games are sold or traded in private. This was how I often obtained them for my collection. People would be connected via sealed gaming forums or Facebook etc. People often put in their lower-tier stuff on eBay and the rarer stuff are often kept or dealt with in private. Basically if you truly want the grails with graded stuff, you got to find connections, not look on eBay listings only.

[fcgamer | 4,723]

47 minutes ago, jonebone said:

Everyone is just a lot more selective these days.

In the up market it's easy to be a graded collector.  For a year or two there you could buy almost anything high grade and turn around and sell it at a profit in 3 or 6 months if you got bored with it.  Pretty easy to collect in that market.

In today's market, or the market of the last 2ish years now?  You have to look at every purchase as being immediately underwater.  Thus you're only going to buy it if you really like it or if you want it long term.  

Not to mention the space issue.  They take up too much damn room and if you collect a lot of things (platforms, games, consoles, toys, displays, cards, who knows what else) then you only have so much room to dedicate to them.

So why again is my John Maddens that was fabricated forty minutes from the shop I bought it in nos not a legit seal? Oh wait, yeah that's why folks don't care about sealed now. It was and is and always has been a huge wank fest for the in-crowd to line their pockets, while screwing everybody else.

[fcgamer | 4,723]

47 minutes ago, jonebone said:

Everyone is just a lot more selective these days.

In the up market it's easy to be a graded collector.  For a year or two there you could buy almost anything high grade and turn around and sell it at a profit in 3 or 6 months if you got bored with it.  Pretty easy to collect in that market.

In today's market, or the market of the last 2ish years now?  You have to look at every purchase as being immediately underwater.  Thus you're only going to buy it if you really like it or if you want it long term.  

Not to mention the space issue.  They take up too much damn room and if you collect a lot of things (platforms, games, consoles, toys, displays, cards, who knows what else) then you only have so much room to dedicate to them.

So why again is my John Maddens that was fabricated forty minutes from the shop I bought it in nos not a legit seal? Oh wait, yeah that's why folks don't care about sealed now. It was and is and always has been a huge wank fest for the in-crowd to line their pockets, while screwing everybody else.

[fcgamer | 4,723]

47 minutes ago, jonebone said:

Everyone is just a lot more selective these days.

In the up market it's easy to be a graded collector.  For a year or two there you could buy almost anything high grade and turn around and sell it at a profit in 3 or 6 months if you got bored with it.  Pretty easy to collect in that market.

In today's market, or the market of the last 2ish years now?  You have to look at every purchase as being immediately underwater.  Thus you're only going to buy it if you really like it or if you want it long term.  

Not to mention the space issue.  They take up too much damn room and if you collect a lot of things (platforms, games, consoles, toys, displays, cards, who knows what else) then you only have so much room to dedicate to them.

So why again is my John Maddens that was fabricated forty minutes from the shop I bought it in nos not a legit seal? Oh wait, yeah that's why folks don't care about sealed now. It was and is and always has been a huge wank fest for the in-crowd to line their pockets, while screwing everybody else.

[ikk | 560]

26 minutes ago, GPX said:

A lot of graded games are sold or traded in private. This was how I often obtained them for my collection. People would be connected via sealed gaming forums or Facebook etc. People often put in their lower-tier stuff on eBay and the rarer stuff are often kept or dealt with in private. Basically if you truly want the grails with graded stuff, you got to find connections, not look on eBay listings only.

You're the one who mentioned there were plenty on our ebay, I just got curious and checked if they actually sold

The reason I believe there is little interest is because I don't hear much about it on the Dutch gaming forums and discord groups I'm in. There might be other places where people trade graded stuff over here, but I don't know about them.

But again, I'm not against graded games and I wouldn't mind having a couple of my sealed games graded but I don't think it's worth the high cost with shipping and import tax and I'm fine with having those in regular acrilic display cases.

[GPX | 1,369]

15 minutes ago, ikk said:

You're the one who mentioned there were plenty on our ebay, I just got curious and checked if they actually sold

The reason I believe there is little interest is because I don't hear much about it on the Dutch gaming forums and discord groups I'm in. There might be other places where people trade graded stuff over here, but I don't know about them.

But again, I'm not against graded games and I wouldn't mind having a couple of my sealed games graded but I don't think it's worth the high cost with shipping and import tax and I'm fine with having those in regular acrilic display cases.

“Plenty” was reference to plenty of VGA listed examples via eBay Europe/UK, not reference to plenty sold on eBay.

To each their own on personal preferences to collect. I never come on here to push the agenda of hyping up graded games, just I like to talk about random gaming topics.

[Hammerfestus | 3,846]

1 hour ago, GPX said:

For those initial wave of big spenders from the WATA/HA era, I would probably agree. It was all about the e-peen and hype-fest. Only they actually don’t represent what graded collecting is really about.

The public have been fooled into thinking that it’s just for idiots wanting to splash their cash all over the internet. A lot of long term legit graded collectors I know are very insightful on this hobby, and aren’t interested in overspending by 100x market value.

Nah.   Nobody is interested in “overspending” no matter which slice of game collecting you are into.  Graded collecting was never some noble pursuit so let’s not mythologize it as such.   Pretty irritating attitude but that’s kind of always been graded collecting’s calling card hasn’t it?  I mean what do I know though as a public  

[CIB_Wholesale | 418]

the prices were only large on 1 particular site

 

ebay almost never gets above 5k on anything in open auction

 

none of the old graded collectors got any world record auction prices

 

there's no such thing as a HA comp because you cant list 1 thing you have to go thru a large approval process and submit an entire batch so dividing things into ' 1 comp' is nonsense; you would need the entire batch to determine what kind of DELTA you're getting overall from price charting

 

 

Edited November 22, 2023 by CIB_Wholesale

[GPX | 1,369]

6 hours ago, Hammerfestus said:

Nah.   Nobody is interested in “overspending” no matter which slice of game collecting you are into.  Graded collecting was never some noble pursuit so let’s not mythologize it as such.   Pretty irritating attitude but that’s kind of always been graded collecting’s calling card hasn’t it?  I mean what do I know though as a public  

I never said anything about being noble. I used the word “legit” graded collector, as in ones who were passionate about it before the pandemic craze. A lot of them go about their hobby without being too over the top. It’s unfortunately the loud mouths and the big egos that are commonly seen to represent the sealed/graded collecting community, which I honestly feel is a public misconception.
 

[CT | 91]

For awhile (the VGA days), I didn't mind graded games, although I've never bought any.

My perceptions/interest changed when I saw Deniz on Pawn Stars. It's just gotten worse since then. 

There was definitely some wacky stuff going on the higher end, but things have settled a bit.  I don't trust Wata or Heritage Auctions but perhaps they can rebuild trust somehow.

[YOURTURN | 1,256]

15 hours ago, GPX said:

You need to differentiate the greed and scum in the hobby as opposed to the passion of a graded collector.

2 completely separate entities, which I feel some on here are treating it as the same. No difference really if you take the greed and scum of the CIB scene and the passion of genuine CIB collectors.

^ 100% this.

I mean 1upped (not going to tag her here) is the very definition of a passionate graded game collector. With her passion being a motivation to a collector like me. I mean did she ever brag about how much she paid for a game? No. Did she also treat her collection as a social status? Also no. She made it her way to collect, she brought her passion of collecting to the boards, and those (again, including me) see her as a positive influence in this part of the hobby.

Then again... I have spanned my attempts at graded [insert product or type here] because I love the idea of owning a protected/slightly preserved collectible that I may never see in that condition again. Always with me losing money just because it was more about the passion than the value. With me supporting those who use their profits to finance their hobby, as opposed to just using hype to make a quick dollar. Just because that is how it should have been.

15 hours ago, jonebone said:

Everyone is just a lot more selective these days.

In the up market it's easy to be a graded collector.  For a year or two there you could buy almost anything high grade and turn around and sell it at a profit in 3 or 6 months if you got bored with it.  Pretty easy to collect in that market.

In today's market, or the market of the last 2ish years now?  You have to look at every purchase as being immediately underwater.  Thus you're only going to buy it if you really like it or if you want it long term.  

Not to mention the space issue.  They take up too much damn room and if you collect a lot of things (platforms, games, consoles, toys, displays, cards, who knows what else) then you only have so much room to dedicate to them.

I totally miss the days when "buying and selling" were nothing more than the ins and outs of this hobby. It made complete sense to me when somebody would buy a cart or CIB copy as a means to fill in a gap, or simply sell what they no longer want as a way to finance what they now want to collect.

Plus, the space scenario is why I have shrunk down my current graded collection goals. Because I have seen what you are talking about. And the results in some have me wonder what the collector had to sacrifice in the end.

14 hours ago, GPX said:

For those initial wave of big spenders from the WATA/HA era, I would probably agree. It was all about the e-peen and hype-fest. Only they actually don’t represent what graded collecting is really about.

The public have been fooled into thinking that it’s just for idiots wanting to splash their cash all over the internet. A lot of long term legit graded collectors I know are very insightful on this hobby, and aren’t interested in overspending by 100x market value.

That is pretty much it.

If this was a comic book thing, people would have mentioned how well known collectors bought certain issues in bulk all because of some shared speculated theory. With eBay showing signs that people ramped up prices for older raw and graded comic books just because they believed they could cash in before it happens. 

14 hours ago, fcgamer said:

So why again is my John Maddens that was fabricated forty minutes from the shop I bought it in nos not a legit seal? Oh wait, yeah that's why folks don't care about sealed now. It was and is and always has been a huge wank fest for the in-crowd to line their pockets, while screwing everybody else.

If you are talking about VGA, I have tried to bring up complaints on how lazy they are with foreign game titles/variants. In the end a few members here ended up downplaying that by saying "Anybody can see a sticker on the packaging." Which turned into a hilarious sense of irony because that excuse became an irony just because people complained about that same issue when Wata did it to a North American copy of a game. 

But yeah... I guess the reprisal of this report (click here) does point out that the pre-Wata era was worse. But even then, for every "for profit" teabagger there are those who collect graded collectibles for a legitimate reason (click here). With me learning for the past 10+ years is that those who turn into some type of wanker had also found themselves financially screwed over at some point. While the rest have nice collections they are willing to share online.

12 hours ago, Hammerfestus said:

Nah.   Nobody is interested in “overspending” no matter which slice of game collecting you are into.  Graded collecting was never some noble pursuit so let’s not mythologize it as such.   Pretty irritating attitude but that’s kind of always been graded collecting’s calling card hasn’t it?  I mean what do I know though as a public  

Hi... I'm that "nobody" you speak of. All because the idea of me overspending in hopes of either starting a collection, or have a better idea on how I want to build that collection, has been less stressful when compared to me trying to belong somewhere (both offline and online). 

Oh, and my means of aiming for a graded collection is tied to the idea that I would have it in the same condition when I am ready to pass it down to the next generation. Hopefully a future family member that I had grown to like.

2 hours ago, CT said:

For awhile (the VGA days), I didn't mind graded games, although I've never bought any.

My perceptions/interest changed when I saw Deniz on Pawn Stars. It's just gotten worse since then. 

There was definitely some wacky stuff going on the higher end, but things have settled a bit.  I don't trust Wata or Heritage Auctions but perhaps they can rebuild trust somehow.

Similar boat for me.

My introduction to CGA was tied to legitimate graded Transformers collectors. With this branching out to legitimate graded Star Wars collectors and even their VGA branch. Which itself resulted in me finding legitimate graded video game collectors. But that was pretty much it before my research had me see how bad this has become.

For beginners, the OP tied to this anti-CAS Star Wars topic (click here) was rumored to receive benefits from CGA for doing stuff like this. Between this, the responses I had gotten from a CGA representative, and the topic I had posted a link to (see above), all I saw was the effects that started during CGA's Tom Darby era to be similar (but in a more mild sense) to the one you have mentioned.

But like you said, these companies have to rebuild their trust in some form. With me guessing that for others, the "band waggoneers" no longer care just because CGC is their new fad. With those who stuck with Wata being no different those who still trust VGA when it comes to their own scandals. 

[jonebone | 1,307]

4 hours ago, YOURTURN said:

I totally miss the days when "buying and selling" were nothing more than the ins and outs of this hobby. It made complete sense to me when somebody would buy a cart or CIB copy as a means to fill in a gap, or simply sell what they no longer want as a way to finance what they now want to collect.

Plus, the space scenario is why I have shrunk down my current graded collection goals. Because I have seen what you are talking about. And the results in some have me wonder what the collector had to sacrifice in the end.

In a "mature" hobby with defined pricing and steady demand / supply, you'd expect to be able to get out of items near even, plus or minus fees and shipping.  I.e. if you bought something worth $1000 today and wanted to sell it next month, you should be able to get probably $850-$1150 if that pricing were fair and stable at the moment you bought it.

The market on the way up was so crazy that the $1000 could double to $2000 within months or sometimes much higher if you got lucky on the buy price and the item was in a drought.  Conversely on the way down, that $1000 could dwindle to $500 or less if you bought near the top and it was a case copy or supply kept coming out on it.  And over the long haul it was much worse, that $1k could have turned to $10k and could have turned to $100 depending on the title and how it went.

This is not just a graded games thing though, it's any speculative investment ever.  Beanie babies, VHS, crypto, etc.  People just keep focusing on video games because this is a video game forum and they like to rant.  It's really just a much broader argument about speculative investments and the cycles they follow.  The difference between this and something like beanie babies is that a stable set of core collectors always sets a floor to how low the games can fall, while beanie babies really had no organic collector base in the first place.

[Gulag Joe | 582]

Let’s not overlook the fact that pre-2000 game titles are in short supply in sealed condition. Sure some of these prices are coming down, but the supply certainly isn’t going up. There might only be 3 Super Mario 64 Red labels in 9.8 A++ condition, but there are only 94 total sealed SM64s that have been graded by Wata and that number has bottomed out since the million dollar sale. In comparison, there are over 1,600 1952 topps Mickey Mantles out there. The scarcity of sealed games is still a very real thing and it isn’t going to change. The “lost pallet of sealed games” hypothetical is pure fallacy.

[CT | 91]

5 hours ago, Gulag Joe said:

Let’s not overlook the fact that pre-2000 game titles are in short supply in sealed condition. Sure some of these prices are coming down, but the supply certainly isn’t going up. There might only be 3 Super Mario 64 Red labels in 9.8 A++ condition, but there are only 94 total sealed SM64s that have been graded by Wata and that number has bottomed out since the million dollar sale. In comparison, there are over 1,600 1952 topps Mickey Mantles out there. The scarcity of sealed games is still a very real thing and it isn’t going to change. The “lost pallet of sealed games” hypothetical is pure fallacy.

Since Wata lost credibility (and perhaps we could argue if they did or not, but many believe they have), how do we know the top grades are legitimate? How do we know that lesser grades were not graded that way on purpose (to limit the supply of top grades perhaps)? Who is grading the games, what's the chain of command at Wata? Perhaps these "perfect" grades actually have flaws (maybe overlooked accidentally, or on purpose). It's hard to trust Wata and their grades. What is the exact criteria for a top grade? Would these games get the same grade from a different grader at Wata? Human error happens, I have a PSA baseball card graded 10, but obviously off center.

Also, how many people own these sealed games that never intend to grade them.

Perceived scarcity is a feature of Wata, not a bug. 

[Link | 2,712]

6 hours ago, Gulag Joe said:

there are only 94 total sealed SM64s that have been graded by Wata and that number has bottomed out since the million dollar sale. In comparison, there are over 1,600 1952 topps Mickey Mantles out there.

How many of those Mickey Mantles are in mint condition?

[Gulag Joe | 582]

42 minutes ago, Link said:

How many of those Mickey Mantles are in mint condition?

9. Three times more than SM64. But if you want to count only gem mint, then 3 mantles are gem mint, equaling that of SM64. Therefore, SM64 pricing = 1952 Topps Mickey Mantle. This theory proves that SM64 prices are indeed true and accurate so we can now confidently say that myth has been busted.

[CT | 91]

32 minutes ago, Gulag Joe said:

This theory 

I'm gonna step out of this conversation. I'm happy to agree to disagree.

Happy Thanksgiving!

[RegularGuyGamer | 2,013]

1 hour ago, Gulag Joe said:

9. Three times more than SM64. But if you want to count only gem mint, then 3 mantles are gem mint, equaling that of SM64. Therefore, SM64 pricing = 1952 Topps Mickey Mantle. This theory proves that SM64 prices are indeed true and accurate so we can now confidently say that myth has been busted.

It's not the amount alone. It's the amount times their cost. That was you get essentially a "market capital" idea of what the market thinks the lot of each are worth.

It's actually a better argument to say if there are more 10s of one item and that item is more expensive,then that item will continue to pull a premium because clearly it has a higher overall market valuation. 

[YOURTURN | 1,256]

10 hours ago, jonebone said:

In a "mature" hobby with defined pricing and steady demand / supply, you'd expect to be able to get out of items near even, plus or minus fees and shipping.  I.e. if you bought something worth $1000 today and wanted to sell it next month, you should be able to get probably $850-$1150 if that pricing were fair and stable at the moment you bought it.

I have to agree.

Simply because the last decade by itself has become both a speculative market and a hobby for me. Not sure if it is for others, but it has for me. Because if it is not about me taking a chance on a product I see on eBay, it is also how "mature" those tied to the hobby can be when confronted with anything that does not fit their interests.

In the end I have also turned my financial losses into data that helps me figure out what I could improve on. It is not for everybody, but it does help me know know what to expect if I ever chose to revisit the need to do business with CGA, Super Potato, or even people in forums. As well as my interest in Sotheby's collaborations with NigoⓇ.

10 hours ago, jonebone said:

The market on the way up was so crazy that the $1000 could double to $2000 within months or sometimes much higher if you got lucky on the buy price and the item was in a drought.  Conversely on the way down, that $1000 could dwindle to $500 or less if you bought near the top and it was a case copy or supply kept coming out on it.  And over the long haul it was much worse, that $1k could have turned to $10k and could have turned to $100 depending on the title and how it went.

Also agree. Which is why I treat the collecting end of any hobby as a speculation market. And also regret knowing nobody in 2011 that was into video game collecting while I was preparing to receive permanent disability. But it also makes me feel a bit more grateful when I do business with Mandarake. Because I paid ~$20 USD (~$50 USD with shipping) for some rare promotional products that go for ~$200 USD (~$300 USD with taxes and shipping) on eBay

10 hours ago, jonebone said:

This is not just a graded games thing though, it's any speculative investment ever.  Beanie babies, VHS, crypto, etc.  People just keep focusing on video games because this is a video game forum and they like to rant.  It's really just a much broader argument about speculative investments and the cycles they follow.  The difference between this and something like beanie babies is that a stable set of core collectors always sets a floor to how low the games can fall, while beanie babies really had no organic collector base in the first place.

And once again, I agree. Just because the end result shows that only Nintendo has helped give the video game market said organic feeling. While the addition of forums and vlogs have helped reduce that organic status. With the end result being that while Beanie Babies fall under the same trend as Cabbage Patch Kids, the competitive end of the speculative market has helped all given hype a means to keep this side of every hobby afloat.

Which is why I took a page out of the vintage graded Star Wars collectors' rulebook and decided to have my current collection build be a more focus-based niche than complete. With me wondering if I should aim for variants of what I choose to collect, even though the more modern import market makes that be trickier than, let's say, this (click here).

[YOURTURN | 1,256]

7 hours ago, Gulag Joe said:

9. Three times more than SM64. But if you want to count only gem mint, then 3 mantles are gem mint, equaling that of SM64. Therefore, SM64 pricing = 1952 Topps Mickey Mantle. This theory proves that SM64 prices are indeed true and accurate so we can now confidently say that myth has been busted.

Just like @CT, I also have to agree to disagree.

But since this is Thanksgiving, I will point out that value is based on supply and demand. As opposed to hype-induced demand. With Mickey Mantle's demand being tied to legit sport enthusiasts. While Super Mario 64 was not given that much attention before the whole Wata-HA scenario.

Either way... I am asking those who do not know how to respond to what I say to use your time by donating to the @fcgamer NEEDS A BEER EVERY TIME HE IS REMINDED THAT THERE ARE THINGS WRONG WITH GRADING COMPANIES Foundation.

Thank you. And also happy turkey eating day. 

Edited November 24, 2023 by YOURTURN

[GPX | 1,369]

15 hours ago, Gulag Joe said:

9. Three times more than SM64. But if you want to count only gem mint, then 3 mantles are gem mint, equaling that of SM64. Therefore, SM64 pricing = 1952 Topps Mickey Mantle. This theory proves that SM64 prices are indeed true and accurate so we can now confidently say that myth has been busted.

High end SM64 isn’t going to be anywhere near as rare as the high end older collectibles with well established population reports. More of the high grade SM64 will likely come out in the coming years. Even if not many more come out, you’d have to have passionate collectors willing to spend over a million bucks for a game for it to be genuinely worth that much. Organic growth is what you want to see in a market, not sudden jacked-up prices and then a sudden drop off.

[ikk | 560]

16 hours ago, Gulag Joe said:

9. Three times more than SM64. But if you want to count only gem mint, then 3 mantles are gem mint, equaling that of SM64. Therefore, SM64 pricing = 1952 Topps Mickey Mantle. This theory proves that SM64 prices are indeed true and accurate so we can now confidently say that myth has been busted.

Why exactly would a 71 year old baseball card and a 27 year old game be equal in price..?

baseball cards != videogames

[Gulag Joe | 582]

54 minutes ago, ikk said:

Why exactly would a 71 year old baseball card and a 27 year old game be equal in price..?

baseball cards != videogames

I wasn’t entirely serious with that comment. But it is possible to link the two. Baseball card collecting has bottomed out, it’s now primarily a wealthy persons hobby. Card collector’s desire for rarity in serial numbered cards and low graded populations has transcended to video games. Many of these high dollar buyers are rare card and comic book collectors. It doesn’t stop at games though (VHS, cassette tapes, vinyl, laserdisc), it’s going to be all printed media as it all will soon become extinct.

[ApebitMusic | 130]

Graded vintage is awesome. The "games are meant to be played" argument is super silly, and I won't even bother with people about that at this point.

Getting brand new games graded though? Buying a 9.6 Super Mario Wonder for $150? I don't get it AT ALL. But hey, if you like it, you do that. 

Edited November 24, 2023 by ApebitMusic

[T-Pac | 7,548]

Pre-2020, I didn't really care for graded games. But I would still occasionally look in this subforum at people's slabbed pieces since they're still pretty neat even if it's not my thing.

During the Wata / Heritage explosion, I got sucked into the drama of it all and my interest peaked in the "graded games scene". Not as a participant, but as a confounded bystander who couldn't look away.

Now, I'm sort-of over the whole scandal and I'm back to just popping over here occasionally to look at a new post, say "neat", and move on.

[T-Pac]