Game Debate #174: Castlevania / Legacy of Darkness(N64)

[Tanooki | 4,937]

I liked both directions.

I disliked when they shafted one over the other.

The 2D style of game should have lived on further both in 3D and 2D style, and the SOTN type needed to be there as well too.  Goemon experimented with 2.5D and 3D and it worked.  Castlevania hasn't really touched this outside of the 3DS/Steam release in the Lords of Shadow-verse style and it's fine, the 2.5D style one really works well as a mix of NES/SOTN/God of War(growing your hp/mp and attack chains) nicely.  IGA picked up on that with Bloodstained too.

Legacy on N64 works, it was the finished game and it shows, and what was CV64 is still present, just fixed, largely what's missing is that cool opening symphony piece on the 64 title I did miss that.  With this topic I revisited CV64 (rosalies mupen windows) the other day and it's rough, rough like I remembered it.  it's hard and not because Castlevania is, but because CV64 is just beta-ware cobbled to work, it actively tries to hate and kill you at the same time from bad design and quirks that weren't ironed out.  If you fire it up, then Legacy right after, you see what an added 10months in the oven did to bake up what does actually work well which is a shame if like me, you bought that first one.

These days with the re-release of the GBA trio +DracX SNES in that advance bundle there's no reason not to give them a go as they're really quite good, especially Circle of the Moon and Sorrow, Harmony is solid but has a few oddities too, it's the middler that isn't as great (like how Portrait on DS kind of sucks while Aria and Eccelsia are good.)  I for one hope they find a way to gut the shitty forced touch mechanics off the DS titles and port them out to be played again, I'd buy that, and maybe they'd be non-jerks about ghosting it even more, and put the Castlevania Adventure Rebirth only on dead wiiware(ie: warez ware now) on there too.

[elprincipe | 142]

6 hours ago, Sumez said:

SOTN has had 7 follow-up games. I think we're alright.

I find it sad that these games never had any follow-ups. I'd have loved to see where they would take it.

They did a bunch of follow-up 3D games on PS2 and later...you haven't tried those? Or you feel they went in a different direction?

I loved the GBA/DS games. They all were great (to varying degrees). Order of Ecclesia is one of the best games I've ever played and certainly the best DS game overall.

[Sumez | 2,967]

2 hours ago, elprincipe said:

They did a bunch of follow-up 3D games on PS2 and later...you haven't tried those? Or you feel they went in a different direction?

I'm gonna assume you didn't play them if you think they even approached the same direction

The only thing they have in common is being 3D

I personally love SOTN, and I agree Ecclesia is fantastic! But I also agree we needed more 2d classicvanias still. I think the only ones they made since sotn were Legends (garbage) and Rebirth by M2 (awesome game at least). 

Edited October 12, 2023 by Sumez

[Reed Rothchild | 9,548]

Pointing out the obvious "classicVanias" Curse of the Moon 1 and 2 for the two people who don't know them.

[AstralSoul | 502]

I love these games and I genuinely think they're great, best 3D iterations of the series, and I'll take that to my grave. Both 9/10. 

[G-type | 2,482]

I beat the original Castlevania. Castlevania 2 was too confusing for me. Never played any others in the series, although I'm interested in Symphony and part 3.. and possibly the DS games

[fcgamer | 4,729]

5 hours ago, Reed Rothchild said:

Pointing out the obvious "classicVanias" Curse of the Moon 1 and 2 for the two people who don't know them.

Those aren't true Castlevania games though.

[Sumez | 2,967]

13 hours ago, Reed Rothchild said:

Pointing out the obvious "classicVanias" Curse of the Moon 1 and 2 for the two people who don't know them.

Aside from the fact that those aren't Castlevania games (if you include those, where do you draw the line? Is GnG Resurrection a classicvania? What about The Curse of Issyos, or Odallus?), I think people generally try to chalk them up as much more of a castlevania-like than they really are.

Are they classic-style 2D action games? Yeah. Do they feel specifically like classic Castlevania games? IMO Not really that much, not any more than a ton of other games do anyway. On top of that they have their own unique things going on which define the games even more IMO, and which I haven't really seen anywhere else. I love both of those games, but trying to pass them off as castlevania-clones (or homages) isn't really doing them justice.

It's not as egregious as people trying to pass off The Messenger as a Ninja Gaiden style game, however.  

Edited October 13, 2023 by Sumez

[Tanooki | 4,937]

There is a line I agree with that.  I mean you need I guess to define where a line would be set, trying to be an outstanding dead pan obvious clone?  Some of the staff of the franchise go elsewhere and make one of their own (Bloodstained SOTN style title IGA did,) or the not so well done Mighty No09?

I think a case could be made with the other 2D bloodstained games as that's still inti creates and IGA is one of the two producers on those games as well.  It's the SOTN era Castlevania staff in some part still making Castlevania in spirit, design, intent, other than in legal name due to Konami.

[Reed Rothchild | 9,548]

2 hours ago, Sumez said:

Aside from the fact that those aren't Castlevania games (if you include those, where do you draw the line? Is GnG Resurrection a classicvania? What about The Curse of Issyos, or Odallus?), I think people generally try to chalk them up as much more of a castlevania-like than they really are.

Are they classic-style 2D action games? Yeah. Do they feel specifically like classic Castlevania games? IMO Not really that much, not any more than a ton of other games do anyway. On top of that they have their own unique things going on which define the games even more IMO, and which I haven't really seen anywhere else. I love both of those games, but trying to pass them off as castlevania-clones (or homages) isn't really doing them justice.

It's not as egregious as people trying to pass off The Messenger as a Ninja Gaiden style game, however.  

Well I don't agree lol