Plagiarism in Video Games

[Ankos | 463]

I remember seeing cases of well respected game companies like Sega and SNK releasing games with plagiarism on their own consoles (Revenge of Shinobi on Genesis/MD and Nam-1975 on MVS/AES). I found these cases interesting since it sort of shows how some things that were allowed to slide back in the day, even amongst the big companies. I was wondering if anyone here wanted to share any cases that they remember. I'm guessing I will hear more cases about smaller companies, and ones that outsourced a lot. I don't think there is a commonly used term for licensed infringing games, and I'd be interested to hear what you all think they should be called (or we can just stick with licensed infringing since that is easy)

[darkchylde28 | 1,546]

One question I have about the two cases you mentioned is whether it's known if it was done intentionally, or if it was a case of an artist inserting  assets that they didn't have the rights to that inspired what they wanted for the game, then neglected or weren't allowed to go back and change them out for their own assets before the game went gold was published.  It's a bit of a black eye either way, but it's far worse if they did so knowingly and deliberately.

With that being said, in the two cases presented, were revised versions later produced to remove any infringing IP?  In the case of NAM 1975, looking at screenshots and video, I'm wondering if they really were truly plagiarizing/infringing on Apocalypse Now and Full Metal Jacket since they did art inspired by them, but not lifted wholesale from them (unlike the digitized Viet Nam era photos that appear behind the high score list).  I'm not saying that SNK isn't on some potentially shaky ground, but I don't know that there's enough case law on file to support them losing in court if they had been sued over it.

On the other hand, if Sega really did have straight up Spider-Man and Godzilla in the background of Revenge of Shinobi, that seems pretty damning.  Reading a bit on this online, it appears that originally, the Spider-Man character was meant to just be a ninja who resembled Spider-Man, but then shape-shifted into Batman, then the game was revised.  While the revision did change the "Batman" character enough to try to make it not Batman, they deliberately changed the colors and art for the Spider-Man character to make it more like Spider-Man.  This link appears to indicate that Sega actually did have the rights to use Spider-Man in such a manner (officially notated in the game's credits as of v1.02), but the Batman link within that wiki entry points out that they specifically didn't have the rights to Batman and had to change the likeness.  While there's not a page on there for Godzilla, the main page for the game seems to indicate they got into trouble for using his likeness, and by v1.03 had changed out his assets for a "dinosaur skeleton" instead.

Very interesting.

[fcgamer | 4,753]

Did they have permission for the references in Splatterhouse on Famicom?

[the_wizard_666 | 1,325]

A ton of games have straight up ripped off music.  Just throwing that out there.

[Sumez | 2,994]

5 hours ago, fcgamer said:

Did they have permission for the references in Splatterhouse on Famicom?

What does the Famicom Splatterhouse game infringe on? Off the top of my head it only uses public domain monsters.

There's a reference to MJ's Thriller of course, but I think it's vague enough that you can't call it infringement, since it's not making use of any actual IP.

Edited February 20, 2023 by Sumez

[Tulpa | 3,535]

4 hours ago, Sumez said:

What does the Famicom Splatterhouse game infringe on? Off the top of my head it only uses public domain monsters.

There's a reference to MJ's Thriller of course, but I think it's vague enough that you can't call it infringement, since it's not making use of any actual IP.

It gets away with it because it's a parody. It also has references to the face huggers from Alien, but it's clearly parodying the source material. If it was a more serious take, it might be on thinner ice.

[MagusSmurf | 577]

That one giant bug boss in the poison forest area from Crystalis is pretty clearly an Ohm from Nausicaa of the Valley of the Wind.

https://strategywiki.org/wiki/Crystalis/Bosses#Poison_Forest

https://www.google.com/search?q=ohm+nausicaa&tbm=isch

[Ankos | 463]

18 hours ago, darkchylde28 said:

With that being said, in the two cases presented, were revised versions later produced to remove any infringing IP?  In the case of NAM 1975, looking at screenshots and video, I'm wondering if they really were truly plagiarizing/infringing on Apocalypse Now and Full Metal Jacket since they did art inspired by them, but not lifted wholesale from them (unlike the digitized Viet Nam era photos that appear behind the high score list).  I'm not saying that SNK isn't on some potentially shaky ground, but I don't know that there's enough case law on file to support them losing in court if they had been sued over it.

On the other hand, if Sega really did have straight up Spider-Man and Godzilla in the background of Revenge of Shinobi, that seems pretty damning.  Reading a bit on this online, it appears that originally, the Spider-Man character was meant to just be a ninja who resembled Spider-Man, but then shape-shifted into Batman, then the game was revised.  While the revision did change the "Batman" character enough to try to make it not Batman, they deliberately changed the colors and art for the Spider-Man character to make it more like Spider-Man.  This link appears to indicate that Sega actually did have the rights to use Spider-Man in such a manner (officially notated in the game's credits as of v1.02), but the Batman link within that wiki entry points out that they specifically didn't have the rights to Batman and had to change the likeness.  While there's not a page on there for Godzilla, the main page for the game seems to indicate they got into trouble for using his likeness, and by v1.03 had changed out his assets for a "dinosaur skeleton" instead.

Very interesting.

There is a case to be made that the usage within these cases was fair game, but I think there is a pretty solid chance that they just tried it and did not get caught. In the case of NAM-1975 I saw a pretty good review of the game that had some side by side comparisons, and think that it is close enough that I'd be skeptical if it was truly alright. In the case of Sega, maybe they intended to go for the parody route, but considering they had to change out a lot of stuff, I'd say they did not succeed.

13 hours ago, the_wizard_666 said:

A ton of games have straight up ripped off music.  Just throwing that out there.

That is an excellent point. I remember hearing Rasputin by Boney M in one of the Digimon Battle Spirit games. I've heard that in Japan a company can hire JASRAC to go sort out paying royalties to other companies if you want to use music, which may be what some of these companies did, but paying royalties is only part of complying with IP law. I don't think music can be borrowed without crediting the artist if they don't give permission, even if the artist gets paid.

3 hours ago, Tulpa said:

It gets away with it because it's a parody. It also has references to the face huggers from Alien, but it's clearly parodying the source material. If it was a more serious take, it might be on thinner ice.

That does appear to be the intention, but we do have to consider that it still might have been problematic at the time. Monster Party had to get censored heavily, despite aiming to parody movies. While though I do not think Splatterhouse FC intended to infringe on IP, it may not have met the standards of the USA at the time, which is where some of the items it parodied were from. Considering that it did not get released in the USA, I do think there is a strong possibility that occurred

[Ankos | 463]

Here's some of those side by sides from that nam 1975 video

[Tulpa | 3,535]

23 minutes ago, Ankos said:

That does appear to be the intention, but we do have to consider that it still might have been problematic at the time. Monster Party had to get censored heavily, despite aiming to parody movies. While though I do not think Splatterhouse FC intended to infringe on IP, it may not have met the standards of the USA at the time, which is where some of the items it parodied were from. Considering that it did not get released in the USA, I do think there is a strong possibility that occurred

There's no "standard" of parody. It's taken on a case by case basis, and only in a court. There's no "parody watch" or "parody guideline" that's set in stone, except for any previous court decisions. It's whatever the creators (and their lawyers) think they can get away with.

You can create a parody and still get hauled into court. The parody angle is the defense you use to avoid judgment. The key is to make the parody so apparent that no one wants to bother with the legal expense.

I think Splatterhouse Wanpaku Graffiti didn't get a US release because they weren't sure that it would sell well as an NES game, rather than any IP concerns.

Edited February 20, 2023 by Tulpa

[Ankos | 463]

1 minute ago, Tulpa said:

There's no "standard" of parody. It's taken on a case by case basis, and only in a court. There's no "parody watch" or "parody guideline" that's set in stone, except for any previous court decisions. It's whatever the creators (and their lawyers) think they can get away with.

You can create a parody and still get hauled into court. The parody angle is the defense you use to avoid judgment.

Ah ok. Thank you for the explanation

[DarkTone | 988]

"If you steal from one source, its plagiarism. If you steal from many, its research". 

- Shigeru Miyamoto

[Link | 2,727]

56 minutes ago, DarkTone said:

"If you steal from one source, its plagiarism. If you steal from many, its research". 

- Shigeru Miyamoto

And are you Robin Hood, stealing a quote from one person and attributing it to another? Ha, I wouldn't have questioned this if you said it was Steve Jobs, but Mizner pre-dates him as well. 

[DarkTone | 988]

8 hours ago, Link said:

And are you Robin Hood, stealing a quote from one person and attributing it to another? Ha, I wouldn't have questioned this if you said it was Steve Jobs, but Mizner pre-dates him as well. 

Just to make it clear, Miyamoto never said it. I just thought it would be funny with him quoting it. 

[Tyree_Cooper | 772]

Golden Axe Warrior steals so much from The Legend of Zelda, that listing differences is faster than listing similarities.

[Ankos | 463]

11 minutes ago, Tyree_Cooper said:

Golden Axe Warrior steals so much from The Legend of Zelda, that listing differences is faster than listing similarities.

It does appear to be a pretty shameless clone. I remember hearing about a clone of Fire Emblem called Tear Ring Saga that was so shameless, that the devs got taken to court over it, and had to fork over a bunch of money

[Tyree_Cooper | 772]

I played through most of Golden Axe Warrior on the PS3 Sega collection (it is one of the few unlockable games). I was shocked as I had never played it before. It's a 1991 game that tries to copy everything from a 1986 game and manages to be bad! And some things you need to do in order to progress are even more obscure. Enraging.

[Ankos | 463]

5 minutes ago, Tyree_Cooper said:

I played through most of Golden Axe Warrior on the PS3 Sega collection (it is one of the few unlockable games). I was shocked as I had never played it before. It's a 1991 game that tries to copy everything from a 1986 game and manages to be bad! And some things you need to do in order to progress are even more obscure. Enraging.

I had no idea it got rereleased. I just assumed Sega buried it long ago and never looked back

[Tyree_Cooper | 772]

Well, that means Nintendo didn't sue them lol! Maybe they tried, but they couldn't just say they owned the mechanics/general concept. I know everybody copies something from somebody else when doing something new, but this one is way too blatant.

I'm sure Sega wasn't too proud of the game. Probably a quick cash grab. AFAIK the game was not even released in Japan... ??

For fans of Zelda, the game is still worth checking out. The atmosphere of the overworld part is not bad. There are a bunch of notable screens and I like the general melancholic/lonely atmosphere. It's just nowhere near as good and polished as Zelda. I also found it pretty hard and unforgiving.

[Ankos | 463]

16 minutes ago, Tyree_Cooper said:

Well, that means Nintendo didn't sue them lol! Maybe they tried, but they couldn't just say they owned the mechanics/general concept. I know everybody copies something from somebody else when doing something new, but this one is way too blatant.

I'm sure Sega wasn't too proud of the game. Probably a quick cash grab. AFAIK the game was not even released in Japan... ??

For fans of Zelda, the game is still worth checking out. The atmosphere of the overworld part is not bad. There are a bunch of notable screens and I like the general melancholic/lonely atmosphere. It's just nowhere near as good and polished as Zelda. I also found it pretty hard and unforgiving.

That's cool. I might give it a whirl someday

[MagusSmurf | 577]

30 minutes ago, Ankos said:

It does appear to be a pretty shameless clone. I remember hearing about a clone of Fire Emblem called Tear Ring Saga that was so shameless, that the devs got taken to court over it, and had to fork over a bunch of money

Nintendo filed more than one lawsuit over this.

They actually lost the first one that mostly focused on the similarities between Fire Emblem and Tear Ring Saga.

I'm not sure it mattered legally but Tear Ring Saga wasn't created by just some nobody - the main designer, Shouzou Kaga, was the creator of Fire Emblem. Kinda obvious and understandable why a tactical RPG made by the creator of Fire Emblem would pretty much look like a Fire Emblem game, even if the similarities get really ridiculous.

What really got TRS's developers in trouble in Nintendo's second lawsuit had more to do with the pre-release marketing for the game, which went as far as suggesting in interviews that Fire Emblem characters might show up at some point. Also the game's initial title (changed before release) was seriously going to be "Emblem Saga."

[Ankos | 463]

1 minute ago, MagusSmurf said:

Nintendo filed more than one lawsuit over this.

They actually lost the first one that mostly focused on the similarities between Fire Emblem and Tear Ring Saga.

I'm not sure it mattered legally but Tear Ring Saga wasn't created by just some nobody - the main designer, Shouzou Kaga, was the creator of Fire Emblem. Kinda obvious and understandable why a tactical RPG made by the creator of Fire Emblem would pretty much look like a Fire Emblem game, even if the similarities get really ridiculous.

What really got TRS's developers in trouble in Nintendo's second lawsuit had more to do with the pre-release marketing for the game, which went as far as suggesting in interviews that Fire Emblem characters might show up at some point. Also the game's initial title (changed before release) was seriously going to be "Emblem Saga."

Damn, sounds like they were really asking for it

[Sumez | 2,994]

2 hours ago, Tyree_Cooper said:

Well, that means Nintendo didn't sue them lol! Maybe they tried, but they couldn't just say they owned the mechanics/general concept.

Yeah as long as you aren't infringing on straight up trademarks, copyrighted assets, or patents, you're free to clone game mechanics as much as you want. And honestly, that's a good thing.

 

2 hours ago, Tyree_Cooper said:

I'm sure Sega wasn't too proud of the game. Probably a quick cash grab. AFAIK the game was not even released in Japan... ??

The game is generally considered one of the more coveted Master System games. I'm not sure why you'd say it's bad at all, it's a perfectly decent game, it just feels dated for 1991, as Zelda 1 would have. I think it's competently made and definitely not a "quick cash grab". I wish we could have gotten more zelda-inspired Golden Axe games down the line honestly. But at least we got Soleil.

[Tyree_Cooper | 772]

Maybe it's coveted for collection?

Granted, I played it last year for the first time, but it's a bad copy of Zelda from almost 4 years later. I can go back and play Zelda anytime, but not Golden Axe Warrior - I gave up after the 7th or 8th dungeon.

To me Golden Axe and Golden Axe II are the best of the series. The mechanics of III make it a completely different beast and I don't care much about the versus fighter episodes.

I'll have to try the Game Gear game one day.

Edited February 24, 2023 by Tyree_Cooper

[Ankos | 463]

Here is something interesting I heard about recently. Someone found that there are signs of Tiny Toons Adventure by Konami was made by reverse engineering SMB3. I know that gameplay copying is technically allowed, but when you match up parameters 1:1 with another game it becomes kinda shameless, even if the code isn't copied itself. I turned on google translate for the blog since I cannot read French, but if you want it untranslated here you go. Not sure if that quite hits the bar of plagiarism (it might) but it was still a fun read. They also have a blog post on a Star Wars title copying an Alex Kidd game