When is it worth getting a game graded?

[GPX | 1,369]

6 minutes ago, OptOut said:

Value isn't inherent to an item though, right? The value of an item is determined by various social and market factors, and will change arbitrarily according to these factors.

There is no such thing as a "TRUE" value, the "actual" value of an item is merely the value realised at a given point in time, usually when the item is transacted. The value of any item may alter drastically without ANY substantial change to the item itself.

Yep. Values are dynamic - they go up and down like a yo yo.

 

59 minutes ago, Code Monkey said:

Yes, now you are correctly understanding it. The pool of potential buyers may change but the actual value of the item does not change.

I think you’re talking about an item’s inherent worth, as opposed to the actual value. Look at all the values on eBay, HA or wherever else, are they all static, fixed-prices for the exact same condition?

[DoctorEncore | 3,691]

Lots of splitting hairs and semantics bogging down this discussion.

Grade a game if:

1. It is a high value item you want to sell and hope to extract maximum value from the market; or,
2. You want to confirm authenticity and condition of contents for your own curiosity; or,
3. You want to enshrine the item to maintain it in the best condition possible (although there is inherent risk of damage in the actual shipping and grading process).

I really can't think of any other legitimate reasons to do so.

Edited January 2, 2023 by DoctorEncore

[Code Monkey | 2,008]

8 hours ago, GPX said:

Yep. Values are dynamic - they go up and down like a yo yo.

 

I think you’re talking about an item’s inherent worth, as opposed to the actual value. Look at all the values on eBay, HA or wherever else, are they all static, fixed-prices for the exact same condition?

Think about it this way. Let's say I have a 1 of 1 prototype super rare version of a game that's worth $10,000.

I sell this game to you for $5 but I don't tell you any of the details so you just think it's a common version of the game that isn't worth much. You post it for sale online and can't get anyone to pay $5 for it because it doesn't look any different.

You then send it to Wata for grading and Wata confirms it is a super rare prototype worth way more and when you get it back, you sell it for $10,000.

Did Wata's grading add any value to the game? Or did it simply realise the existing value the game always had?

[CodysGameRoom | 2,008]

Like OptOut said, the value of something is only determined when a transaction occurs. Any attempt to assign value at any other time, and guess what might have an affect on that value is purely speculation, and speculation is useless.

If I'm a store owner, and I try to sell a game for $50, but no one buys it, then the game is not worth $50. If I lower it to $35, and it sells, then I know the value of the game. Before I sold it, I was speculating as to what I think the value is. 

It's possible to speculate and use information (was it graded or not, etc) to GUESS a better value, but you don't know the value for sure until money exchanges hands. 

[GPX | 1,369]

On 1/1/2023 at 7:10 AM, kiljo said:

I did a search and couldn't really find discussion on this topic (there was some here), but when is a graded copy worth a premium? 

Like if someone was selling a WATA 7.0 of The Legend of Zelda: Link's Awakening for the Switch, no one would pay a premium for that (I hope) cause you could just walk down to GameStop and buy a copy. But would a 9.4 be worth paying a premium of a current game?

If you were buying a CIB Super Metroid, would it be worth paying more for a graded 7.0 versus just a nice ungraded version? Do box/cartridge games have a lower rating to get a premium? (Since it's easy to damage a box, but a lot harder to damage a plastic case?)

And I know a lot of people don't believe in grading games, but from a financial standpoint the grade effects (affects?) the value at some point.

I think you’re basically asking what grades will make a profit, or worth the grading effort from a financial standpoint?

The answer is “it depends”. Will vary from title and what generation console and what brand company. To keep it simple, if you see the same item that sells commonly on eBay and is in common condition, then don’t bother grading it. Only grade (from a financial standpoint) if it’s in uncommon to rare condition, that you can’t easily find through eBay/online. This is just a general approach, and there will be more nuances to discover the more you buy/grade/sell.

 

[Gulag Joe | 582]

23 years ago Beckett valued a Joe Montana rookie card at $200. Then, they added a new section - the PSA graded section. A PSA 9 mint Joe Montana “booked” for $800. Ungraded mint vs graded mint. That same exact thing is happening to video games all these years later. 

[kiljo | 5]

9 hours ago, GPX said:

I think you’re basically asking what grades will make a profit, or worth the grading effort from a financial standpoint?

The answer is “it depends”. Will vary from title and what generation console and what brand company.

 

This is a really good way of putting my question, because this is exactly what I was trying to ask!

18 minutes ago, Gulag Joe said:

23 years ago Beckett valued a Joe Montana rookie card at $200. Then, they added a new section - the PSA graded section. A PSA 9 mint Joe Montana “booked” for $800. Ungraded mint vs graded mint. That same exact thing is happening to video games all these years later. 

I used to play Magic the Gathering and it has the same disparity... I feel like the true worth for grading with collectable cards is getting them authenticated, which I guess is a concern with games as well (but faking boards seems a lot harder than cards...)

[Gulag Joe | 582]

7 hours ago, kiljo said:

This is a really good way of putting my question, because this is exactly what I was trying to ask!

I used to play Magic the Gathering and it has the same disparity... I feel like the true worth for grading with collectable cards is getting them authenticated, which I guess is a concern with games as well (but faking boards seems a lot harder than cards...)

Very true. However, that won’t stop new companies from forming and grading fake stuff. The card industry has/had a bunch of grading companies pop up that “authenticate” fake cards and trim cards to be mint and grade them gem mint. This is what buyers need to watch out for- company integrity is key. I’m certain some new grading companies will eventually pop up down the road doing the same thing, but grading reproduction video game boxes with fake components and slabbing them to sell as genuine.

[YOURTURN | 1,256]

On 1/1/2023 at 7:30 PM, GPX said:

It isn't necessarily just the trust factor in a seller, but from online pics, it's often hard to really tell the differences between 9.4-9.8, or VGA90/VGA95. Third party grading lessens these relative uncertainties. With less uncertainties, the product has a better chance of market confidence and therefore higher offers will likely result.

I agree with you on this. However, the confidence is tied more to brand accountability than anything else. Which is a problem because a company like CGA does not put in the same level of work like Wata does. But many who scramble for their brand do not care that CGA's former owners have done things similar to what Wata is accused of doing. Nor many will question the authenticity of a graded product because it has the AFA/VGA sticker on it. But regardless of that, I still trust the grades I have gotten from AFA, VGA, and CAS than what a seller has told me prior to me getting the item.

On 1/2/2023 at 8:47 AM, Code Monkey said:

Did Wata's grading add any value to the game? Or did it simply realise the existing value the game always had?

Value is arbitrary. A sealed game is worth its original retail price, with general increases being tied to stuff like inflation and grading/slabbing fees. With those paying to have games graded actually paying more for the cases than the grade. Auction houses like Sotheby's will also state that the value of a product is based more on what they think it will sell in an auction. Meaning that some will pay a higher sum for said product for their own reasons, as opposed to make an effort to win it for less through an auction. Thus, the realization a buyer has is tied to what they think it is worth. 

On 1/3/2023 at 12:26 PM, Gulag Joe said:

Very true. However, that won’t stop new companies from forming and grading fake stuff. The card industry has/had a bunch of grading companies pop up that “authenticate” fake cards and trim cards to be mint and grade them gem mint. This is what buyers need to watch out for- company integrity is key. I’m certain some new grading companies will eventually pop up down the road doing the same thing, but grading reproduction video game boxes with fake components and slabbing them to sell as genuine.

I have seen CGA do both that, and similar things, in their AFA department long before we found out they have graded bootleg Pokémon games. For example both AFA and UKG have graded Toy Toni sealed Star Wars figures as authentic. Which, if asked, is one of the top reasons why I am wary of buying anything outside the three stores I trust. As well as why I am only focusing on having whatever PS4/PS5 games I want to have graded for preservation/display purposes.

[inasuma | 1,203]

On 1/1/2023 at 10:48 PM, darkchylde28 said:

I respectfully disagree with you there.  You're right in separately defining those two aspects, but what you're missing is the fact that confirming value tends to add value simply because buyers don't have to guess and gamble and can be certain that they're getting exactly what they're buying.  You're correct in the idea that adding a plastic coffin doesn't inherently make what's inside more valuable.  However, the confirmation of value that the plastic case provides, as well as the sense of safety and security that the item's condition and value will be maintained because of it can, and often absolutely does add some level of price increase to the item (even if it doesn't enhance the base/inherent value of the entombed item itself).

If I were going to put money into collecting sealed stuff, I would be far, far more comfortable purchasing stuff that had already been confirmed to be at whatever level I specifically wanted the item to be at.  I'd also be far more secure in keeping graded items in my home simply due to how easily the condition of raw items in like condition can be degraded by even the most commonplace of occurrences (box falls over, box falls off the shelf, something falls on the box, someone grabs the box with too strong a grip, etc.).  There's value in security and the peace of mind it brings.  While that itself isn't truly a part of the value of the item itself, when you take a game and seal it up as it's being graded, the lines blur there, with the value of what the grading and the protective cases added by graders bring being combined with that of the graded item.

Do I think that the additional value that a respectable grading company's service brings is worth what the most common graders are charging?  Absolutely not.  However, I can see how the perceived and public value of the item being graded can be enhanced because of them.

This guy games

[Tyree_Cooper | 755]

meanwhile they grade a pceworks repro like it's an original 1993 release

it sure adds value to monkeys eating bananas in borneo

[JamesRobot | 5,800]

The most worthwhile games that should be graded are the defective ones.  Oh the delicious irony of grading and pimping a copy of a truly worthless game elevating it beyond its useless status, when grading a fully working copy ultimately renders it functionally useless.  It feels even better than repros slipping through because it's totally legit.  Bonus points if you get investor bros to bid on it.

Now that's high art.

[YOURTURN | 1,256]

1 hour ago, Tyree_Cooper said:

meanwhile they grade a pceworks repro like it's an original 1993 release

it sure adds value to monkeys eating bananas in borneo

And those who are using those brands as an excuse to deflect the fact they are willing to sell a repro as authentic are not the bigger issue here? 

However... I am sure that Wata's new owners would have bought any graded by the company. Just not sure about VGA since they offer no details and have a shadier history than most here know about.

Also... Your last statement sounds like a yaoi-themed Dragon Ball story that Frieza would have written. 

[Tyree_Cooper | 755]

no because the whole point is that the grading company will know what the game is. i can submit a pceworks dracula x to them and tell them it's a 1993 release. they shouldn't care and grade according to their amazing knowledge and impartiality, regardless of everything going on and regardless of all that the customer has said or suggested to them. they are responsible for their grading, not the customer.

but yeah of course, i agree BOTH are a problem. it's just shocking they graded it without mentioning. the question is, did they do it in purpose or did they not notice? In both cases, they show that they are 100% unreliable and nobody should ever give them a dollar anymore. but people just see what they want to see and will make up any excuse suits their interests to keep grading games with these "companies".

[YOURTURN | 1,256]

4 hours ago, Tyree_Cooper said:

no because the whole point is that the grading company will know what the game is. i can submit a pceworks dracula x to them and tell them it's a 1993 release. they shouldn't care and grade according to their amazing knowledge and impartiality, regardless of everything going on and regardless of all that the customer has said or suggested to them. they are responsible for their grading, not the customer.

Yes, the entire point of paying a grading service is also to have said product be certified as authentic. But it does not excuse anybody from asking the grading company if they have a policy when it comes to situations like that. Because anybody who expects a service to be done perfectly are the last to complain if their game is a repro. Double if they chose one that has a "no refund" or a "no buy back" policy if that ever turns out to be the case.

Thus the bigger issue is not the chance a grading company does a slip up. It's the fact that there are sellers who will cry "Libel!" and threaten to sue because they choose to put money before doing what is right.

4 hours ago, Tyree_Cooper said:

but yeah of course, i agree BOTH are a problem. it's just shocking they graded it without mentioning. the question is, did they do it in purpose or did they not notice? In both cases, they show that they are 100% unreliable and nobody should ever give them a dollar anymore. but people just see what they want to see and will make up any excuse suits their interests to keep grading games with these "companies".

And yet, the submitter has the following options before they choose to pay for said service:

• Contact the grading company and ask them anything not discussed on their website. (Such as what to do if an authenticated item turns out to be a reproduction, etc.)
• Seek out websites, forums, blogs, vlogs, etc. that contains any leads to finding out if the item in question is authentic or not.

With added details showing that CGA has, and still will, correct these types of mistakes. With CAS also willing to do it, as they have a "satisfaction guaranteed" promise. And Wata, despite having their clause being tied to Colorado and not California, willing to do the same.

Thus the point being is that your only given example is tied to a seller who chose to make legal threats instead of just having the issue corrected. Which is why any neglect after the submitter gets said incorrectly graded game is not the grading company's fault. 

But I will say this, even my edit of what I am saying did not help me understand VGA's new TOS. So my guess is that they'll correct said mistake unless they have legal reasons not to. 

Edited January 10, 2023 by FenrirZero

[YOURTURN | 1,256]

7 hours ago, JamesRobot said:

The most worthwhile games that should be graded are the defective ones.  Oh the delicious irony of grading and pimping a copy of a truly worthless game elevating it beyond its useless status, when grading a fully working copy ultimately renders it functionally useless.  It feels even better than repros slipping through because it's totally legit.  Bonus points if you get investor bros to bid on it.

Now that's high art.

In my defense I have opted to only submit Japanese releases simply because I also buy my U.S. games digitally. 

[Tyree_Cooper | 755]

No, look, I don't think you're getting the point. If you send in your car for repair, and they return it to you with an unbolted wheel, and you have an accident, it's not your fault because you didn't check all the bolts and went through the manual screw by screw and asked on a forum before using the car. It's the fault of the repair company and exclusively theirs. You are not supposed to be a car expert yourself. And even if you are, it's still their fault. Even if you're the best mechanic and the best F1 driver, yep, still their fault.

You pay for a service, they are responsible for what they do. They grade a fake as the the real deal, it's their fault. I'm not talking about the owner threatening someone who pointed out that the game was fake. I'm talking about the owner owning something that someone has failed to identify the way they should have. Whether the owner is aware or not, and whether he and the grader knew beforehand what they were grading is a different problem.

Also, just like I said, since you grade games, it will not be possible for you to ever agree with me that grading sucks a dromedary scrotum and is completely useless at best. No big deal. You guys have no choice but to defend them since you give them money to increase the value of your games. You obviously don't need them to tell you on a shitty sticker label that your seal is real. Let's be real.

[GPX | 1,369]

10 hours ago, Tyree_Cooper said:

No, look, I don't think you're getting the point. If you send in your car for repair, and they return it to you with an unbolted wheel, and you have an accident, it's not your fault because you didn't check all the bolts and went through the manual screw by screw and asked on a forum before using the car. It's the fault of the repair company and exclusively theirs. You are not supposed to be a car expert yourself. And even if you are, it's still their fault. Even if you're the best mechanic and the best F1 driver, yep, still their fault.

You pay for a service, they are responsible for what they do. They grade a fake as the the real deal, it's their fault. I'm not talking about the owner threatening someone who pointed out that the game was fake. I'm talking about the owner owning something that someone has failed to identify the way they should have. Whether the owner is aware or not, and whether he and the grader knew beforehand what they were grading is a different problem.

Also, just like I said, since you grade games, it will not be possible for you to ever agree with me that grading sucks a dromedary scrotum and is completely useless at best. No big deal. You guys have no choice but to defend them since you give them money to increase the value of your games. You obviously don't need them to tell you on a shitty sticker label that your seal is real. Let's be real.

I agree with some of your sentiments but I disagree with your overall negativity towards grading as a service and as a collecting method. Some actions by grading companies may be questionable in their intentions, appearances on TV shows and media interviews also can be questioned. However, the negative actions doesn’t equate to the actual practice of grading as a negative/evil entity. 

I doubt anyone on this forum would question the validity of grading services for coins and comics. Surely there must be some purpose to it right? Well the same applies to the grading of games. I’m a sealed/graded collector and I have no problems if people call out dodgy actions with grading companies, if it’s justifiable. You take the good with the bad, just like with loose and CIB collecting. There’s dodgy shit happening with sellers and companies everywhere in this world!

Edited January 10, 2023 by GPX

[PekoponTAS | 171]

I don't see the value in it, but I'm also not the target for such a service. I'm sure it's worth it to those who do it.

[YOURTURN | 1,256]

13 hours ago, Tyree_Cooper said:

No, look, I don't think you're getting the point.

I have tried to be nice to you, despite the reality you spend more time treating your views as facts than you actually look up facts. With you saying this being both asinine and lazy. All because you think you are right.

For beginners, I have tried out both CGA and CAS, as well as have bought items by UKG, CGC (comics), CBCS, and a few card grading companies. With the same level of intent placed into my first freelance article I wrote for one of Beckett's publications. (My second, and last, was not fun to write for them.)

All you have given me is nothing more than angry accusations that are not even direct responses, with intent for you to act like you know more than others who are not even members here. Which includes Tom Darby, who used to be part of CGA long before there was competition. Along with those in the Transformers and Star Wars toy collecting communities, who have reported issues similar to the only game you chose to use as fodder.

If you want to continue this claim, feel free. Those who choose not to be you are going to hear me say that I have spent money using both CGA and CAS's services just to see how I like them. I have asked questions to CGA, CAS, Wata, CGC, CBCS, and UKG (with UKG being the only one who has ghosted me). And I have even read reports like this one.

With the point being that your example is more about the seller being an issue than the slip-up. With an adage being that representatives for those grading companies saying their info is not always up-to-date. Simply meaning that when your example was graded as authentic, the grading company might not have known about the reproductions.

Have you thought of that? I cannot say. And will not address from this point on. It's a waste of my time and tolerance.

Now if you don't mind I would like to support your right to not have things graded. Just like how I came here to support those who have their own reasons to have things graded.

Oh... And to find out how shiny and metal @JamesRobot's ass is. (^_^)v

Edited January 11, 2023 by FenrirZero

[JamesRobot | 5,800]

47 minutes ago, FenrirZero said:

Oh... And to find out how shiny and metal @JamesRobot's ass is. (^_^)v

And how shiny is it?

[YOURTURN | 1,256]

5 minutes ago, JamesRobot said:

And how shiny is it?

It's so shiny people want it for the Pokémon Go collection!

...But not shiny enough for people to kiss.

[JamesRobot | 5,800]

36 minutes ago, FenrirZero said:

It's so shiny people want it for the Pokémon Go collection!

 

Shut up, baby, I know it!

[Tyree_Cooper | 755]

2 hours ago, FenrirZero said:

With the point being that your example is more about the seller being an issue than the slip-up. With an adage being that representatives for those grading companies saying their info is not always up-to-date. Simply meaning that when your example was graded as authentic, the grading company might not have known about the reproductions.

A slip-up? It's the only thing they're supposed to do, and can't even do it right. Have those idiots ever seen a legit sealed Dracula X? It has a tearstrip visible from 100 meters away. If they are not aware of it being a repro, based on what did they authenticate the seal?

Happy grading

[YOURTURN | 1,256]

11 minutes ago, Tyree_Cooper said:

A slip-up? It's the only thing they're supposed to do, and can't even do it right. Have those idiots ever seen a legit sealed Dracula X? It has a tearstrip visible from 100 meters away. If they are not aware of it being a repro, based on what did they authenticate the seal?

Happy grading

As my genetic paternal cousin, who is on my late father's late mother's late mother's side when it comes to the Doyle end of my family tree, once said...

"I never guess. It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts."

For beginners your claims that video game authenticators must be flawless in their findings is impossible, and not improbable. While you calling them idiots for such a slip-up, as I have listed 20 of yours in this topic, is valid simply because Wata's authenticator might have felt that way after the game was returned to the submitter.

As for the slip-up bit... I'll be polite and just list yours instead of doing any childish name calling.

SLIP-UP NUMBER...

1. You are not a professional authenticator and have no idea how hard the job really is.
2. You have not worked for any of the grading companies you claim to be an "expert" on.
3. Your repeated piece of "evidence" was not submitted by you.
4. The seller of that graded repro threatened to sue because they believe it is authentic.
5. The seller of that graded repro has not contacted said grading company with said new info.
6. The seller of said graded repro is not you, thus omits any validity your claims hold.
7. You never offered any proof that all grading companies say their authenticators are flawless.
8. You never offered any proof that all grading companies will correct their side of this issue.
9. You never offered any proof the grading companies are legally excused from a situation like that one.
10. Your assumptions that authenticators are "flawless" has been proved false time and time again.
11. You have made no efforts to contact said grading companies about said topic.
12. You have made no efforts to contact said grading company about that specific game.
13. You have made no efforts to discuss their own TOS have to say on the subject.
14. Your entire argument is about a single game, and not the entire scenario tied to it.
15. Your entire argument omits the fact that it is a Japanese release.
16. Your entire argument omits the fact that graded Japanese ports are not that common.
17. Your entire argument omits the fact that not many are true experts on Japanese ports.
18. Your entire argument deflects the responsibilities of the submitter.
19. Your argument dismisses the fact there is no "definitive database" for all authenticators to use. 
20. And you constantly mention the same product, but also failed to notice that it is CIB (i.e. NOT sealed).

I'll stop at that one because here is the update to the original video. What he says has points, and I hope what he heard is true. Otherwise I am going to have to ask Wata since it has caught my interest.

You will hear that they removed the seal because they knew it was not authentic. Then that Wata realized they graded a reproduction, asked the submitter to return it, and the submitter refused due to his original claims.

Which is funny because if it is true, Madlittlepixel has verbally validated what I was saying to you.

Oh... And I am going to have fun playing those games once I have a PS5, with my graded copies safely displayed in a way that even those who do not support graded games understand why I got them graded. *wink*