Sega Genesis Sonic 3 Legit Seal/Fake?

[dyer | 202]

Hi guys, looking for some help please. I have had this in my collection for a few years, picked it up in a trade. I was considering passing it on so took it out of storage for some pics. I’m no expert in Genesis seals so what’s the thoughts on this, also after a close look the “Sega” logos on the artwork look to be slightly blurred only slightly but raises a small flag for me. 
 

Loads more pics here; 

https://imgur.com/a/UDgJ2EY

Thanks in advance.

 

[GPX | 1,371]

It looks legit to me, granted I only have a few sealed Genesis games and no expert on Genesis sealed items. The inlay looks the right color and the seal looks the right type also. The wear you see on the seals at the corners is also consistent with age-wear for a lot of these types of games.

[darkchylde28 | 1,546]

Has anyone done documentation on the types of materials used when sealing games back in the day?  I know there's tons of information out there about what seals there were, what they look like, etc., but I've never seen any regarding the plastic actually used.

The reason I ask, is that in those days, I never once encountered a game, be it for console, computer, etc., that was shrink wrapped in anything other than a material that was somewhat pliable and had some stretch to it when being removed.  More modern shrink wrap, specifically that used in private shops, or sometimes even non-first-party chains, has almost always been of a stiff, crinkly variety, reminiscent of cellophane.  The modern stuff has always seemed to have much more material sticking up around the seams, with a hard/sharp texture to it.

I've had some folks say I'm nuts for pointing out the differences between these types of materials, but never having encountered anything but the former type back when these items were on the shelves, and only encountering the latter in more modern times (nearly always used to re-seal previously opened games, or, in my area, frequently used to keep coiled cords wrapped up tight & snag free, or sealing accessories in with systems ready for sale), I'm left scratching my head why it seems like nobody else has taken notice of this.

This might seem out of left field, but looking at the photos provided, the material used to seal the game being shown seems to be of the latter, more modern variety, showing shallower lines where stretched over the hang tab, and stretching far less than the former material would.  The case itself looks completely legit to my eye, but the seal itself looks like something that any Software Etc./Babbages/Game Stop or small independent shop with a sealing machine could and would have done back in those days.  Here's a good question:  If Sega shipped these games in this manner, how did they expect retailers to hang them on the hang tabs without breaking the seal--something that could prevent a customer from being able to return their purchase?

[GPX | 1,371]

13 hours ago, darkchylde28 said:

Has anyone done documentation on the types of materials used when sealing games back in the day?  I know there's tons of information out there about what seals there were, what they look like, etc., but I've never seen any regarding the plastic actually used.

The reason I ask, is that in those days, I never once encountered a game, be it for console, computer, etc., that was shrink wrapped in anything other than a material that was somewhat pliable and had some stretch to it when being removed.  More modern shrink wrap, specifically that used in private shops, or sometimes even non-first-party chains, has almost always been of a stiff, crinkly variety, reminiscent of cellophane.  The modern stuff has always seemed to have much more material sticking up around the seams, with a hard/sharp texture to it.

I've had some folks say I'm nuts for pointing out the differences between these types of materials, but never having encountered anything but the former type back when these items were on the shelves, and only encountering the latter in more modern times (nearly always used to re-seal previously opened games, or, in my area, frequently used to keep coiled cords wrapped up tight & snag free, or sealing accessories in with systems ready for sale), I'm left scratching my head why it seems like nobody else has taken notice of this.

This might seem out of left field, but looking at the photos provided, the material used to seal the game being shown seems to be of the latter, more modern variety, showing shallower lines where stretched over the hang tab, and stretching far less than the former material would.  The case itself looks completely legit to my eye, but the seal itself looks like something that any Software Etc./Babbages/Game Stop or small independent shop with a sealing machine could and would have done back in those days.  Here's a good question:  If Sega shipped these games in this manner, how did they expect retailers to hang them on the hang tabs without breaking the seal--something that could prevent a customer from being able to return their purchase?

I don’t think you can simplify it into the 2 groups of shrink-wrap seals - retro and modern. I have some sealed PC, Megadrive/Genesis, SNES and PS1 sealed games, and they come in various types, and I think it varies for different platforms and different distributing companies. Also, the seals themselves can change in different climates eg. humidity, heat; which further complicates matters.

[jonebone | 1,307]

Something feels a bit off to me initially as well. I also remember someone selling a ton of fakes sometime in thr 3 to 5 year ago window, kept relisting around 75 or 100 if I recall. If you have other sealed Genesis games try flicking the wrap slightly. Authentic has a very distinctive feel and sound believe it or not.

[darkchylde28 | 1,546]

2 hours ago, GPX said:

I don’t think you can simplify it into the 2 groups of shrink-wrap seals - retro and modern. I have some sealed PC, Megadrive/Genesis, SNES and PS1 sealed games, and they come in various types, and I think it varies for different platforms and different distributing companies. Also, the seals themselves can change in different climates eg. humidity, heat; which further complicates matters.

Across all the time from the early 80s to the late 90s and/or early 2000s, sure.  But I recall all Atari 2600, NES, Genesis, SNES, Game Boy, computer (PC, Mac, various 8-bit) etc. titles wrapped in the same type of shrink wrap which had a bit of stretch to it (as it always wanted to stretch a little when being pulled off) versus the "hard" stuff that reminded me of fancy cellophane which crinkled and crackled quite a bit when you'd try to mold it around something you were wrapping.  I never saw the cellophane-type used on anything until I encountered it in third party shops which were re-sealing games to ensure people didn't pull the contents out of CIB stuff, or (used by Game Stop/Software Etc./Babbages as well) used to bundle systems with their included accessories in an easily visible format.

Yes, over time the stuff can change, but the boxes that I have from that era that still have their wrap attached still feel mostly the same as they did in that era, even if they may have stiffened a little bit.  A little bit of flex going out of the vintage material doesn't make it akin to the "hard," crinkly, "cellophane" type wrap used in cheap machines easily and commonly found in the back of many resale shops starting (for me) toward the late 90s and continuing on even today in some spots.

A similar, but less hard and crinkly material was used to wrap PS1 and PS2 games, but it wasn't as thick and seemed to be folded neatly around the cases versus just heating the material up and pinching off the end to seal games into whatever sort of wrap had been devised.  This was the exact same sort of stuff that was used on music CDs and even cassettes back in "the day."  Never having been exposed to TG16/PCE stuff while it was new, I could easily imagine this type of stuff being used to wrap them given their form factor, but can't really comment one way or another given my total lack of exposure to sealed product back then (and only in the random photo even today).

However, the photo in question is of a Genesis cart which absolutely appears to have been resealed by a third party if for no other reason than the hang tab is sloppily bent over and wrapped up too, leaving it unable to be used by retailers unless they broke the packaging open themselves, something every one I'm familiar with heavily frowned upon (outside of GameStop who would keep 1-2 "display" copies opened, then sell them as "sealed" with their own sticker seal on them when sold out of legit sealed copies).

So again, what's the deal with the two materials, and did anyone actually ever encounter the second type back when these games were all new?  Anyone have any photos of Genesis games in a sales case in K-Mart, Walmart, a local/regional retailer, etc. showing carts wrapped up as the one in question is?  If so, I'd love to see it so that my questions (and I imagine others) regarding these types of seals seen every now and then can be put to rest.

[GPX | 1,371]

7 hours ago, darkchylde28 said:

Across all the time from the early 80s to the late 90s and/or early 2000s, sure.  But I recall all Atari 2600, NES, Genesis, SNES, Game Boy, computer (PC, Mac, various 8-bit) etc. titles wrapped in the same type of shrink wrap which had a bit of stretch to it (as it always wanted to stretch a little when being pulled off) versus the "hard" stuff that reminded me of fancy cellophane which crinkled and crackled quite a bit when you'd try to mold it around something you were wrapping.  I never saw the cellophane-type used on anything until I encountered it in third party shops which were re-sealing games to ensure people didn't pull the contents out of CIB stuff, or (used by Game Stop/Software Etc./Babbages as well) used to bundle systems with their included accessories in an easily visible format.

Yes, over time the stuff can change, but the boxes that I have from that era that still have their wrap attached still feel mostly the same as they did in that era, even if they may have stiffened a little bit.  A little bit of flex going out of the vintage material doesn't make it akin to the "hard," crinkly, "cellophane" type wrap used in cheap machines easily and commonly found in the back of many resale shops starting (for me) toward the late 90s and continuing on even today in some spots.

A similar, but less hard and crinkly material was used to wrap PS1 and PS2 games, but it wasn't as thick and seemed to be folded neatly around the cases versus just heating the material up and pinching off the end to seal games into whatever sort of wrap had been devised.  This was the exact same sort of stuff that was used on music CDs and even cassettes back in "the day."  Never having been exposed to TG16/PCE stuff while it was new, I could easily imagine this type of stuff being used to wrap them given their form factor, but can't really comment one way or another given my total lack of exposure to sealed product back then (and only in the random photo even today).

However, the photo in question is of a Genesis cart which absolutely appears to have been resealed by a third party if for no other reason than the hang tab is sloppily bent over and wrapped up too, leaving it unable to be used by retailers unless they broke the packaging open themselves, something every one I'm familiar with heavily frowned upon (outside of GameStop who would keep 1-2 "display" copies opened, then sell them as "sealed" with their own sticker seal on them when sold out of legit sealed copies).

So again, what's the deal with the two materials, and did anyone actually ever encounter the second type back when these games were all new?  Anyone have any photos of Genesis games in a sales case in K-Mart, Walmart, a local/regional retailer, etc. showing carts wrapped up as the one in question is?  If so, I'd love to see it so that my questions (and I imagine others) regarding these types of seals seen every now and then can be put to rest.

I appreciate you going at length with your observations back from the 80s to 90s. It would be definitely worthwhile for all sealed collectors to know of the seal types and around what year they were implemented. 

Though I stress again that knowing the sealed-type won’t give you a full picture. It’s always best to compare with other sealed collectors of the same platform because there can be variants of seals for the same game due to several factors:

- depends on the factory of the seal origins, and what machine they used

- depends on what country it was produced (eg. US, Mexico, Europe, Australia)

- depends on what production run the game is in (eg. early production vs mid/late production)

—————————

@dyer, I’ll try and dig out some of my Genesis sealed games and add more to this thread if I have anything new to add.

[darkchylde28 | 1,546]

Just now, GPX said:

I appreciate you going at length with your observations back from the 80s to 90s. It would be definitely worthwhile for all sealed collectors to know of the seal types and around what year they were implemented. 

Though I stress again that knowing the sealed-type won’t give you a full picture. It’s always best to compare with other sealed collectors of the same platform because there can be variants of seals for the same game due to several factors:

- depends on the factory of the seal origins, and what machine they used

- depends on what country it was produced (eg. US, Mexico, Europe, Australia)

- depends on what production run the game is in (eg. early production vs mid/late production)

—————————

@dyer, I’ll try and dig out some of my Genesis sealed games and add more to this thread if I have anything new to add.

And, to further explain, I'm not so much after what type of seal it was (H vs Y vs whatever) but the material being used to seal the product.  Yes, material could differ from country to country, but based on my observations of various types of games up and down the cost of the Eastern US (including a launch NES and a couple of launch titles), the secondary material I refer to in both posts doesn't appear anywhere until the late 90s, and then only in second hand reseller shops (both independent and chain), specifically to re-seal previously opened product or seal together various bits that they wanted to sell together (such as consoles bundled with controllers, cables, etc.).

Do you have any actual exposure to the material in question before the late 90s when, presumably, small resealer machines became economical enough that small, independent retailers could start picking them up en masse?  I've yet to have anyone confirm even anecdotally that they actually remember that stuff prior to it being used by anyone and everyone to reseal product for third party resale.  And absolutely no photos or video of such seals in the wild, but more than enough pics of Nintendo and Sega titles on the shelves sporting their era-correct (as I remember it) material to seal their games.

[dyer | 202]

On 6/29/2021 at 12:50 AM, darkchylde28 said:

Has anyone done documentation on the types of materials used when sealing games back in the day?  I know there's tons of information out there about what seals there were, what they look like, etc., but I've never seen any regarding the plastic actually used.

The reason I ask, is that in those days, I never once encountered a game, be it for console, computer, etc., that was shrink wrapped in anything other than a material that was somewhat pliable and had some stretch to it when being removed.  More modern shrink wrap, specifically that used in private shops, or sometimes even non-first-party chains, has almost always been of a stiff, crinkly variety, reminiscent of cellophane.  The modern stuff has always seemed to have much more material sticking up around the seams, with a hard/sharp texture to it.

I've had some folks say I'm nuts for pointing out the differences between these types of materials, but never having encountered anything but the former type back when these items were on the shelves, and only encountering the latter in more modern times (nearly always used to re-seal previously opened games, or, in my area, frequently used to keep coiled cords wrapped up tight & snag free, or sealing accessories in with systems ready for sale), I'm left scratching my head why it seems like nobody else has taken notice of this.

This might seem out of left field, but looking at the photos provided, the material used to seal the game being shown seems to be of the latter, more modern variety, showing shallower lines where stretched over the hang tab, and stretching far less than the former material would.  The case itself looks completely legit to my eye, but the seal itself looks like something that any Software Etc./Babbages/Game Stop or small independent shop with a sealing machine could and would have done back in those days.  Here's a good question:  If Sega shipped these games in this manner, how did they expect retailers to hang them on the hang tabs without breaking the seal--something that could prevent a customer from being able to return their purchase?

Thanks, really interesting topic actually and you raise some good points.

It does appear to be the latter, i.e. more stiffer style material.

Having not paid to much attention to Genesis seals in the past (I'm a Mega Drive collector and in general neither PALK  nor Japanese releases came shrink sealed, although some Akklaim/Konami games did) and now starting to do some research there are certainly a lot of unanswered questions, the hang tab issue being one. 

 

 

[dyer | 202]

22 hours ago, jonebone said:

Something feels a bit off to me initially as well. I also remember someone selling a ton of fakes sometime in thr 3 to 5 year ago window, kept relisting around 75 or 100 if I recall. If you have other sealed Genesis games try flicking the wrap slightly. Authentic has a very distinctive feel and sound believe it or not.

Thanks for the head up on that, I don't have a comparison point sadly, taking a quick look over some completed eBay auctions the seal does seem similar.

What would you say that feel and sound is like?

[GPX | 1,371]

12 hours ago, darkchylde28 said:

And, to further explain, I'm not so much after what type of seal it was (H vs Y vs whatever) but the material being used to seal the product.  Yes, material could differ from country to country, but based on my observations of various types of games up and down the cost of the Eastern US (including a launch NES and a couple of launch titles), the secondary material I refer to in both posts doesn't appear anywhere until the late 90s, and then only in second hand reseller shops (both independent and chain), specifically to re-seal previously opened product or seal together various bits that they wanted to sell together (such as consoles bundled with controllers, cables, etc.).

Do you have any actual exposure to the material in question before the late 90s when, presumably, small resealer machines became economical enough that small, independent retailers could start picking them up en masse?  I've yet to have anyone confirm even anecdotally that they actually remember that stuff prior to it being used by anyone and everyone to reseal product for third party resale.  And absolutely no photos or video of such seals in the wild, but more than enough pics of Nintendo and Sega titles on the shelves sporting their era-correct (as I remember it) material to seal their games.

Yes I’m talking about the material used when I previously mentioned “sealed-type”. You pose a lot of good questions, and ones I’m keen on knowing too! I have to delve deep into my sealed inventory to take more notice of the specific materials. Unfortunately right now, most of them are stored in boxes and I will need time to sort through them (likely weeks to months). My next post shortly after this, should give some better context to the OP’s question.

[GPX | 1,371]

@dyer, here is a sealed Genesis NBA Live game I own. This is 100% legit as I personally purchased this as old retail stock from a past game store owner.

There is a hangtab on top of the factory sealed (at the back). The seal material appears to be of a similar type to the Sonic 3, as well as a similar sealed process at the top region. This game would have been produced around mid-90s, and likely to be of a similar period to the Sonic 3.

[jonebone | 1,307]

54 minutes ago, dyer said:

Thanks for the head up on that, I don't have a comparison point sadly, taking a quick look over some completed eBay auctions the seal does seem similar.

What would you say that feel and sound is like?

Can't describe it really, you just learn with experience.

End of day I'm not comfortable with it though. No overlap seam on back like the ones in completed and the hangtab looks to be too far up without poking through the plastic.  Looks like it was already popped up and seal was applied afterwards. Original seal would have the hangtab applied down with more pressure or it would poke through and cause a hole if rising that high (which is more typical with what happens).

[darkchylde28 | 1,546]

3 hours ago, GPX said:

Yes I’m talking about the material used when I previously mentioned “sealed-type”. You pose a lot of good questions, and ones I’m keen on knowing too! I have to delve deep into my sealed inventory to take more notice of the specific materials. Unfortunately right now, most of them are stored in boxes and I will need time to sort through them (likely weeks to months). My next post shortly after this, should give some better context to the OP’s question.

Most of my friends weren't purchasing Genesis carts at/toward the end of the life of the system, so I'm less familiar with them, but I'd be willing to say that this cart most likely has a legit seal, as the material looks to be of the former type, even though the hang tab is sealed inside.  One thing to note (which I've noticed on games that I have which still have them intact) is that the hang tab is flat against the cart, basically 90 degrees from the edge it's connected on.  As many of these as I've seen exactly like this, I'd wager that the carts were originally shipped this way from the manufacturer, with the tab only being pulled upright when the carts were to be hung.  The one in the original post certainly isn't in this orientation, nor is it quite upright, again indicating to me that someone resealed this without much care (or information) as to how this would have originally shipped and/or been sealed.

[dyer | 202]

7 hours ago, jonebone said:

Can't describe it really, you just learn with experience.

End of day I'm not comfortable with it though. No overlap seam on back like the ones in completed and the hangtab looks to be too far up without poking through the plastic.  Looks like it was already popped up and seal was applied afterwards. Original seal would have the hangtab applied down with more pressure or it would poke through and cause a hole if rising that high (which is more typical with what happens).

Yeh I’m not comfortable with it either, hence the ask.

I think the negatives outweigh the positives to be honest. 

 

[GPX | 1,371]

2 hours ago, dyer said:

Yeh I’m not comfortable with it either, hence the ask.

I think the negatives outweigh the positives to be honest. 

 

To be honest, as sealed collectors, there’s always going to be a time when you see something that looks 50/50 (legit/resealed). This may well possibly be an after-factory sealed, but it may well be a legit/variant factory sealed. I suggest wait for another 1-2 weeks to see if other collectors here can chime in with further info or insight. You’d really want answers from a hardcore Genesis sealed collector who collects mainly the sealed Sega stuff.

[jonebone | 1,307]

1 hour ago, GPX said:

To be honest, as sealed collectors, there’s always going to be a time when you see something that looks 50/50 (legit/resealed). This may well possibly be an after-factory sealed, but it may well be a legit/variant factory sealed. I suggest wait for another 1-2 weeks to see if other collectors here can chime in with further info or insight. You’d really want answers from a hardcore Genesis sealed collector who collects mainly the sealed Sega stuff.

I'm not 50/50 on it, I'm 99/1. And I have at least 100 sealed Genesis at this point for what it's worth. 

[GPX | 1,371]

7 hours ago, jonebone said:

I'm not 50/50 on it, I'm 99/1. And I have at least 100 sealed Genesis at this point for what it's worth. 

I’m not doubting your overall knowledge in the sealed games arena. Nor have I claimed to be an expert in Genesis sealed games. The issue I have is that you can’t just say “it’s not the type of material you’d expect and therefore a resealed”. You’re not leaving room for other sealed variants.

My suggestion to wait for a couple of weeks to get more insight is a genuine suggestion for assisting the OP. What would be nice is if someone who actually has a Sonic 3 sealed game and shows us their copy, or to share any further knowledge on any other variant factory seals.

[GPX | 1,371]

@dyer, I dunno if this will confuse you more or help you..

I’ve checked some more Genesis games I own bought from the same previously mentioned ex-game store owner of old retail stock:

There’s 3 sealed types here:

1. FIFA 95 (top left) soft material with a  vertical seam down its back.

2. Madden 96 + 97 (2 games on the right of top row) soft material; one has factory error hangtab not in proper location, another has the sealed broken at the top.

3. Monopoly and Race Driving (more tougher material seal with a gap at the top region.

————

The above probably doesn’t give you the answer you’re after, but just to show that different types of seals were used in the Genesis era, and the Megadrive too (I’ve seen different types of outer seals too for Pal MD with Konami and Acclaim games). 

[dyer | 202]

@GPX Really appreciate the effort.

There are certainly a range of seals, I think you are spot on a direct comparison with other Sonic 3 games is likely the best chance to validate either way.

The points @darkchylde28 has made regarding hang tab, material etc stand out for me and my gut says there is something off.

Let's see what shows up.

[darkchylde28 | 1,546]

9 hours ago, GPX said:

The issue I have is that you can’t just say “it’s not the type of material you’d expect and therefore a resealed”. You’re not leaving room for other sealed variants.

I don't think there's really an issue here at all, so long as we get enough folks to weigh in.  If you found a 30s sedan with a fiberglass body, anyone with virtually any knowledge of cars of that era would immediately say something was wrong with it due to that material simply not being used then, even if it existed and someone, somewhere might have gotten a wild hair.  The fact is, Ford, Chevy, etc. simply weren't using the material even if some other third party folks were, making any vehicles you found in that state fakes and/or obviously tampered with after they left the OEM.  We absolutely don't have any sort of firm consensus on the material idea that I've put forth, but I don't think you can shut out the possibility of folks in the know ultimately being able to say "it's not the material that was used at that time, therefore it's not OEM."  As I threw out as a possibility/guess previously, perhaps Sega shipped some cases of games in clamshells alone, without an actual wrap seal around them.  In those cases, even if a non-OEM put the first/original seal on those carts, they still wouldn't be considered "factory sealed" in the same manner as other carts due to the fact that the OEM didn't send them in that manner, using that material.

9 hours ago, GPX said:

@dyer, I dunno if this will confuse you more or help you..

I’ve checked some more Genesis games I own bought from the same previously mentioned ex-game store owner of old retail stock:

There’s 3 sealed types here:

1. FIFA 95 (top left) soft material with a  vertical seam down its back.

2. Madden 96 + 97 (2 games on the right of top row) soft material; one has factory error hangtab not in proper location, another has the sealed broken at the top.

3. Monopoly and Race Driving (more tougher material seal with a gap at the top region.

————

The above probably doesn’t give you the answer you’re after, but just to show that different types of seals were used in the Genesis era, and the Megadrive too (I’ve seen different types of outer seals too for Pal MD with Konami and Acclaim games). 

Since this guy wasn't part of the standard retail chain, I would suspect that your class 3 options are seals/reseals that the guy you bought them from (or perhaps his distributor) did in-house.  The seam doesn't even go all the way around, something that even questionable seals always seem to have (despite the occasional small hole or much smaller gap).  When did you buy these from the guy?  If it wasn't when those titles were released (Monopoly was supposed to have released in 1991 and Race Drivin' in 1993, well before I ever saw the questionable material used on a game), I would highly suspect a well done, back room reseal, perhaps in the same vein of what GameStop does.

8 hours ago, dyer said:

@GPX Really appreciate the effort.

There are certainly a range of seals, I think you are spot on a direct comparison with other Sonic 3 games is likely the best chance to validate either way.

The points @darkchylde28 has made regarding hang tab, material etc stand out for me and my gut says there is something off.

Let's see what shows up.

Thanks for actually getting/allowing conversation on this to start.  I recall trying to start this type of discussion on NA a bunch of years ago and getting cut to pieces by the "experts" who didn't want to hear anything about or pay any attention to the idea, not even to offer expert details about whether the material I questioned was actually in use or not.

As for other Sonic 3's, looking at this one, it seems that the hang tab on that cart may have had issues with popping up, as it does in the example I found on eBay as well.  However, looking at the photos of the seal itself, the material looks like it's most likely the softer, more pliable material that I (and apparently others) recall being exclusively used to seal boxed video games of the era versus the stuff that I tend to call "modern," which, unfortunately, your cart looks like it's wrapped in.

[spacepup | 2,405]

The only logical solution here is to open it up and let us know if it looks used or not!

 best of luck to ya!

[The Count | 528]

The hangtab gives me pause.

[MrMooseMoose | 9]

I have the same exact seal as you looks like, and I’m wondering if mine is legit myself, with no h Seam running down the back. Everything about it seems legit in terms of weight and feel though. 

[MrMooseMoose | 9]