PC Engine Output

[Californication | 1,490]

I am jumping into the PC Engine and need some help. 

I think I am going to purchase a Turbo Duo R and only collect jntsc. I was planning on hooking the console up to my tv that only has component and HDMI input. I found a nice lookong console that outputs in RGB. It seems like converting from scart to component should be easy, does anyone know if there is an inexpensive converter with little or no lag?

Once I started looking into a converter I am starting to think an unmodded PC Engine and a retro tink or another TV with component input are a better idea.

[Tanooki | 4,952]

The retrotink probably is the best choice, but there's really no great reason is there really to go with the Duo R?  When i got a duo awhile back that I'm getting rid of now, I didn't see good reason other than the 6 button controller to buy the R as it's not anymore durable than the other Duos.  Instead I went for one with various internal improvements instead, such as RGB amp, a far superior super capacitor so save data lasts more than days between use, etc.

[Californication | 1,490]

@Tanooki,

Honestly the whole thing is very confusing there seem to be a lot of variables.

I originally wanted an rgb modded rx because of the reliability, but when I started looking at the prices they seemed more than I wanted to pay. So I started looking at model R's and figured it wouldn't be so bad to only play japanese games (forgetting about the lower reliability). Now that I am looking at model R's a lot of the RGB mods seem to come with scart cables so I was looking at the various cables and converters.

I am still unclear on what the native video output was on the original models. It seemed like some had RF other had mono (which I didn't know was a thing on a console.) 

As I see it, my options are: if some models output in component I could get another tv and this would save me trouble down the road when I grab a Saturn and Dreamcast. If none have a component out and would require a mod anyway I mine as well go component as with my current tv. 

When it comes to all these different cables it seems like the Genesis model 2 cables will fit into a model r. There are a couple company's that make cables that go from a Genesis model 2 to component like HD Retro and Retro Tink. I still don't understand if you would need an internal mod to make the most of the cables or if the cables do the conversion somehow. 

And on top of all that if there is an internal mod and then like a Genesis 2 to Component or a scart 2 component converter am I going to get a little lag here and a little lag there. 

TL:DR very confused

Edited September 12, 2020 by Californication

[Sumez | 2,995]

There's unlikely to be any lag in any RGB to Component video converters, as no video processing (and thereby no data buffering) is required.

That said, I'd just get an OSSC and skip the middleman. Use RGB outputs with everything.

[TDIRunner | 2,777]

That's actually the first time I've ever seen someone say that the Duo R isn't more durable than the original Duos.  My experience has shown me that the Duo R is much less likely to have capacitor issues or disc drive issues.  Plus the Duo R looks a heck of a lot better than any other PCE model.  

Component video is not originally available on any model, but mods are available.  Mine current outputs component video straight out of the back and it works fine for me.  Unfortunately, I can't tell you what's involved with the mod.  I prefer component simply because it's easier for me to run all of my systems through my switch with component.  

[Californication | 1,490]

https://www.ebay.com/itm/193657536006

This one has a great price, but I talked to the vendor and they said it wasn't recapped because "Duo R/RX model has not equipped SMD capacitor like a duo. So no need to do it unless an emergency." He does have really solid feedback though.

This is one that I made an offer on that I am second guessing.

 https://www.ebay.com/itm/143715886912

I am pretty sure I am going to buy a RGB2COMP which is about $75 and feel like $500 to get the second model running seems high.

Welcome to suggestions.

Edited September 13, 2020 by Californication

[Tulpa | 3,537]

On 9/12/2020 at 8:17 AM, TDIRunner said:

That's actually the first time I've ever seen someone say that the Duo R isn't more durable than the original Duos.  My experience has shown me that the Duo R is much less likely to have capacitor issues or disc drive issues. 

Same here. The Duo Rs are HIGHLY sought after for that reason.

[Californication | 1,490]

On 9/12/2020 at 3:16 AM, Sumez said:

There's unlikely to be any lag in any RGB to Component video converters, as no video processing (and thereby no data buffering) is required.

That said, I'd just get an OSSC and skip the middleman. Use RGB outputs with everything.

I think that the RGB to Component "converter" whether it's a specialized cable or box will still have to double the lines or whatever to make the conversion to the modern tv's. So i probably shouldn't use like a $10 converter. 

I think I will grab a Retrotink RGB2Comp. Then when I get a Dreamcast or Saturn I could run them all to a switcher and run the switcher to the Retrotink to the tv I kind of need a switcher now, but with all this money going out I think I will wait.

[Sumez | 2,995]

14 hours ago, Californication said:

I think that the RGB to Component "converter" whether it's a specialized cable or box will still have to double the lines or whatever to make the conversion to the modern tv's. So i probably shouldn't use like a $10 converter. 

That would be an unnecessary extra step. I was just talking about RGB to component conversion, which are just two different encodings for largely the same type of analog signal. You are talking about upscaling, which you might as well do in the same step as you're going analog-to-digital, if your end goal is modern TVs.

Again, something that takes RGB in, and spits out HDMI is your ideal goal here (and as a bonus, you can use a switch and hook up all your consoles via this, to get the best possible video from them.

Of course, that's where lag is important to consider, even if you don't consider yourself much of a perfectionist it can be pretty bad on most cheap upscalers and will undoubtedly affect performance. Though to my knowledge, the Retrotink products are about as good as OSSC in this regard, so it's a good start.

[toothbrushes | 10]

I assume you don't have interest in the Terra Onion SSD3? 

[phart010 | 1,708]

15 hours ago, toothbrushes said:

I assume you don't have interest in the Terra Onion SSD3? 

Terraonion doesn’t work with the duo systems does it? I thought it only worked with the base card systems. So can’t play physical cd’s with it.

[TDIRunner | 2,777]

55 minutes ago, phart010 said:

Terraonion doesn’t work with the duo systems does it? I thought it only worked with the base card systems. So can’t play physical cd’s with it.

That is correct.  However, it does eliminate the most unreliable part of PCE hardware.  I guess it depends on how important it is to you to play the actual disc.  Keep in mind, we aren't talking about emulation.  We are talking about playing actual disc images on actual hardware.  The only difference is that you won't use the original disc.  

Edited September 24, 2020 by TDIRunner

[toothbrushes | 10]

Correct, doesn't work with the Duo units and obviously cannot play the actual discs.

 

It does, however, still allow for original HuCards to be played and it gives you a RGB mod -- allowing for SCART or the Genesis Retrovision cables.

[Californication | 1,490]

New question: I got my RGB modded PCE Duo R hooked up to a Retrotink outputing to component. The component cables I am using are cheap. When I am playing games sometimes the color completly shifts on the screen and after a while it goes back to normal. I understand that I should buy better quality cables, which I will do. But more importantly I am trying to figure out if this shift if a function of a bad RGB mod, the Retrotink, or the cheap cables. Does anyone know what causes this issue or do I have to test the system and go down my list?

[Koopa64 | 51]

I currently have a Duo-R system that isn't working, can't load cards or the internal CD BIOS. The board had some damaged traces from some sort of liquid damage, could potentially have a bad chip I'm not aware of.

Everyone says the Duo-R and RX are highly desirable and always work, but they can be broken and non-functioning like any other PC Engine or TG16 system. There's YouTube videos about TG16 and SuperGrafx systems with cracked boards, cutting through dozens of traces.

[Tanooki | 4,952]

20 hours ago, Koopa64 said:

I currently have a Duo-R system that isn't working, can't load cards or the internal CD BIOS. The board had some damaged traces from some sort of liquid damage, could potentially have a bad chip I'm not aware of.

Everyone says the Duo-R and RX are highly desirable and always work, but they can be broken and non-functioning like any other PC Engine or TG16 system. There's YouTube videos about TG16 and SuperGrafx systems with cracked boards, cutting through dozens of traces.

Sure it's not capacitor liquid rot?  Mind you it is the Duo-R which is supposedly better than everything before it from NEC but they were king even over Sega for using shitty caps that blow and dribble rot onto the board.  I consider their integrity quite so-called, NEC just didn't do it well with those things at all.

[toothbrushes | 10]

23 hours ago, Californication said:

New question: I got my RGB modded PCE Duo R hooked up to a Retrotink outputing to component. The component cables I am using are cheap. When I am playing games sometimes the color completly shifts on the screen and after a while it goes back to normal. I understand that I should buy better quality cables, which I will do. But more importantly I am trying to figure out if this shift if a function of a bad RGB mod, the Retrotink, or the cheap cables. Does anyone know what causes this issue or do I have to test the system and go down my list?

The most cost effective for now would probably to be try alternate cables. I would start there. Another option would be to reach out to Mike @ Retrotink. From everything that I have seen online, he has excellent service and would more than likely be able to point you in a better direction. 

[Californication | 1,490]

My biggest concern is that there is an issue with the console because there us obviously a limited period I could return it.

[Koopa64 | 51]

21 hours ago, Tanooki said:

Sure it's not capacitor liquid rot?  Mind you it is the Duo-R which is supposedly better than everything before it from NEC but they were king even over Sega for using shitty caps that blow and dribble rot onto the board.  I consider their integrity quite so-called, NEC just didn't do it well with those things at all.

The section of the board with eaten traces isn't near any capacitors, it's by the card slot. The affected area took out some traces between the HuC6270 and HuC6280 chips. Something could have dripped in through the card slot. My point still stands though, Duo-Rs aren't immune to failure.