Collectors and prototypes: have times changed much in your opinion?

[Ankos | 436]

11 hours ago, Tanooki said:

Depending on the type of cart, I've got dumping tools that'll do gb, gbc, gba and it currently has a handle on a multitude of multicart to one off boards and re-writable boards too.  Before I realized it was online I dumped that Sintax Metal Slug clone with it weeks ago.  Anything licensed and unlicensed of the era it can do, and I've not run into a game I can't take a grab from yet.  Writing is hit and miss, read seems to be 100%.  I just hope they add Nintendo Power GB Memory support as I want to update my white cart.

I'm not the most knowledgeable on dumping unlicensed Gameboy stuff, but I know Taizou (who has preserved tons of unlicensed Gameboy stuff) uses a joey joebags for most things, occasionally using a multiboot cable that hooks into the parallel port of the computer

[Tyree_Cooper | 754]

I use GBxCart RW, it's so cheap there's no excuse for not owning one if you have something to "dump".

https://shop.insidegadgets.com/product/gbxcart-rw/

[Tanooki | 4,933]

9 hours ago, Ankos said:

I'm not the most knowledgeable on dumping unlicensed Gameboy stuff, but I know Taizou (who has preserved tons of unlicensed Gameboy stuff) uses a joey joebags for most things, occasionally using a multiboot cable that hooks into the parallel port of the computer

I've been using the GB Operator, haven't had a fail yet on the recent firmware/general software update combination.  Whenever they stop being lazy and push the newest firmware it supposedly adds a boat load of screwball oddball chinese cart makes and models from the re-writable to the one off types many pirates use.

[DeterioratingBrains | 6]

On 4/22/2023 at 1:35 PM, fcgamer said:

Sources? I don't believe that to be true at all.

I will flip the question and pinpoint that prices has been going up for years. It is not because Stadium Events is dumped that it is less sought after.

And in any case, I don't think Earthbound protos has been devalued. I highly doubt the long dumped SMB2 prototype would sell for $350 either, nor Sim City a price below the one both cartridges sold to. Also frankly I can't wrap my head between your stance in this thread and in the other. You do support, or fight against, using collectibles as investment? Is it okay depending of the person doing it?

[fcgamer | 4,723]

56 minutes ago, DeterioratingBrains said:

I will flip the question and pinpoint that prices has been going up for years. It is not because Stadium Events is dumped that it is less sought after.

And in any case, I don't think Earthbound protos has been devalued. I highly doubt the long dumped SMB2 prototype would sell for $350 either, nor Sim City a price below the one both cartridges sold to. Also frankly I can't wrap my head between your stance in this thread and in the other. You do support, or fight against, using collectibles as investment? Is it okay depending of the person doing it?

As a whole, dumping prototypes devalues them; we can cherry-pick a few examples and mention that those items have maintained or increased in value, but for the vast majority of cartridges, this isn't the case. 

Regarding using games as an investment, it is not something for which I am in favor. Similarly though, it's a reality in this hobby. I don't support or fight against things, as I am always doing my own thing. 

[DeterioratingBrains | 6]

2 hours ago, fcgamer said:

As a whole, dumping prototypes devalues them; we can cherry-pick a few examples and mention that those items have maintained or increased in value, but for the vast majority of cartridges, this isn't the case. 

Problem: notable (dumped) prototypes circulates much less than some other video games collectibles.

Let us take a recent example: the Caltron 9-in-1. It was sold around, each time at an increased prices by "investors" until it was dumped by its current owner and remained in the said collection ever since. I am quite positive this has been the case for most prototypes dumped by Forest of Illusions lately. For example, there has been a plethora of 3DS test cartridges located lately, some quite expensive. All dumped by the collectors who bought them and are now keeping them.

I think there's a clear cut between people who are those so-called investors and refuse to dump games and tend to sell the said good after a few years versus actual gamers/collectors that care about what they have in their hands.

Edited April 27, 2023 by DeterioratingBrains

[fcgamer | 4,723]

4 minutes ago, DeterioratingBrains said:

Problem: notable (dumped) prototypes circulates much less than some other video games collectibles.

Let us take a recent example: the Caltron 9-in-1. It was sold around, each time at an increased prices by "investors" until it was dumped by its current owner and remained in the said collection ever since. I am quite positive this has been the case for most prototypes dumped by Forest of Illusions lately. For example, there has been a plethora of 3DS test cartridges located lately, some quite expensive. All dumped by the collectors who bought them and are now keeping them.

I think there's a clear cut between people who are those so-called investors and refuse to dump games vs actual gamers/collectors that care about what they have in their hands.

Disagree. 

Let's look at that Caltron 9-in-1 for example. Although it is a 72-pin NES cartridge, I reached out to the sellers of the cartridge different times when it was on ebay, asking about possible payment schemes of 3-4 months, as I don't personally want to be dropping 2-5K+ on games at the spur of the moment, though provided a few months, I could easily move some stuff and get the money. This cartridge was significant to me, as I primarily collect Taiwanese games and history from that region, and this piece fits there 100%. As it's been dumped though, the ROM is accessible to anyone (if it were released publicly, I haven't checked), but my point is that the game has been preserved, and possibly is accessible to others who have their desires for it (as myself); therefore, there is no need for me to go out of my way to pay that cash to buy it outright anymore. The pool of people who want the item become smaller, as people are now buying the item simply for the physical entity.

On the other hand, if something such as an undumped game comes up, we have a ton of interested parties: preservation groups, collectors, curious gamers, investors, fanboys with big egos and small privates, etc. They are all competing to purchase said item, for different reasons (bragging rights, simple playing rights, $$$, preservation, etc). Of course the cartridge is more desired at this stage. Dumping and releasing it though, satisfies the preservationists, the curious gamers, and also turns the fanboys away, as well as the investors. So in the end, only collectors who want to own the physical artifact are interested in the item. Less demand, lower selling price. 

Furthermore, we shouldn't be equating whether someone is an "actual" collector / gamer or a dirty investor based solely on whether they dump games freely or not. There's a certain pragmatic aspect as well, and charity has its limits. If we all were sitting equal in terms of education, salary, property, etc then maybe we could draw such comparisons, but as long as its an apples versus durian situation, we shouldn't be drawing such bogus conclusions, as charity has its limits sometimes, unfortunately.

[DeterioratingBrains | 6]

I don't believe for a second that, as a collector of physical object, you would care about the fact it is dumped or not. Or you're hiding your investment intentions. You either own something or you don't. If your interest lowers due to some binary existing on the internet, you were not that interested in the first place, weren't you?

Aside, most preservation groups don't pay a penny for a vast majority of the items they get and release. They just offer the service to collectors. The fundraisings are only done for truly one-of-a-kind items and quite often, a collector puts most of the money and the preservation group adds a small help "on the side". I've participated in enough fundings to know exactly the amounts involved.

I shall close this topic by reminding that there are absolutely no evidence that prototypes are devaluated when they are dumped on the collector market, beside your dubious claims plagued by your investment mindset.

 

Oh and I forgot to cover one point. "Turns fans away"… Can we talk about the sheer popularity of reproductions, special releases of unreleased games? What is Earthbound Zero? Star Fox 2? Sim City? Huge Insect? Sonic (2) prototypes?! What's Atari 2600 collecting then? All of the work done by Bock of SMSPower to document and popularise unheard of titles released on Sega systems? I highly doubt it "lowers" the popularity or interest of the said item.

You are out of your mind or making stuff up at this point.

Edited April 27, 2023 by DeterioratingBrains

[fcgamer | 4,723]

37 minutes ago, DeterioratingBrains said:

I don't believe for a second that, as a collector of physical object, you would care about the fact it is dumped or not. Or you're hiding your investment intentions. You either own something or you don't. If your interest lowers due to some binary existing on the internet, you were not that interested in the first place, weren't you?

Actually I agree with you 100% on the bolded bit

[Code Monkey | 2,006]

5 hours ago, DeterioratingBrains said:

I don't believe for a second that, as a collector of physical object, you would care about the fact it is dumped or not. Or you're hiding your investment intentions. You either own something or you don't. If your interest lowers due to some binary existing on the internet, you were not that interested in the first place, weren't you?

Aside, most preservation groups don't pay a penny for a vast majority of the items they get and release. They just offer the service to collectors. The fundraisings are only done for truly one-of-a-kind items and quite often, a collector puts most of the money and the preservation group adds a small help "on the side". I've participated in enough fundings to know exactly the amounts involved.

I shall close this topic by reminding that there are absolutely no evidence that prototypes are devaluated when they are dumped on the collector market, beside your dubious claims plagued by your investment mindset.

 

Oh and I forgot to cover one point. "Turns fans away"… Can we talk about the sheer popularity of reproductions, special releases of unreleased games? What is Earthbound Zero? Star Fox 2? Sim City? Huge Insect? Sonic (2) prototypes?! What's Atari 2600 collecting then? All of the work done by Bock of SMSPower to document and popularise unheard of titles released on Sega systems? I highly doubt it "lowers" the popularity or interest of the said item.

You are out of your mind or making stuff up at this point.

I'm less interested in purchasing prototypes if they're released and I always offer less in that situation.

[Ankos | 436]

It would seem weird to me if a game couldn't command higher prices if it was undumped. Not necessarily because that makes it more collectible though. If you have large preservationist groups that are willing to raise large funds to obtain and preserve the unpreserved, then you increase the competition for that unpreserved game, and more competition means higher prices right?

[Ankos | 436]

I guess that would only apply to stuff big ticket enough to attract that kind of attention though. There is stuff out there that doesn't have quite that much notoriety, but I'd have to imagine those protos just don't command that high of prices (relative to the big ticket ones) in general

[DeterioratingBrains | 6]

1 hour ago, Code Monkey said:

I'm less interested in purchasing prototypes if they're released and I always offer less in that situation.

The other thread made it quite apparent you have that investor mindset and looks clueless on what you're putting your money towards.

Edited April 27, 2023 by DeterioratingBrains

[fcgamer | 4,723]

5 hours ago, DeterioratingBrains said:

The other thread made it quite apparent you have that investor mindset and looks clueless on what you're putting your money towards.

I'm pretty sure just in this thread you made claims that simply aren't true, Code Monkey and I both would pay less for dumped Protos, as well as basically everyone else. 

You also stated this much yourself that the binary existing lowers the interest

[Gloves | 11,776]

Maybe Code Monkey is explicitly interested in collecting unique and undumped ROMs? 

Being interested in collecting a niche item doesn't make anyone a bad person. Heck, having an investor mindset doesn't make someone bad. A massive influx of investors jumping into the hobby has had a negative impact, but to pretend there weren't already people investing in games ahead of Watas formation is ignorant at best. 

Let's stop pointing fingers and trying to lump each other into negative groups. Code Monkey may well just be interested in these from an investment standpoint (I don't believe he is), but even if so hey, at least he's a contributing member of the forum. This is a place for anyone to chat video games and he does that here. 

What we don't need is people who solely pop in here to point and jeer at others. 

[Tyree_Cooper | 754]

i have a harmony of dissonance rom in a gba proto board and the seller told me it was the final japanese code (though the japanese reprint may have had bugfixes and therefore a different code)

the friendly price i paid was no doubt due to it being the final code, also it was maybe just a board with the internet rom flashed on it

i will never know, and sometimes i wake up in the middle of the night, i look at my hands, and wonder what i have done

[fcgamer | 4,723]

@DeterioratingBrains : I don't know what other handles you might use, but I'm going to throw something out there for you to think about, not trying to be mean, but something that might be useful to reflect upon.

I'd reckon that attitudes such as the one you've shown in this thread turn people away from the long-term goals you're trying to reach regarding dumping of games, preservation, or whatever. It's akin to a preacher shouting in a random guy's face as the person walks by, about the person going to hell and being evil, whilst knowing nothing about that person, his, her or their story, his, her or their life, etc. It's just going to turn people off from listening, maybe even from religion (or in our case, dumping games).

 

[Code Monkey | 2,006]

9 hours ago, DeterioratingBrains said:

The other thread made it quite apparent you have that investor mindset and looks clueless on what you're putting your money towards.

I would have to sell things in order to be an investor. I've been collecting 13 years and I can't remember ever having sold anything.

[DeterioratingBrains | 6]

5 hours ago, fcgamer said:

I'm pretty sure just in this thread you made claims that simply aren't true, Code Monkey and I both would pay less for dumped Protos, as well as basically everyone else. 

You also stated this much yourself that the binary existing lowers the interest

Except that, as shown previously with examples, the market hasn't shown this trend at all. Two people swiping their panties at each other doesn't make a market trend 

3 hours ago, fcgamer said:

I'd reckon that attitudes such as the one you've shown in this thread turn people away from the long-term goals you're trying to reach regarding dumping of games, preservation, or whatever. It's akin to a preacher shouting in a random guy's face as the person walks by, about the person going to hell and being evil, whilst knowing nothing about that person, his, her or their story, his, her or their life, etc. It's just going to turn people off from listening, maybe even from religion (or in our case, dumping games).

The person itself, their life, their story, anything, should never justify endangering actual historical artifacts. In fact, it is illegal in most countries to do so or take such risk. But I guess none of you really value the games you spend so much money at? /thread

Edited April 28, 2023 by DeterioratingBrains

[fcgamer | 4,723]

54 minutes ago, DeterioratingBrains said:

Except that, as shown previously with examples, the market hasn't shown this trend at all. Two people swiping their panties at each other doesn't make a market trend 

The person itself, their life, their story, anything, should never justify endangering actual historical artifacts. In fact, it is illegal in most countries to do so or take such risk. But I guess none of you really value the games you spend so much money at? /thread

Wait, wut? Isn't it illegal to dump and distribute ROMs of other people's IP, which oftentimes was supposed to be returned to the company or destroyed anyways?

[DeterioratingBrains | 6]

You missed the point entirely.

[fcgamer | 4,723]

38 minutes ago, DeterioratingBrains said:

You missed the point entirely.

No, I am just asking for clarification as to how one can reconcile these points:

2 hours ago, DeterioratingBrains said:

The person itself, their life, their story, anything, should never justify endangering actual historical artifacts.

This is a bit of an extreme approach. If you're in a fiery car crash on the highway, en route to your home with a sack of prototypes you just picked up to dump and preserve, you want the emergency services to grab the sack of games before trying to rescue you? Don't be ridiculous, we don't live in a black and white world. and every situation is different.

2 hours ago, DeterioratingBrains said:

...should never justify endangering actual historical artifacts. In fact, it is illegal in most countries to do so or take such risk. 

This is the point that you missed, when telling me that I missed the point. You are saying that I have to commit an illegal act to copy game data illegally, or else I am breaking some "historical artifact" law of yours. Such a situation is dubious at best.

2 hours ago, DeterioratingBrains said:

But I guess none of you really value the games you spend so much money at? /thread

Honestly DeterioratingBrains, it sounds like you are just jealous of people that own game prototypes. This conversation sounds very familiar to conversations people had fifteen or twenty years ago, where they'd complain at Katieholmes76 for owning and not publicly releasing ROM dumps. 

There's always this weird idea that just because someone owns a game prototype or forty that they are somehow rich, or that threw a tonne (ton?) of cash at someone to make the purchase. Again, it's a huge misconception, one where you miss the mark completely.

[Moondog | 19]

The problem always seems to begin when someone who has a desirable prototype wants to show it off. This triggers certain individuals to get mad because they feel that it should be made public now that they are aware of it's existence. Btw, if anyone owns Resident Evil 0 for the N64, it's about time it was dumped ya know

[DeterioratingBrains | 6]

1 hour ago, fcgamer said:

Honestly DeterioratingBrains, it sounds like you are just jealous of people that own game prototypes.

"lmao"
Had you read and understood my messages, it should have been obvious that:

• I do not give a damn about the ROM being public or not. As I have made it clear previously.
• I simply value the existence of digital copies, whatever they are public or kept private in a few hands. As I have stated in a previous message too.

So I would kindly ask you to stop assuming that I may be jealous, or whatever. You are creating the missconceptions here.

 

Edited April 28, 2023 by DeterioratingBrains

[Tanooki | 4,933]

Just stop feeding that troll dave, sheesh...  Anything you do or say will get twisted around to keep playing word games.  Set ignore if needed and be done.