When is a variant its own game?

[phart010 | 1,708]

15 hours ago, FenrirZero said:

- Final Fantasy VII and Final Fantasy VII (Greatest Hits) are variants.
- Final Fantasy VII (NA) and Final Fantasy VII International (JPN) are versions.

I think of greatest hits as a version. On PS2 especially since they add significant new content to some greatest hits versions

[T-Pac | 7,585]

It might help to consider how you'd instinctively describe each game to someone outside of the hobby.

Punch-Out!!
"It's the same as Mike Tyson's Punch-Out!!, but without Mike Tyson's likeness."
=same game

Probotector
"It's the same as Contra, but with robot characters instead of humans."
=same game

Power Blade
"It's based on Power Blazer, but with different gameplay and graphics."
=different game

-CasualCart

[fcgamer | 4,753]

Different title screen or different publisher= different game. Different id code sometimes=different game.

[guitarzombie | 927]

I always thought it had to have some significant changes to be a 'different' game.  Sure Stadium Events is Bandai and World Class Track Meet is Nintendo, different publishers and title screens, but it isn't that significant which to me, I always think of it as a variant.  Bonks Adventure by Hudson Soft on GB and by Electro Brain.  Im pretty sure they have different titles screens, they may not have different product codes, but they're variants, so how is SE that much of a 'different' game.  At this point its just semantics.

[YOURTURN | 1,256]

8 hours ago, phart010 said:

I think of greatest hits as a version. On PS2 especially since they add significant new content to some greatest hits versions

Those types of releases are both a version and a variant. At least that is what Google says. It is both the original version, but also adds something to make it its own version. Which is why I should have gone with both Final Fantasy VII Remake and Final Fantasy VII Remake Intergrade. With how the DLC gives the PS5 release a "its own game" vibe. 

With me wishing I was not too tired when I wrote my original response. 

[Tulpa | 3,534]

12 hours ago, guitarzombie said:

At this point its just semantics.

Well, I think it's more opinions on what people want to collect. Which I guess is semantics in our circle.

Most would probably just get one of the two Metroids unless they specifically collect variants, but I suspect "full" licensed set collectors are after both SE and WCTM (and probably got SMB/DH/WCTM as well), or they refer to their licensed set as "676 -SE" or some such.

677 games, which includes both SE and WCTM, was the generally agreed upon number by most I've seen, but I consider it mainly a guideline rather than a hard line "YOU MUST HAVE THESE GAMES TO HAVE A FULL LICENSED SET!" type of deal. The whole argument over what constitutes "the set" rages on and on, so to make the hobby enjoyable, I don't think we should take a huge immovable stance on what "the set" is.

Dr. Morbis brought up a good point in that Untouchables has both different artwork and different title screens, which means that there should be 678 games in "The licensed set."

I dunno, all the quirks of Famicom/NES collecting make it more interesting to me than most other consoles.

Edited January 30, 2023 by Tulpa

[guitarzombie | 927]

36 minutes ago, Tulpa said:

677 games, which includes both SE and WCTM, was the generally agreed upon number by most I've seen, but I consider it mainly a guideline rather than a hard line "YOU MUST HAVE THESE GAMES TO HAVE A FULL LICENSED SET!" type of deal. The whole argument over what constitutes "the set" rages on and on, so to make the hobby enjoyable, I don't think we should take a huge immovable stance on what "the set" is.

Dr. Morbis brought up a good point in that Untouchables has both different artwork and different title screens, which means that there should be 678 games in "The licensed set."

I dunno, all the quirks of Famicom/NES collecting make it more interesting to me than most other consoles.

Thats true.  Thats why I've always joked about SE being a WCTM variant, but if it was classified as that, the price (at least back then) I think would have dropped significantly since it 'didnt count'. 

I didn't know about Untouchables having a different title screen, but the meat of the game is still the same, so I think it would still be a bit too far.  Let people collect what they want to, but a lot of people have really odd opinions on here that they feel like should be fact, and I think thats really off putting.

[Code Monkey | 2,012]

I've decided to go with the different codes provided by Nintendo to be the defining factor and Batman: Return Of The Joker may just be an exception or error variant. If Nintendo themselves issued a separate code for the game, then it's a different game.

[Friendsfa35 | 35]

On 1/28/2023 at 7:17 AM, Code Monkey said:

I'm curious how different a game needs to be in order to no longer be a variant. What exactly is the requirement?

 

Possibility 1 - the code on the cartridge is different

NO!

as for the PAL region that would mean you'd need like 50 copies of each game, as we have FRA, EEC, HOL, NOE, FRG, GPS, SCN, UKV, ITA, AUS, ESP, GBR, etc, etc, etc.......

 

Possibility 2 - the artwork is different

NO!

this would be the same game, but with alternate artwork,
for example in Europe we have Adventures in the Magic Kingdom with the normal castle label, but also the SCN code version with a very colorful label with Mickey, Donald and Goofy on the front

 

Possibility 3 - the title is different

Indiana Jones And The Last Crusade on NES was released by Taito and Ubisoft but this isn't just a label change, they're 2 completely different games. How can they be variants if they're completely different

they are NOT variants, they are 2 different games, made by 2 different companies.

 

Possibility 4 - the license code is different

I'm talking about the code that appears on the inside box flap, front of the manual and front label of the cartridge. These are provided by Nintendo for each different game that applies for a license. If this is the requirement then what about games that had a change to this code? Batman: Return Of The Joker on NES made a mistake in their code and initially the boxes were printed with NES-48-USA but later changed to the correct NES-P48-USA.

still the same game

Possibility 5 - all of the above

What about games that were different between regions like Contra and Probotector? Alex DeMeo's Race America and Corvette ZR1 Challenge? Kiwi Kraze and The New Zealand Story?

imo they are not variants, but their own games, as clearly something has been changed, the sprites, the labels, the titles, etc....

All of this leads into my main question about World Class Track Meet and Stadium Events. Are they different games?

yes, they are different games

Because of which specific requirement? What's the rule? Or is Stadium Events just a variant?

Stadium Events came first, WCTM is the variant, but as per what i said above, this would be it's own game, otherwise everyone who is going for a complete loose collection would already be done by getting WCTM, and completely ignoring Stadium Events.