Dumars2001

Hmm, all this Bronty and Dain talk has got me thinking about the sale of NA, The Carolina Collection and Bronty's sale of his Super Mario Bros. I know that there won't be any tears shed here for Bronty selling his grail Super Mario Bros for a "mere $100,000" (heck, a late print white seal super mario bros just sold for $102,000) to the Heritage people and then it selling for $2,000,000 a couple weeks ago or Dain selling his Carolina Collection for literally pennies on the dollar back in 2018, compared to what his games would sell for these days. I just went to Heritage Auctions and looked up the Carolina Collection and those ending prices were basically "nothing," compared to current prices. Today, he could have sold just one of his games from his collection and got the total amount he received from Jeff and the boys back in 2018. His collection is today's market would be worth millions. I don't know about you guys, but they probably think about this and feel the sting pretty badly every day, when they see these un-godly final sale prices for some of their games today. I am still kicking myself for selling my near mint condition first print Genesis Sonic the Hedgehog for $400 ( I bought it for $200 and sold it for $400, so I doubled my return, lol) a few years back. I see that it is already at $144,000 ( I hope it doesn't hit a million, lol) on Goldin Auctions, so I couldn't imagine what they must be thinking about their respective past sales.

Well, I guess the controversy didn't stop this WATA 9.4 late print (white seal) Nes Super Mario Bros from selling for $102,000 in Heritage's Weekly Auction today. Sometimes any publicity (including bad) can apparently be beneficial. SOLD ON AUG 31, 2021 FOR: $102,000.00 Super Mario Bros. - Wata 9.4 A Sealed [Oval SOQ R, Later Production], NES Nintendo 1985 USA.... https://comics.ha.com/itm/video-games/nintendo/super-mario-bros-wata-94-a-sealed-oval-soq-r-later-production-nes-nintendo-1985-usa/a/312135-70043.s?type=bidnotice-tracked-endofauction#

Well, I was just browsing the current sealed video game auctions for all platforms and completed auctions for sealed raw, WATA games and VGA games post Karl Jobst video and it seems like you are correct. Prices are still ending very high but just not 6 and 7 figure amounts (although, I must also note, I don't think there has ever been a six figure ending price for a game on Ebay), like on Heritage Auctions, which I must say is understandable, because most high end collectors/sellers would rather not deal with the worry of buying/selling an extremely high end item on Ebay. We still need to see how things will turn out in the long run (post Jobst video) but it appears as if everything is still "normal" with the video game craze/mania.

Yes, I didn't think of your point of view, but it does make a lot of sense.

WATA (severely back-logged with submissions) and Heritage Auctions (abundance of games being sent in to be auctioned + 30% total commission of sold price) had a really good thing/gold mine going for them when sealed games were going for 5 figures and should have been very satisfied with that. BUT, they finally got too greedy and we started to see (allegedly manipulating) games ending at 6 figures and 7 figures. The $1,560,000 SMB 64 in my opinion was their final nail in the coffin for them. That sale raised too many eyebrows, questions and had people turning over every (Karl Jobst/others) stone they could, to get to the bottom of things and make sure that these were in fact legit sales. I am sure WATA and Hertitage wish they could have a do-over, but it appears to be too late for them with many people/collectors at this point. They both (my humble opinion) have lost a lot of credibility going forward and I think it will take them a long time to gain back the trust in people/collectors. The first thing they both could do, is have their top (Deniz, Jim, Jeff, etc.) people come out and say something on the record/show some kind of proof to refute the allegations against them ASAP. WATA should announce that they are going to release a population report ASAP (like today) and Heritage Auctions should announce that they are going to accept any legit grading company (VGA/CGC in the future) into their auctions, effective immediately. It is kind of like getting away with a crime once or maybe even multiple times and not stopping, because you get over confident/complacent/unsatisfied, because..... Eventually you are going to get caught and in this case, it looks like WATA and Heritage Auctions has finally been exposed. Just my 2 cents on the whole ordeal and I want to add that all the accusations look credible to me at this point, but I will still say these are alleged allegations against Wata Games/Heritage Auctions and if they are proven to be untrue by them, I will be the first to apologize to them and admit that I made a mistake.

I wonder what the people that cosigned to sell their WATA graded games in Heritage's Weekly/Signature Auctions are thinking right now?! Also for sellers of games in the up-coming Goldin Auctions? I know that I wouldn't be feeling too confident, if I had games being sold in the next few auctions, but I could be wrong and prices stay high. (or maybe Heritage makes sure that the games sell for a high amount by bidding them up themselves, assuming all the allegations are in fact true) I can't wait to see where the final sold prices on some of these supposed "grail games" end up at in these big up-coming auctions. It will speak volumes to where the market truly is at for sealed games and just how much manipulation went on behind the scenes.

This assessment is so on the money!

Jeff Meyer's statement below is really huge for me and if it really goes down (and others from WATA or Heritage House start to address the situation more openly and with more transparency, then we can start to get to the bottom of some of these serious allegations in the Karl Jobst video and possibly put away some of our pitchforks. Jeff Meyer issued VGC the following statement: “No one at GoCollect, myself included, was consulted on any of this content. The allegations against me and GoCollect are untrue. I was never employed by Wata. I held a board position because I was a late stage investor in the company. I resigned from my board position in January 2020. I would welcome a live stream interview with @karljobstgaming”

Okay, I was unaware of this. My bad. I won't hesitate to say it, when I am clearly wrong or uninformed on something. I should have done more research on this.

Ah, Gotcha and agree with you! I should have done more research on this, before posting it here. I didn't know about this guy.

Edit: Incorrect information was in this article. https://www.nintendolife.com/news/2021/08/possible_retro_game_grading_inconsistencies_come_to_light_following_fraud_allegations?fbclid=IwAR3ovMpKGFH8GpU0bM1Wzf_zPVNxCY1oTflokVZQ-u9zfM1Wn5rou79OTrs Jeff Meyer issued VGC the following statement: “No one at GoCollect, myself included, was consulted on any of this content. The allegations against me and GoCollect are untrue. I was never employed by Wata. I held a board position because I was a late stage investor in the company. I resigned from my board position in January 2020. I would welcome a live stream interview with @karljobstgaming”

A raw Nes (later print) Super Mario Bros sold for $15,600. Talk about bad timing for the seller. I wonder if this would have went higher, if "The WATA" video didn't drop yesterday?! https://www.ebay.com/itm/185003818850?hash=item2b13163f62%3Ag%3AK7QAAOSwzeVhHF2r&nma=true&si=mdOX%2BnMVPOWLIXF1d8vkNA2fV34%3D&orig_cvip=true&nordt=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

A Nes WATA Wall Street Kid 9.6 sold for $4,000. I remember that game could be bought sealed for like $50 bucks for so many years. https://www.ebay.com/itm/265186821958?epid=56210694&hash=item3dbe5dc746%3Ag%3AHWgAAOSwtu5gvCfe&nma=true&si=mdOX%2BnMVPOWLIXF1d8vkNA2fV34%3D&orig_cvip=true&nordt=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

Like I have already mentioned yesterday in this thread, watching that Karl Jobst video was a real eye opener for me and there is more likely some shenanigans/artificial things happening in the videogame hobby (it is a high probability, but no one can be 100% sure, especially because the video only showed one side of the coin, maybe he tried reaching out to WATA/Heritage/ETC for their take but they didn't want to talk), but I also have collected sports cards and action figures and everything in both of those hobbies have also went up in price, especially sports cards, which have absolutely skyrocketed (even more than videogames) since covid started, (I am a also a member of some sportscard forums and they also talk about the market is being manipulated, PWCC shill bids, Goldin Auctions is a shady auction house, Gary Vee pumped and dumped the hobby, etc.) so we are not the only hobby that has seen this sudden explosion in prices. I know that video games are a much newer main stream hobby, but record sales seem to be happening in every hobby at the moment. I guess, we all will have to sit back and see how things shake out going forward. I do sincerely feel that prices would have gone up substantially on their own without this whole WATA/Heritage Auction situation (because comic book collectors were already starting to come in the hobby around 2017 pushing up prices, even before WATA came onto the scene) going on currently but I am also pretty convinced prices wouldn't be where (again, no one knows 100% what is really going on, call me naive, if you want to) they are now without some manipulating happening behind the scenes and if sales were more transparent. Just my humble opinion.

I have to say that Jonebone has been one of the most respected members of the video game community that dates all the way back to the very start of NA and I can tell you that he won't hesitate to call a spade a spade. There have been so many instances that I would post a sealed game that sold for a very high amount (that Jone owns) in the, "Look at these prices....unreal right?" topic and Jone would quickly say that it shouldn't have sold for that amount or that he was surprised that it fetched that amount, the game isn't worth near that amount, etc. Another example of Jonebone's true character is when I made a topic called "The one that got away" and he said that his biggest selling/trading regret was trading his perfect conditioned Sqoon box, instead of saying something like selling his sealed Snes VGA 85 first print Super Mario World a few years back when they weren't as valuable as they are now. I know most of us, probably wouldn't have hesitated to say that game, instead of a rare Nes box. So I know for a fact that he has no alternate agenda other than giving his honest opinion on what is going on in the hobby and with the high end sales on Ebay, Heritage, CertifiedLink, etc. Jonebone is a true asset to our community and we are lucky to have him here on this forum.

I have to agree with this assessment 100%. In other collectible hobbies, like in card collecting (Jordan, Curry, Bird, Mantle, etc.), comic collecting (Spiderman, Wolverine, Hulk, etc.), action figures collecting (Darth Vader, Luke Skywalker, Snake Eyes, He-man, Megatron, etc.) and now with video games (Mario, Pokemon, Link, Sonic, popular movie titles, comic character games with the influx of comic collectors and now we are starting to see popular sports stars' games becoming popular, with the influx of card collectors into the hobby.) I am not surprised at all to see this exact same trend happen in video game collecting too. Now that video game collecting has so many new people in the hobby, is a more main stream hobby and has become a more established hobby like the ones mentioned above, it was inevitable for the collecting trend (to reverse itself) of what games the majority of collectors would want in their collections.

Looks like PWCC is now trying to sell the record breaking Super Mario Bros for "only" $200,000 more.

Awesome investigative video! Once again, I am right back to square one with my thinking on the video game market. It now seems like it clearly has all been manipulated, so I won't be buying that brand new Porsche Turbo that I always wanted after all! There is no doubt that there are many new people/collectors in the hobby now (card collectors, comic collectors, etc. coming into the hobby) because of the buzz WATA and Heritage Auctions has generated over the past couple of years, so I don't think everything is just going to become worthless (Certifiedlink has had a lot of games sell for a high amount, but of course nothing close to Heritage), but we should start seeing prices drop and come back to Earth (I think), sooner rather than later now! The strange irony is that VGA graded games might be more credible/valuable now than WATA graded games. A lot of us always thought that VGA graded games tougher than WATA.

Wow! This is more than likely over a million dollar (or multiple millions, depending on the grade of the Snes Super Mario World & N64 Super Mario 64) set of games in today's market!

I will 100% agree with this. A few years ago, I bought a sealed Nes Snake's Revenge from a seller in Canada and he shipped it the States via Fedex. I was horrified when I opened it. The seal was broken and US Customs left me a nice little note inside the box that said, inspected by US Customs. I know that it is rare for this to happen, but I am living proof that it can and does happen. I would strongly recommend not shipping the game over the border and figure out another way to get your very valuable game into America.

Ha, thanks for changing that for me:).

That was a solid bid and I honestly thought it would end around $2,000 (so you should have won it, lol), but we are in a crazy world of video game collecting these days!

This raw copy CIB of Nes Super Mario Bros (4th print) sold for a whopping $6,600. https://www.ebay.com/itm/234115080432?epid=5803&hash=item368258a0f0%3Ag%3A9eoAAOSwawJhAEqW&nma=true&si=mdOX%2BnMVPOWLIXF1d8vkNA2fV34%3D&orig_cvip=true&nordt=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

Very well said! Thank you and good luck with your up-coming auction.