Silent Hill

Finally some sense in here with articles to back up points. You make an interesting point. I do think he will get charged with something. Just not murder. Some unlawful gun related charge, sure, I could see that. I do wonder like you said, does having a gun illegally make your act of self defense (if they do determine it to be that in court) null and void? I don't think it does. He could've been dual wielding modified ARs and it'd probably still be self defense if his life was in danger and one of those guys pulled a gun on him. **The legality of the weapon doesn't negate how he acted to save his own life** Key point here^^ - Whether he was legally allowed to carry or not, it doesn't preclude him from his right to defend himself.

Why are you the only one on this forum who gets it? I can only speculate, but the best I have is that I'm not so blinded by political affiliation and personal hatred for Trump that I don't let someone's political beliefs impact my ability to acknowledge evidence objectively. No doubt it my mind that if the roles were reversed here (e.g. BLM Protester being chased down by armed Proud Boys, Trumpers, etc.), a lot of folks would be signing a different tune, and agreeing with the self-defense claim. Clear sign of the shit-show that politics have caused this year, and how it affects people's reactions and ability to think critically.

He's not? Source? I haven't seen a source confirming the most damning claim, which is clearly being a white nationalist murderer. Supporting Trump/Police seems accurate at this point, but has no bearing on the situation. It's only being referenced to further paint him in a negative light since it's so trendy to hate Trump and Police nowadays, and most MSM love promoting the angle of supporting Trump/Police = evil/racist. I can't see a connection between supporting Trump/Police and acting in self-defense. I wouldn't be surprised if some of these MSM outlets get slammed like CNN did with Sandmann, assuming he's cleared of murder charges.

100%

I agree. Anyone shot by a cop that It shouldn’t have been, whether black or white should have the attention brought to it, and supported by their community. and this kid is getting praised by the right wing media ecosystem-trump already supported him! Trump taking sides shows why he is not helping the situation. as for why the Portland mayor wants Trump out, I don’t blame them one bit. He’s just gonna be followed along by his little sheep to hang on his every word and try to stir shit up like those guys in that damn motorcade. He does absolutely nothing to try and lighten the situation. @Rhino If you wanna talk with the adults bring a coherent point. Nobody is taking you serious. Sure right-wing media acknowledges self-defense, most going as far to call him a hero as he defended his life against violent criminals. The left-wing media (which seems to be spread throughout most popular MSM) are denying self-defense and painting this kid as a Trump supporting, Cop supporting, white nationalist murderer. No surprise that the views are apart here, but what is surprising is how far they're apart. We have extremely strong video evidence of self-defense, but folks aren't even acknowledging it and falling back to "well, he shouldn't have been there". No shit. For Portland, it's not like Trump will show up with his "sheep" behind him to destroy Portland. Portland needs no help from Trump and his "sheep" to destroy itself. They're refusing military aid to help deter crime/violence, but apparently it's just not worth helping your own city because Trump is a piece of shit.

You're right, nothing you can say will change the video evidence which is what I base my comments on.

And he never would have been in harms way in the first place if his dumb-ass hadn't been there in the first place as an idiot kid with a firearm he had no business being in possession of. Irrespective of any successful self defense claim, I wouldn't be surprised if there could be successful civil suit over the negligence of both his parents and his friend's (who supplied the rifle) parents, since ultimately they should be responsible for their minor children. And the people who were shot would have not been in harms way had they not violently chased him and forced his reaction. Even if the second group hadn't chased him after the first shooting, they would be fine and the kid would have just ran to the police, like he ended up doing after the second shooting. (don't forget the survivor was an idiot felon with a firearm he had no business being in possession of) The bottom line is he was out there (whether you agree with it or not), and was chased/attacked to the point where his life was threatened. I highly doubt the murder charge sticks because "he shouldn't have been out there". Nobody should have been out there. Not an armed 17 y.o attempting to protect property, and not armed criminals attempting to destroy property, then chasing and attempting to kill a kid. But they were, and this is how it unfolded.

Thats the thing though. Republicans only condem it because its “Democratic” cities. No prominent democrats actually approve of criminal activity, Its just another right wing talking point not based in reality. Nothing about the white nationalist agitators. The boogaloo boyz. All the other poor, impressionable men that fall easy prey to white grievance. Kids get shot at school, or another black man shot its just “thoughts and prayers”. But that 17 year old already has 250k from a christian go fund me. Democrats approve of the criminal activity when they refuse aid to help curb the crime. Even the Mayor of Portland said that Trump can "stay the hell out", because he clearly has Portland under control... Is Portland being overrun by white nationalists or the boogaloo boyz? How much has George Floyd or Jacob Blake raised through GoFundMe? Today, "another black man shot" = idolized and well-funded by donations if they're shot by a white cop. Much more than "thoughts and prayers". Unfortunately, the other 99% of black men who are shot are only acknowledged through "thoughts and prayers". Didn't GoFundMe pull the kid's listing? Can't act like this kid is getting praised by the masses when a vast majority of MSM are referring to him as a murderer, racist, white supremacist, etc. He's getting pummeled by the loudmouth social media crowd as well.

He would have been killed had he not shot them. The people trying to stop him weren't just "close", they were attempting great bodily harm/death. Self-defense. End of story. I can play this game. Let's say he wasn't defending himself and just murdered someone, unprovoked. Why did he stop? Why did he call someone? Why didn't he start shooting other people? Also, your NBC video leaves out a potentially crucial detail. Watch this around the 4 second mark. First guy is chasing him and someone says "that's Antifa man - ooh, he got a gun baby". Seems to be speaking about the guy giving chase as you can see him stop shortly after throwing an object and extend his arm like he's aiming something (and he wouldn't be calling the teen Antifa). You then hear one shot (assuming from his weapon since he wasn't hit then) as he continues to chase for 3 more seconds before getting shot 4 times and falling to the ground. Appears that he was armed, shot at the teen, then was shot 4 times when he caught up. In the event he didn't have a gun, he was aggressive in an earlier video screaming "shoot me n****", gave chase while screaming "F*** you", and got close enough to reach his weapon when shot.

It really doesn't. With all of the mass casualty shooting in this country when something like that happens people have to make snap decisions. These people tried to stop him because they knew he killed someone. He could have put the gun down at any point, but he chose not to. He chose to point the gun at anyone in his way and then shot two people who tried to stop him. He put himself in a situation by bringing that assualt rifle out there and he wasn't capable of dealing with situation. Was it a month ago those pro-second amendment black people were protesting with guns and someone shot a couple of them. They didn't all turn in one direction and start firing their weapons. Those black protestors knew the situation they put themselves in by protesting because they were mature enough to handle the situation Honestly, what do you think would have happened if he stopped and set his gun down? Again, your point is that he was being chased by good samaritans who were stopping a murderer, which isn't the case. So your point really does still rely on the first shooting being a murder. You're just making stuff up now. Show me where we chose to "point the gun at anyone in his way". Acting like this kid was on a rampage. Are we even watching the same footage? As much as he put himself in that situation, the ones who were shot put themselves in that same situation, and he dealt with the situation pretty well. He's still alive. That wouldn't be the case if he had been unarmed like you suggest. Look at the first shooting that you're stating was a murder and justified him being hunted. Was he being chased because he was armed? Why was he fleeing since he was armed? If he hadn't been armed, what do you think would have happened when they caught up to him? I'm confused by the last part. Are you implying that a couple of those people were shot and they didn't return fire because of their high level of maturity? What was the maturity level of the folks chasing him? Maturity level of the armed felon? Maturity level of the guy who tried to crack his skull with a skateboard? What would a mature person do when being chased by an armed felon and someone wielding a skateboard as a weapon? (Also, send me a link to that case if you wouldn't mind. Haven't heard about it)

I agree as well, and that's why I believe this case was self-defense. From what facts are out, it's clear he was protecting himself. He definitely knew there was a potential for violence while he was down there, thus why he was armed. Just like the armed people on the other side of the situation. One side intended to protect the community, and the other intended to destroy it. They clashed and it escalated to violence. But he was not the instigator, and attempted to flee before being put in a life or death situation, so it resulted in self-defense. I didn't vote in 2016 and I don't particularly care for Trump. He's clearly made some idiotic remarks (some truly idiotic, and others taken out of context), but I personally expected that from him. He's brash as hell, and not a smooth-talking, long-standing politician. If he were, he'd fly more under the radar like past Presidents. Shit, he'd be in much better shape if he just never used Twitter. I don't think he deserves quite as much hatred as he receives, and I don't think his universally good policies are recognized. People want him out by any means necessary, and it's clear how far some are willing to go to make it happen. For better or worse. There seems to be some comfort in getting a traditional long-standing, smooth-talking politician back into office, though I wouldn't classify Joe Biden as "smooth-talking". This election is incredibly tough since both parties have clear issues, but it seems that the continued riots/crime in major Democratic cities aren't doing Biden/Harris any favors. The line between protests and riots is very blurred and it's causing people to choose the party who most openly opposes the criminal activity. The vilification of Law Enforcement doesn't seem to be helping the Democrats either. And I appreciate you saying that. Nothing personal to anyone, just my thoughts and discussion points on situations.

Like there being good people on both sides of a white nationalist rally? Remember that? Protestors are being run over by racists. I feel super bad that that patriot prayer guy got killed- take it how you want. I'll take it as honest as his death was completely unjustified. Just like protesters who get run over outside the realm of self-defense. You are doing everything you can to make that little shit head seem like a hero (and a victim?) he was in the street with a Fucking assault rifle. This is Trumps America. Remember how he said he was going to stop American Carnage? This is it, right here. And all Trump supporters can do is refer to an American Senator as “legs up Kamala” (your words) and talk about how the Country would be ruined if Biden was President. I don't think he's a hero, he's just not a murderer. I'm sure I said "Heels up Harris", and it's apparent why she received that nickname. Glad you can see my distaste for Trump. He is absolute cancer, and the reason we are here in the first place. 100% his fault, 17 yr olds are shooting people in the street. Because they feel emboldened by his rhetoric. He is stirring this garbage up, by defending confederate monuments, instead of calming the nation. Calling his supporters patriots, while demonizing all BLM protestors as looters and rioters. Pretty wild line to draw. By that logic, none of the shootings, arson, looting, etc. have been done by non-Trump supporters? Democratic leaders refuse aid because of their personal hatred of Trump, and we've seen how that's been going for their cities. You know damn well you could write a perfect script for Trump to "calm the nation", and those blinded by pure hatred of him won't absorb the message. The vast majority of rioters/looters/criminals are not Trump supporters, just like the guy who straight murdered the Patriot Prayer guy. They wouldn't give two shits what Trump says or does. (And you're still implying that this kid wasn't acting in self-defense, and just started shooting people in the name of Trump, which is borderline tin foil material.) Crazy how none of this happened while Obama was president. BLM was formed while Obama was in office, and there were plenty of riots and downstream effects from them, including what's going on today. He definitely had a hand in fueling the racial divide. I'm open to be reminded of what Obama did to ease racial tension with regards to police brutality, and how Trump dismantled it.

Your entire point hinges on the first shooting being a murder, which doesn't seem to be the case.

Just noticed this and I really hope you're being sarcastic. Supporting cold-blooded murder, especially based on opposing political affiliation/beliefs, is abhorrent.

Worked for me! Been with eBay since 2007. Was able to get a solid deal for 2 of the last 9 games I needed for the full US Dreamcast set.

I just enjoy the twisting of logic you are using to justify This Kid shooting people with an Ar-15. You do realize laws still apply to people right? Just because Trump whips racists into a frenzy over make believe antifa conspiracy lords, doesnt mean you can run around in the street with assault rifles shooting people who are protesting. “Asking” someone to come defend property doesnt give them the right to start shooting people. Just like these other Trump fans that drove a motor cade through portland shooting protestors with pepper spray balls. Fucking Pathetic Trump doesnt have the balls to tell his brainwashed sheep to stay the fuck away. Instead he would rather stir white grievance up to help his failing campaign. Man, you're falling apart here. - Where did I twist logic? - Where's your proof that he was a racist whipped into a frenzy by Trump, which caused him to run around the streets shooting (white) people who were protesting? Where's the proof that they were even protesters? - Where's the connection between being asked to defend property by the owner, and then shooting people in self-defense of your own life? (not the property) - Where's the connection between Trump fans in Portland shooting people with paintballs/pepper spray and this scenario? And why don't you seem to care that folks on the other side were also throwing objects? - Why are you bringing up Trump at all? I wish he did have the "balls" do tell his supporters to stay away so their communities can get demolished by criminals who receive no recourse for their action. The leaders of these communities are refusing aid, so who really wants the community to be destroyed? Your replies are all over the place, irrelevant to the actual topic of discussion, and reek of pure Trump hatred so great that you can't even tolerate video evidence on this topic. Bonkers.

That's a good question for him to answer. Maybe he was just planning to run up and high-five him with gun in hand? /s While you're at it, ask him why he was out there and illegally armed as a felon. I'm curious. From a deleted Twitter post, a friend of the guy shot in the arm said that "his only regret was not killing the kid". So it seems like he was slow on the trigger and paid for it. Luckily not with his life. https://twitter.com/VitoGesualdi/status/1299414048971395078/photo/2

Hiring a 17 yr old cross State lines to defend property with an assault rifle? Sounds legit. Don't think he was "hired". Again, irrelevant since he didn't discharge his weapon in defense of property. (For what, the third time now?) Crossing state lines is not relevant either as it was only ~20 miles, the kid worked in the city (and had worked earlier that day), and the gun didn't cross.

Homeboy was there to be a good little Trumper and pop some antifa liberals. What property of his was he there defending again? According to what we know, he was asked to defend a few properties on behalf of the owner, and decided to do so. The group committing the damage escalated the situation against him since he was trying to extinguish a fire that was started. Also a shot was fired (not from his weapon) while he was being chased. That was the first shooting. The second/third shooting is even more clear-cut self-defense. The self-defense claim isn't against the property, it's against himself, so it's irrelevant, yet it keeps being referenced.

The guy with the pistol was defending himself Too, is what it looks like to me. We will see! Double post

Tough to claim defense when you're rushing someone who's on the ground with pistol in hand (illegally as well, since the shooter's legal ability to carry is in such question) after chasing them down. (you know, instead of fleeing)

Solid rebuttal.

I believe there is an additional section that either negates or clouds the "hunting" stipulation, but we'll see how it plays out. Again, even if he shouldn't have had the weapon, it doesn't override the self-defense claim, and definitely doesn't automate a murder charge. I agree that it was no place for a 17 y.o. and that his parents are more than questionable. That said, we're talking months away from being 18, so I don't think it's incredibly relevant. Lastly, why do people keep harping on him coming from another state? It's like a 20 min drive and he works in Kenosha. Most people commute farther than that for work every day. It's irrelevant.

Listen to his Lawyer, the gun never traveled across state lines, and the WI law covers a 17 y.o. for that type of gun, so he was legally carrying. (unlike the felon who he shot in the arm) Even if that weren't the case, it doesn't result in murder charges. Going to be hard to claim that the people he shot were defending themselves as they were chasing him, with clear intent to do great harm/kill. He had just as much of a right to be in Kenosha as anyone else (the three people he shot apparently traveled further than he did to Kenosha, if it matters to you), and he was armed because obviously other people were. Why would you not be armed in that environment? You may say that being armed shows intent to kill, but it shows intent to defend one's self just as much, even more so in this scenario where he only discharged in self-defense.