fcgamer | 4,742 Posted January 8, 2022 Share Posted January 8, 2022 On 1/7/2022 at 2:38 PM, Dr. Morbis said: The rabbit hole actually goes a little deeper than that. The "real" NES version has NES related material (images and text) all over the box: front, back and sides, but it must've sold better than expected, because the majority of supposed NES Miracle Piano boxes out there are actually the generic/original PC box with a sticker slapped on the front of the box to signify that it is for the NES. I don't know how many times an NES collector has told me he has a boxed/CIB NES Miracle Piano over the years, only to see that it's really just the PC conversion with the NES sticker on the front. The real NES Miracle Piano box is actually a bit of a pain to track down, especially in good condition... You're right, the rabbit hole does go a bit deeper, but not in the way that you are suggesting. Show me the proof you have for the bolded part of your claims. The claim you laid down could be the reality of the matter, but it also might not be. An equally plausible scenario would be that the generic boxes were made first, as a means of getting the product out there to meet deadlines, as quickly as possible. Or in a slightly different scenario, the generic box was created to cut on costs, and only after seeing demand for the other versions were console-specific boxes created. Before drawing conclusions, it'd be best to examine all of the boxes for a better picture (a quick search even showed a German box that had listed NES / PC in print in the corner). Furthermore, it appears that the keyboards aren't exactly the same, as a quick image search shows that some keyboards appear to have a Nintendo seal of approval printed on them...are my eyes playing tricks on me? With that bit out of the way, let's get down to one final point. It doesn't matter if some boxes are generic + stickers, and others were dedicated for one machine: These are both equally valid / true NES Miracle Piano boxes, made by the company. Of course we all prefer the box that was specifically printed, rather than the "generic" box, but the item was obviously sold in both, so both are equally as "real", yea it sucks for you buddy, keeping it real, gotta get both if you are trying to collect variants... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Morbis | 2,091 Posted January 8, 2022 Share Posted January 8, 2022 (edited) 7 hours ago, fcgamer said: You're right, the rabbit hole does go a bit deeper, but not in the way that you are suggesting. Show me the proof you have for the bolded part of your claims. The claim you laid down could be the reality of the matter, but it also might not be. An equally plausible scenario would be that the generic boxes were made first, as a means of getting the product out there to meet deadlines, as quickly as possible. Or in a slightly different scenario, the generic box was created to cut on costs, and only after seeing demand for the other versions were console-specific boxes created. Before drawing conclusions, it'd be best to examine all of the boxes for a better picture (a quick search even showed a German box that had listed NES / PC in print in the corner). I agree that there is no way of truly knowing which version was first without finding someone who worked at the company back in the day, however, logic would dictate that the real NES version was first before the PC conversion with a sticker: think about it, if you started with the slapped on sticker version and it was selling like gangbusters, why would you feel the need to put all the expense in to making a custom version after the fact when you already have a winner? Furthermore, it seems more realistic to me that they got NOA's approval and manufactured the product, but just underestimated demand and ran out of supply and so the sticker was a stop-gap solution. As a Canadian I can tell you that the NES consoles and games sold by our Canadian distributer, Mattel, used the same solution when they were short on stock: rather than risking lost sales and profit, they would just stick Mattel stickers on US Console boxes and send them to the stores if they were short on supply. 7 hours ago, fcgamer said: It doesn't matter if some boxes are generic + stickers, and others were dedicated for one machine: These are both equally valid / true NES Miracle Piano boxes, made by the company. It may not matter to you, and it may not matter to other collectors, but it makes all the difference in the world to me, to the point that I don't personally consider the conversion part of the NES set since it's just a sticker slapped on a different product with a cart and a cable thrown in. I've looked in my friend's boxed copy, and even the manual was just the PC manual. Also, yes the real NES Miracle Piano has a Nintendo Seal of Quality on the actual Piano itself, and is therefore, in my mind, the only true NES Miracle Piano. The reason I know that the NES version is far rarer - at least in my area - is because I tried to buy a Miracle Piano locally for years, and every time I actually saw it (in person or in pictures) it was always the PC conversion. I was trying to avoid paying the behemoth shipping price but I finally realized that if I ever wanted a real NES Miracle Piano, I was going to have to bite the bullet and have one shipped to me. Give me a couple of minutes and I'll take some pics of the real one with my shitty digital camera. As for the conversion, it's super common so you can find pics of it all over the internet. I don't want to get in a big argument with you Dave, because we both know how discussions between us always end up going, but I will post up some pics and that will be it for me... Edited January 8, 2022 by Dr. Morbis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Morbis | 2,091 Posted January 8, 2022 Share Posted January 8, 2022 (edited) Okay here are some pictures below; sorry for the less than stellar image quality. Note that all NES references (like the Seal) are printed right on the box - not stickers, and most importantly, the text on the back (if you can read the text, sorry again for the quality) references the NES and video games in general literally throughout. Also note the clearly visible Nintendo Seal on the piano itself visible on the front of the box. And once again, for pictures of the PC conversion with the NES sticker, just search the net; it's all over the place... Edited January 8, 2022 by Dr. Morbis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Morbis | 2,091 Posted January 8, 2022 Share Posted January 8, 2022 Okay, here's the text on the back so you can actually read it: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fcgamer | 4,742 Posted January 9, 2022 Share Posted January 9, 2022 @Dr. Morbis: It's fun and games to push your personal opinions and feelings on the collecting community, but whether you like it or not, the sticker marks the product as official, and in other cases, not a sticker, yet still reused parts. This goes far beyond you getting off on pictures of teenage fcgamer with a Game Axe 1. What's the difference between a North American and a European SMS Sonic? A sticker. 2. How about the Sega Mega Drive stuff for the Asian region? A mix of spare NTSC / PAL parts, a sticker slapped on, etc etc 3. Initial BIC carts on Famicom (i.e. Codemasters games on Famicom): housed in Camerica NES boxes. Only later did clamshell versions arrive on scene. 4. NES in the Middle East?? Mere stickers... 5. NES in South Africa? Mere stickers... 6. Famicom / SFC / N64 in Taiwan? Aside from a very few localized releases...mere stickers! It's become quite clear that stickers have been used (and accepted by the community) as a way of designating items, such as being from Middle East region, or Taiwan region, or South African region, or whatever. Similarly, it has been demonstrated that boxes have been repurposed for different regions, via the BIC / Camerica instance (actually Camerica did this too, and surely others have as well). So while the Miracle Piano with NES screenshots / NES verbiage is indeed an official NES Miracle Piano set, similary, whether you like it or not, the "generic" Miracle Piano BOX with a STICKER dedicating it for the NES, is ALSO an official NES MIracle Piano set. To put it in simpler terms: If you truly are trying to get all the stuff, get both sets, don't be a cheap @ss! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fcgamer | 4,742 Posted January 9, 2022 Share Posted January 9, 2022 18 hours ago, Dr. Morbis said: The reason I know that the NES version is far rarer - at least in my area - is because I tried to buy a Miracle Piano locally for years, and every time I actually saw it (in person or in pictures) it was always the PC conversion. I was trying to avoid paying the behemoth shipping price but I finally realized that if I ever wanted a real NES Miracle Piano, I was going to have to bite the bullet and have one shipped to me. Probably the version with the dedicated box was USA ONLY, and the other one was when we offloaded surplus to Canada. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fcgamer | 4,742 Posted January 9, 2022 Share Posted January 9, 2022 18 hours ago, Dr. Morbis said: I agree that there is no way of truly knowing which version was first without finding someone who worked at the company back in the day, however, logic would dictate that the real NES version was first before the PC conversion with a sticker: think about it, if you started with the slapped on sticker version and it was selling like gangbusters, why would you feel the need to put all the expense in to making a custom version after the fact when you already have a winner? No, logic doesn't dictate that the "real" NES version came first. It becomes a complicated matter - what was the company's budget? Did they see the project as high risk? Were they just a start up, scraping by on a shoestring budget? (Maybe Mindscape itself wasn't, but perhaps little budget was given to the NES department?) As a business owner myself (www.nihaosnacks.com , send me a PM before you place your order and I'll give you 10% off), both scenarios have logical explanations behind them. As said earlier, BIC went from reusing extras to making their own non-generics, yet Sega reused. 18 hours ago, Dr. Morbis said: Furthermore, it seems more realistic to me that they got NOA's approval and manufactured the product, but just underestimated demand and ran out of supply and so the sticker was a stop-gap solution. Read above, both are equally valid possibilities, and both have happened before in the gaming world, whether large company or small. 18 hours ago, Dr. Morbis said: As a Canadian I can tell you that the NES consoles and games sold by our Canadian distributer, Mattel, used the same solution when they were short on stock: rather than risking lost sales and profit, they would just stick Mattel stickers on US Console boxes and send them to the stores if they were short on supply. Since the NES-dedicated box hasn't really appeared in Canada, yet the other has, perhaps the NES-dedicated box was only for USA region? 18 hours ago, Dr. Morbis said: It may not matter to you, and it may not matter to other collectors, but it makes all the difference in the world to me, to the point that I don't personally consider the conversion part of the NES set since it's just a sticker slapped on a different product with a cart and a cable thrown in. Oh, you totally misread / twisted my words there. My point was that both are equally as valid official versions. While I agree that if someone were to collect one set, the dedicated box with dedicated manual is much more desirable, this doesn't change the fact that the company took generic boxes, printed off a sticker (to market as a NES version), threw a NES cartridge in the box, and then sold it as a NES version. These weren't done by a random online or what not, these were done under company orders - therefore, these are also official NES versions, equally as "REAL" as the ones with the NES box. 18 hours ago, Dr. Morbis said: I've looked in my friend's boxed copy, and even the manual was just the PC manual. Also, yes the real NES Miracle Piano has a Nintendo Seal of Quality on the actual Piano itself, and is therefore, in my mind, the only true NES Miracle Piano. Well considering the company assembled the other sets as NES sets, I don't think you have much ground to stand on here buddy. Both sets are equally as real NES Miracle Pianos. 18 hours ago, Dr. Morbis said: The reason I know that the NES version is far rarer - at least in my area - is because I tried to buy a Miracle Piano locally for years, and every time I actually saw it (in person or in pictures) it was always the PC conversion. I was trying to avoid paying the behemoth shipping price but I finally realized that if I ever wanted a real NES Miracle Piano, I was going to have to bite the bullet and have one shipped to me. Yup, perhaps Canada didn't get that one. 18 hours ago, Dr. Morbis said: Give me a couple of minutes and I'll take some pics of the real one with my shitty digital camera. As for the conversion, it's super common so you can find pics of it all over the internet. I don't want to get in a big argument with you Dave, It's been a boring weekend, and Mondays particularly suck, schedule wise. Give me something exciting to wake up to Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Morbis | 2,091 Posted January 9, 2022 Share Posted January 9, 2022 (edited) 3 hours ago, fcgamer said: It's been a boring weekend, and Mondays particularly suck, schedule wise. Give me something exciting to wake up to You'll get no argument here from me; I already told you: I'm done. Edited January 9, 2022 by Dr. Morbis 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fcgamer | 4,742 Posted January 9, 2022 Share Posted January 9, 2022 4 minutes ago, Dr. Morbis said: You'll get no argument here from me; I already told you: I'm done. It's hard to argue why the sticker NES miracle pianos don't count or are less "real", if they were done at company level. Preferences, for sure, I totally agree and if I were to buy one only would do the same as you; however real or not, yeah, actually it's a legitimate version as the company did it. Someone trying to get the whole enchilada like yourself, best get both sets... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
killerkobra | 268 Posted January 12, 2022 Share Posted January 12, 2022 On 1/3/2022 at 12:39 AM, Dr. Morbis said: Every NES retail game came in a box. Miracle Piano came in a box; SMB/DH came in a box, the other combo carts as well... it's just a matter of where do you want to draw the line? Does the box have to be of standard dimensions? If so, what if it's slightly bigger (Carmen Sandiego, Stack UP) or maybe twice as big (Arkanoid, Dizzy the Adventurer)? This is one of the attributes that always bugged me about the NA database: it had a big "no box" symbol for Miracle Piano that you couldn't change... and it's like a wtf for me... wadda ya mean, no box?!?! I've seen Miracle Piano for sale CIB a thousand times! Same with SMB/DH, it has a box: if you want it CIB, get the Action Set... This is a very interesting take on this topic. I never thought of it that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darkchylde28 | 1,546 Posted January 12, 2022 Share Posted January 12, 2022 34 minutes ago, killerkobra said: This is a very interesting take on this topic. I never thought of it that way. Some of us still don't. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
killerkobra | 268 Posted January 12, 2022 Share Posted January 12, 2022 5 minutes ago, darkchylde28 said: Some of us still don't. It is "out of the box" thinking man! 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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