This wouldn't count as new would it?

[NES.God | 2]

Hong Kong Super Mario Bros.

I don't think this release was ever shrinkwrapped. But this has definitely been opened right?

[inasuma | 1,203]

If you ever see that ink break along the edge, it's almost certainly been opened. Sometimes games are opened in the factory and then re-wrapped for distribution (a thread is open in this sub-forum about it), but if there's no seal or wrap, then at this point it's just a fancy CIB.  

Edited December 20, 2021 by inasuma

[GPX | 1,370]

3 hours ago, inasuma said:

If you ever see that ink break along the edge, it's almost certainly been opened. Sometimes games are opened in the factory and then re-wrapped for distribution (a thread is open in this sub-forum about it), but if there's no seal or wrap, then at this point it's just a fancy CIB.  

What you’re saying is not representative of a game that was never sealed in the first place.

I agree it does appear to be opened. However, an opened game can still have brand new contents on the inside. Here’s my sub-categories for games which never came sealed:

- new, unopened

- new, opened (might have been checked by someone at the original factory, a store seller, or a buyer)

- opened, used.

 

[inasuma | 1,203]

1 hour ago, GPX said:

What you’re saying is not representative of a game that was never sealed in the first place.

I agree it does appear to be opened. However, an opened game can still have brand new contents on the inside. Here’s my sub-categories for games which never came sealed:

- new, unopened

- new, opened (might have been checked by someone at the original factory, a store seller, or a buyer)

- opened, used.

 

I don’t disagree with you. But OP asked if the box had been opened. The answer is yes. lol

edit: but in more specific terms, yeah the contents can be new, but the box is still opened. I use the term open box as new is no longer fully accurate.

Edited December 20, 2021 by inasuma

[fcgamer | 4,724]

On 12/20/2021 at 1:02 PM, inasuma said:

I don’t disagree with you. But OP asked if the box had been opened. The answer is yes. lol

edit: but in more specific terms, yeah the contents can be new, but the box is still opened. I use the term open box as new is no longer fully accurate.

Disagree 1000% . Opened and new are totally different things.

[YOURTURN | 1,256]

Hong Kong?

Even if it was opened, it is still new. I used to follow a Transformers fan/collector that goes by the name Heroic Decepticon, and he lives in Hong Kong. Both he and others will point out that sellers over there will open a sealed product as a means to verify everything is there.

Which is more than likely the case with this. Because unless the factory itself opened it just to do a QC, the dealer who received their shipment did. Which still makes it new because the contents are unused.

[Tyree_Cooper | 755]

if a game came sealed and someone tore off the seal, to me it doesn't matter whether the box was opened once or never at all. it's not new anymore. if i had to sell such an item i would list it as LIKE NEW.

if a game didn't come sealed, like this hong kong version super mario bros., if it's been opened and it clearly has in this case, same story, i would list it as LIKE NEW, and since it's been opened, i would take out the contents and show them for the prospective buyer to see clearly. as well as take photos of all angles of the box to make sure the buyer sees all the damage there is (or isn't).

there's no way i would buy something like this without seeing the insides. box is opened, trust is gone.

[fcgamer | 4,724]

10 hours ago, Tyree_Cooper said:

if a game came sealed and someone tore off the seal, to me it doesn't matter whether the box was opened once or never at all. it's not new anymore. if i had to sell such an item i would list it as LIKE NEW.

if a game didn't come sealed, like this hong kong version super mario bros., if it's been opened and it clearly has in this case, same story, i would list it as LIKE NEW, and since it's been opened, i would take out the contents and show them for the prospective buyer to see clearly. as well as take photos of all angles of the box to make sure the buyer sees all the damage there is (or isn't).

there's no way i would buy something like this without seeing the insides. box is opened, trust is gone.

That's a foolish idiot's way of viewing things; new = unused, period. Prove me wrong by looking up some dictionary definitions and pasting them here.  If the game is unsealed to start and just opened to examine contents, it was not used, its new. You buy from shop, its new. Wata and all that bullshit get a hard on over fake shit.

[fcgamer | 4,724]

Rarity does not equal value.

New does not equal mint.

Edit: Sorry, that was incredibly harsh and against the spirit of the site

Edited December 29, 2021 by fcgamer

[Tyree_Cooper | 755]

Huh, what's your problem? I'm just giving my view on how I consider items that can't be proven to be really unopened and/or unused, and it's fine if you don't agree. I can open his brand new Super Mario Bros. using gloves and a lot of care, play the cartridge a few times, and put everything back exactly the way it was. Then I'm going to sell it as brand new, since the box was just opened by "someone at the factory" or by "the shop guy who just wanted to show me all the contents since he doesn't accept returns and refunds".

I'm not going to consider it new. Feel free to consider it any way you like with the help of your extended knowledge of the English dictionary. If possible without insults next time.

[JamesRobot | 5,800]

New?  That shits more than 30 years old.  It's fucking ancient!

[fcgamer | 4,724]

13 hours ago, fcgamer said:

Rarity does not equal value.

New does not equal mint.

Edit: That was a bit overly antagonist and unfriendly, I'm sorry for that. 

[fcgamer | 4,724]

5 hours ago, Tyree_Cooper said:

Huh, what's your problem? I'm just giving my view on how I consider items that can't be proven to be really unopened and/or unused, and it's fine if you don't agree. I can open his brand new Super Mario Bros. using gloves and a lot of care, play the cartridge a few times, and put everything back exactly the way it was. Then I'm going to sell it as brand new, since the box was just opened by "someone at the factory" or by "the shop guy who just wanted to show me all the contents since he doesn't accept returns and refunds".

I'm not going to consider it new. Feel free to consider it any way you like with the help of your extended knowledge of the English dictionary. If possible without insults next time.

Sorry for being a bit antagonist with that post, @Tyree_Cooper .

I just get frustrated sometimes, it seems like these questions always come up.

To demonstrate where I am coming from with the concept of "new" : If you order a new book off of Amazon, and it arrives in the mail damaged, it's still new.

Or if I make NES carts for a new game, yet reuse cart shells and boards, would the games count as new or used? If they are to be considered used, then it would be impossible for any if that new game to exist in new condition, and that surely doesn't seem correct.

[YOURTURN | 1,256]

@Tyree_Cooper, have you considered how antagonistic your own words would sound if they were used to get a better deal? I am not trying to be confrontational, but I also have seen sellers be treated poorly by those who have a similar opinion to your own. Thankfully not in Japan.

To be honest, it is easier for you to say "I don't buy unsealed games that are not listed as 'Like New'." Simply because you are literally telling us why you will not buy them as new or brand new. Just like how history has shown that not all Wata grades are not accurate, and not all VGA graded games are legitimate.

In all cases, there are three types of new.:

Brand New = Straight out of the shipping box, with no guarantee that it will be both unbroken and complete.

New = Guaranteed to be unused, even if the seller opened the box to make sure everything is both complete and undamaged.

Like New = The product was either tested or refurbished, with no other signs that it was used.

In all cases I will not argue that it is easier to feel like a sealed product is an unused product. But I also have done enough business to know that your type of reasons have insulted a lot of sellers who sell old stock like this. Just like many both here, and elsewhere, have reported cases where they got ripped off just because the seal looked legitimate.

Either way, consider myself neutral in a case like this. But also know that you should carefully consider the idea your own belief system is capable of rubbing legitimate sellers the wrong way. 

[Tyree_Cooper | 755]

21 minutes ago, FenrirZero said:

@Tyree_Cooper, have you considered how antagonistic your own words would sound if they were used to get a better deal? I am not trying to be confrontational, but I also have seen sellers be treated poorly by those who have a similar opinion to your own. Thankfully not in Japan.

To be honest, it is easier for you to say "I don't buy unsealed games that are not listed as 'Like New'." Simply because you are literally telling us why you will not buy them as new or brand new. Just like how history has shown that not all Wata grades are not accurate, and not all VGA graded games are legitimate.

have you considered how antagonistic it sounds when someone tells you to jump off a bridge for not agreeing with you on a cardboard box that has a line on it? lol

I never said that I will not buy them as new or brand new. i said i would not buy without seeing the contents. It's a completely different statement. but i guess that's what you wanted to read from me. And I can add that if the price is good enough, I would probably buy if I value the empty box alone to be worth the price.

This is less and less the case, but historically, Japanese sellers tend to exaggerate damages and defects on what they sell, even listing as junk items that are close to mint, just because the CD case is scratched and the disc has a single tiny scratch. This is based on my 15+ years of buying from Japan. im not even sure what your point is. i'm not treating anyone poorly, im just stating it's been opened and i want to see contents before dropping 500$ on it, coz im not taking the seller's word that everything's included and new.

i'm not trying to make up definitions. just said that if i can't prove it hasn't been touched/used, i can't consider it new. again feel free to disagree. based on your definitions, I could pass a "like new" as "new" without nobody being able to figure it out.

whew, guys, did i strike a nerve here? keep buying and selling brand new unsealed games, i ain't going to stop you... and if you don't like the fact that i dont think like you, well too bad eh.

[fcgamer | 4,724]

28 minutes ago, Tyree_Cooper said:

have you considered how antagonistic it sounds when someone tells you to jump off a bridge for not agreeing with you on a cardboard box that has a line on it? lol

I never said that I will not buy them as new or brand new. i said i would not buy without seeing the contents. It's a completely different statement. but i guess that's what you wanted to read from me. And I can add that if the price is good enough, I would probably buy if I value the empty box alone to be worth the price.

This is less and less the case, but historically, Japanese sellers tend to exaggerate damages and defects on what they sell, even listing as junk items that are close to mint, just because the CD case is scratched and the disc has a single tiny scratch. This is based on my 15+ years of buying from Japan. im not even sure what your point is. i'm not treating anyone poorly, im just stating it's been opened and i want to see contents before dropping 500$ on it, coz im not taking the seller's word that everything's included and new.

i'm not trying to make up definitions. just said that if i can't prove it hasn't been touched/used, i can't consider it new. again feel free to disagree. based on your definitions, I could pass a "like new" as "new" without nobody being able to figure it out.

whew, guys, did i strike a nerve here? keep buying and selling brand new unsealed games, i ain't going to stop you... and if you don't like the fact that i dont think like you, well too bad eh.

Again, sorry about being a bit over-the-top in my earlier post. It wasn't necessary on my part, so I won't try to justify it.

That being said, I think it's a bit disappointing in your original post where you mentioned the following:

"box is opened, trust is gone."

Living in Asia yourself, you've surely bought tons of new old stock from shops. So have I. Similarly, as I mentioned in a different post, items can be new and get damaged in shipping, be new and damaged at the factory, etc.

Condition doesn't have anything to do with whether an item is new or not; @FenrirZero nails it in his post, with which I fully agree.

#NewDoesNotEquateToCondition

[Tyree_Cooper | 755]

it's exactly because i've been here for so long that "box is opened, trust is gone". if it's not factory sealed and if the box shows that it's been opened before, i want to see what's inside. unless it's free or 1 usd, i guess. absolutely anything is possible with an unsealed game being sold as new around here and again, i'm ok with you guys not agreeing. keep buying and selling the way you did before jumping at me in this thread. the sun will settle tonight too

Edited December 29, 2021 by Tyree_Cooper

[YOURTURN | 1,256]

3 hours ago, Tyree_Cooper said:

have you considered how antagonistic it sounds when someone tells you to jump off a bridge for not agreeing with you on a cardboard box that has a line on it? lol

I hate to say it but you saying this does not help your case. 

Atop of that, the word 'not' is conditional. So yes, you have confirmed that you will not buy a non-sealed game if any of your conditions cannot be met. 

Then again, the whole argument is more about the risk of buying a non-sealed game that has a color break on the flap... And very much less on what defines as new, etc. 

Edited December 29, 2021 by FenrirZero

[fcgamer | 4,724]

1 hour ago, Tyree_Cooper said:

it's exactly because i've been here for so long that "box is opened, trust is gone". if it's not factory sealed and if the box shows that it's been opened before, i want to see what's inside. unless it's free or 1 usd, i guess. absolutely anything is possible with an unsealed game being sold as new around here and again, i'm ok with you guys not agreeing. keep buying and selling the way you did before jumping at me in this thread. the sun will settle tonight too

Well let's take a look at things in a logical manner. 

You mention things being touched or not as part of being new:

"i'm not trying to make up definitions. just said that if i can't prove it hasn't been touched/used, i can't consider it new."

Whether something is touched or not is irrelevant to whether something is new or not. If you go to a bookstore and purchase a book, they are being sold as new. Obviously, the books have all been touched by human hands, and similarly, it is more than likely that at some point a potential buyer had thumbed through the book, perhaps even reading a bit, before setting it back on the shelf, deciding not to make the purchase. I just bought a new book tonight, and surely the scenario outlined above quite possibly occurred.

Furthermore, for games and items that were not shrinkwrapped, the outer boxes would all have been touched by human hands. Japanese games, console boxes, etc. Why do they get a pass for retaining the state of "new", if touched, yet a game cartridge doesn't? Can't be making exceptions willy-nilly, right?

While I do understand the points you are trying to make, the idea that something being new equates to something being mint is bollocks. 

New items are generally in better condition than old items, due to new items often having been in existence for less time, therefore less chance for deterioration, yet it isn't a given and shouldn't be taken or considered as one.

[Tyree_Cooper | 755]

that's not how it works in japanese shops - not only brand new unsealed games are always wrapped in a plastic bag, but used games and even loose games are. if you want to know the condition, it's usually detailed on a label, and they may or may not open the box for you at the cashier, when you have decided to buy.

it's ok dave... we all know you got tons of "brand new" games i would not consider brand new. my opinion won't affect their value. don't worry about me, i'm just a grain of sand in the beach.

i get the point that it can be new and look like shit. my basic point was that as a seller i would be extra careful toward potential buyers, since i find it to be more respectful. just like those japanese sellers who undervalue the condition to avoid issues and to lower buyer's expectation. they're actually pushing prices down, when they could be getting more bids and attention.

Edited December 30, 2021 by Tyree_Cooper

[fcgamer | 4,724]

2 hours ago, Tyree_Cooper said:

it's ok dave... we all know you got tons of "brand new" games i would not consider brand new. my opinion won't affect their value. don't worry about me, i'm just a grain of sand in the beach.

Oh I wouldn't necessarily claim them to be "brand new", that would be straight out of the fire so-to-speak.

I am the last person to care about prices and values, we all know that too.

I'm just stating that new has nothing to do with being touched by human hands or not, same with being opened in the case of what we are discussing here.

This is a misconception that needs to end. It has nothing to do with being respectful to buyers / sellers or not, either.

[Tyree_Cooper | 755]

 i want to say sorry to the OP for dragging his poor thread out in the open sea

Edited December 30, 2021 by Tyree_Cooper

[YOURTURN | 1,256]

10 hours ago, Tyree_Cooper said:

just like those japanese sellers who undervalue the condition to avoid issues and to lower buyer's expectation. they're actually pushing prices down, when they could be getting more bids and attention.

Citation please. Not because I have done a LOT of business with said stores, nor the link (below) that also discusses this type of topic. But rather because I am wondering where you got that idea. 

LINK: https://www.e-aidem.com/ch/jimocoro/entry/tatsui06

[Tyree_Cooper | 755]

i'm talking about yahoo japan auctions, and the hundreds of games and soundtracks i browse and sometimes buy, where a small scratch on the cd case is described like the item came out of a landfill or is to be considered junk. i mentioned bids, so obviously nothing to do with hardoffs and bookoffs.

what am i supposed to get from the link? the guy tried to buy as much as possible from local stores, ok, and he found bargains sometimes, ok, and stuff he couldn't find in local shops he found on yahoo mercari fril etc., very nice

so yeah the idea has been around for a while, ever since i had an account on yahoo japan auctions in 2005. gotta move to mercari as it's stealing a good part of the show now.

[GPX | 1,370]

@Tyree_Cooper, @fcgamer, @FenrirZero

Guys you are talking about 2 separate issues:

1. Can an opened box (which was never originally sealed) have brand new, unused contents?

Yes, absolutely! Sometimes, things are checked to ensure contents are new before listing them as “brand new”. Without checking, sometimes not always easy to know, particularly when passed through several chains of purchases. 

2. Just because a box appears “new” doesn’t mean the insides are the same condition or are unused. As a buyer, I’d  likely insist of confirmation of old retail stock, or I would prefer to see photos of the insides (this is Tyree’s point). 

—————

Tying it all together, in the OP’s example the answer is still not confirmed unless the OP is sure 100% the game is old retail stock, or he might need to check the insides to see if the contents have been used or unused.