Looking for advice on expanding career options, specifically is it worth getting certifications from external bodies

[LeatherRebel5150 | 1,056]

I'm finally nearing the end of my return to college and am preparing to graduate in December. I've been looking for jobs but getting that first position is proving to be a real bitch. Something I often see listed on job listings is for the applicant to have various certifications. One that pops up often is Lean certifications. Ive read some stuff on it before and it's basically a technique/method to running a business or process as efficiently as possible. Which after reading fairly in depth about the "methods," it seemed like common sense stuff to me that I have suggested to various jobs myself just based on basic observation. So I don't believe it would be something extremely difficult for me to obtain a certification in. I guess something like the Six Sigma Green Belt or something. But is it really worth it? Does anyone hear have a certification like it? Who/what institute is the preferred place to get it from? I've heard ASQ but I would like some confirmation on that. 

Any advice is greatly appreciated.

[Brickman | 3,983]

What is your job field you’re looking to get into?

[Californication | 1,477]

Depends on your field. I got treated way dif. once I got the biggest part of my certification out of the way.

[Jeevan | 8,910]

honestly, imo, being six sigma or lean certified is a waste of time.  BUT...if it is necessary in your job field, then you might look into it.  I wouldn't waste my time with it because it kind of goes by the wayside when you get into your career anyway.  I work in a factory and we all make fun of the six sigma nerds because they don't do the job.  we do!  our methods are a lot more efficient than theirs are.  That being said, I work in manufacturing and for at least the last 2 or 3 years we have not even had a manager over that specific part of our management team.

[Jeevan | 8,910]

Forgot to mention, I do work for a fortune 500 company with 4.1 billion dollars in assets last reported in 2015.......so, we have added more machines and expanded our building just this last year and continuing still to add more. 

[RH | 4,903]

I hate to just walk in and not help but talk about the issue anyway but... I kept hearing about "six sigma" being advertised on the radio and I even heard pop culture references into it, so I decided to research it.  Wow, it's actually... a long standing corporate culture mindset that has a lot of science going against their techniques.  I mainly looked into the office management side of it and though a lot of HUGE businesses look for Six Sigma qualified managers and such, the actual practices are old, out dated and many psychological studies have proven that approaches like Six Sigmas work against human productivity.

But, there's nothing wrong with learning or getting certified in those areas just to get a job.  If you can get the certs, get the job and then work into a place of influence, maybe you can try to make minor changes that will improve employee moral and productivity by both knowing the standard, but also being well versed in it's deficiencies.  But, that doesn't help today.

What field are you in?  I know that in the IT world, most certificates are trash with very few exceptions.  It  can help, for instance, to have Microsoft certifications.  There's probably some company out their that's noticeable for Linux administration but mostly beyond that, a certification is traditionally useless.

[Daniel_Doyce | 470]

I have a couple certifications, but they are directly and pretty uniquely tied to my profession, and earned them over a few years while working in my field.

I agree with RH for the most part on this. Lean Six Sigma and the freaking belts were huge back in the early 2010s, but I haven't heard anyone talk about it in 4-5 years now. Maybe it's still relevant in the factory setting. "Agile" is the latest garbage concept that asshats think is the Next Big Thing. Paying for a generic certification like Six Sigma or PMP isn't going to get you any advantage on getting your first job.

If you don't mind sharing what field you're looking to get into, that would get you some more specific guidance from others.

 

 

[LeatherRebel5150 | 1,056]

Thanks for the replies everyone. My degree is in Electronics Engineering. It's not full blown electrical engineering, I'm not skilled/learned enough to be designing stuff on a components level or diving into the exact saturation points of a transistor. I'm realistically looking to get into a manufacturing and production setting. There are tons of places local to me but pretty much every job listing has either these certs listed or "must have 3,5,10 yrs etc experience" 

[Daniel_Doyce | 470]

Don't put too much stock into the 3 year requirement. Apply and include a nice cover letter and see what happens. Almost every job post lists "requirements" that are more desired than required. With a legit engineering degree and lots of opportunities around your area, you should get some hits.

[RH | 4,903]

A couple of other suggestions.  Not sure if they will work.  Try to spotlight any personal fun projects you've might have worked on in college or even in your free time.  You are new to this as a profession, so showing interest is a plus.  It shows motivation to learn and succeed, and not just the desire to start a job.

Don't write off small companies that are in your area of expertise. Getting your first gig can be difficult.  I had a software engineering degree and I moved home to a town with very little software engineering.  I was 4 months out of graduation and at that time (this was 2004) I couldn't get a job.  Anywhere.  Even McDonald's and Wal-Mart wouldn't hire me because they knew I'd be out the door as soon as I got a professional job.  It sucked, even though I hit the pavement every day for months, cold calling or hitting job boards.

Well, a friend of a friend of a friend heard I couldn't get work.  He was a plant manager at a boat factory and offered to give me work on the plant floor as a favor to the guy he knew plus he heard I was a good kid and a hard work.  Here's the point I'm getting at, though I was hired to screw light fixtures onto the front of pontoon boats, I walked into HR and I told the manager I had a software engineering degree and if they ever had any work that was related to come up in the office, I'd appreciate it if they kept me in mind. He then introduced me to the corporate controller and in 3 months, they pulled me off the shop floor and I became there "database admin", which was a stretch because it was an Access database.

This story might sound sad but here's the thing, 6 months after that I got my "real" job.  I dissected that DB and started using real tools built on top of it and that experience carried me into my first position.  I never considered trying to step into my actual profession, but it worked for me.  What I can recommend is that you be open to any opportunity that might let you angle yourself into a department that is specific to your field. Yes, we all want to land a gig directly related to what we dream of doing but that's often not realistic.  See if you can find a good company, get your foot in the door and just network within there until they throw you something close to your area of expertise.  Once you get that opportunity, it should be easier to move to better positions, just don't expect it over night.

Of course, you could find a job right away in entry-level electrical engineering right away, and I definitely think you should continue to search for those opportunities.  Regardless, I think it's also worth strategizing a less direct approach.  Sometimes you just need to get your foot in the door of the right company, rather than working directly in your field.

[LeatherRebel5150 | 1,056]

2 hours ago, RH said:

A couple of other suggestions.  Not sure if they will work.  Try to spotlight any personal fun projects you've might have worked on in college or even in your free time.  You are new to this as a profession, so showing interest is a plus.  It shows motivation to learn and succeed, and not just the desire to start a job.

Don't write off small companies that are in your area of expertise. Getting your first gig can be difficult.  I had a software engineering degree and I moved home to a town with very little software engineering.  I was 4 months out of graduation and at that time (this was 2004) I couldn't get a job.  Anywhere.  Even McDonald's and Wal-Mart wouldn't hire me because they knew I'd be out the door as soon as I got a professional job.  It sucked, even though I hit the pavement every day for months, cold calling or hitting job boards.

Well, a friend of a friend of a friend heard I couldn't get work.  He was a plant manager at a boat factory and offered to give me work on the plant floor as a favor to the guy he knew plus he heard I was a good kid and a hard work.  Here's the point I'm getting at, though I was hired to screw light fixtures onto the front of pontoon boats, I walked into HR and I told the manager I had a software engineering degree and if they ever had any work that was related to come up in the office, I'd appreciate it if they kept me in mind. He then introduced me to the corporate controller and in 3 months, they pulled me off the shop floor and I became there "database admin", which was a stretch because it was an Access database.

This story might sound sad but here's the thing, 6 months after that I got my "real" job.  I dissected that DB and started using real tools built on top of it and that experience carried me into my first position.  I never considered trying to step into my actual profession, but it worked for me.  What I can recommend is that you be open to any opportunity that might let you angle yourself into a department that is specific to your field. Yes, we all want to land a gig directly related to what we dream of doing but that's often not realistic.  See if you can find a good company, get your foot in the door and just network within there until they throw you something close to your area of expertise.  Once you get that opportunity, it should be easier to move to better positions, just don't expect it over night.

Of course, you could find a job right away in entry-level electrical engineering right away, and I definitely think you should continue to search for those opportunities.  Regardless, I think it's also worth strategizing a less direct approach.  Sometimes you just need to get your foot in the door of the right company, rather than working directly in your field.

I appreciate the advice. I do have some things mentioned as projects I've done on my resume. I don't take up too much space with it though since I do have a decent list of work experience, I'm 29 so this isn't my first major job or anything. I've had positions as a manager, laborer, and production. Basically to show I can swing the hammer, or do the planning, or pretty much whatever. My problem is/has always been the initial entry. Once I'm actually in somewhere I'm set, my work ethic takes care of the rest.

I've worked at two places while going for this degree in the field but one is too small to be able to pay me enough, and that's not a dig on them or me assuming I should make bank, but I simply can't afford to live on $15/hr with the loan payments and everything else. The other place in theory would be great, and the department I was in loved me when I worked there for a few months this summer, doing assembly, but they have the biggest disaster for HR anyone has ever seen.  Only their HR deals with hiring. Getting their HR to contact you even when you currently work for them takes an act of congress. 

So really I just need to find somewhere to even give me an interview and I'm confident it would work out. That's why I asked about the certifications for the Lean stuff since so many seem to list it as a preferred thing. I figured it might actually get someone to give me a call.

3 hours ago, Daniel_Doyce said:

Don't put too much stock into the 3 year requirement. Apply and include a nice cover letter and see what happens. Almost every job post lists "requirements" that are more desired than required. With a legit engineering degree and lots of opportunities around your area, you should get some hits.

Well like I said it's not full electrical engineering, it's like engineering lite really. Though I suppose I can apply to the ones with the smaller year "requirements" anyway. I'm curious how needed a cover letter really is. Everyone I've talked to in hiring, has basically told me it's a waste of time since none of them really read them or put much weight into them. My father and grandfather were in upper management in their respective companies and more or less discarded them, a guy that does hiring for L3/Harris (large military contractor engineering place) said he doesn't read them. The places I have worked told me they never read them. I'm really starting to believe it's just pointless to put one on there.

[Daniel_Doyce | 470]

You have to sell yourself to get a foot in the door and then fake it until you can make it. Don't diss your own degree.

I think engineering employers will value someone who can write well, but it's up to you on that. I have contacted some hiring managers directly in addition to applying via the normal process. RH gives some good advice on some extra work to put in instead of passively applying to jobs.

I understand your circumstances since I was unemployed for 2 years back in 2016-2018. I had a few interviews that went nowhere since I had the stink of desperation on me, but finally reached out to someone I had worked with before, interviewed for a job way below my experience and yet also only tangentially related to my profession. After about a year of trying to learn a ton of new skills all at once, I had built up a good reputation and got the chance to get back into my line of work when someone else left the company.

[Code Monkey | 2,006]

If it's trade related then I would highly suggest your paperwork but when I hire software developers, I don't care about certificates. All I care about is that first 2-3 weeks when I give you tasks and you complete them in an acceptable manner and time frame. If not, I spend the next few weeks showing you how it should be done and if you still don't get it, you're out the door.