Earthbound Big Box Authentic vs. Fake....

[Redmond | 152]

I'm not really sure what the point of this post is going to be, but this Earthbound Big Box popped up on my feed and it's, umm, interesting.

Earthbound Big Box ONLY NO RESERVE TOYS R US | eBay

I'm no expert or anything, but comparing the color / print quality on this box to an authentic one, it seems clearly inferior / off.  I guess you could chalk it up to sun fading or some sort of variance ( doubtful, I know ).  I'm pretty sure there's a more obvious "tell" ( likely more than that )without doing the comparisons, but if the pics were angled a bit differently this one might pass.

I looked through the seller's history and they had other EB boxes sold:

EarthBound Big Box & Tray (Super Nintendo 1995) NO RESERVE Snes 45496830434 | eBay

Due to the photos, this one looks a bit more passable and the color seems better, although it might just be the way the pics were taken (  lower light idk ).

And another:

Earthbound box and tray only Super Nintendo SNES Toys R Us NO RESERVE | eBay

 

So someone takes a fake box, does some "relicing", going as far as adding a Toys R Us bag, price/store stickers, receipts, and beating it up slightly.

IIRC I made a similar topic back when NA was around and a few people chimed in.  I bought one of the repro boxes myself back in the day just to be able to compare / be aware of what was out there.  I'm not personally interested in this at this point, but given people are potentially being ripped off to the tune of $1-1.5k, I thought it might be something worth posting ( 2 of the previous buyers left positive FB on the boxes they bought ).  I'm kind of preaching to the choir as far as this forum is concerned, I imagine everyone does their due diligence and whatnot prior to buying stuff but just doing a quick search there weren't exactly a lot of resources on comparing authentic vs fake EB boxes ( perhaps with good reason ). 

So if you are in the market for one of these, I would advise trying to find some high-quality photos of known authentic boxes and comparing to both the listing photos and, if you purchase one, when you receive it.  There seems to be at least a few things the repro makers are missing, but between all of the "window dressing" with things like receipts and whatnot, non high-quality pics, lighting, etc, it can be difficult to discern between fake/real.  

EDIT: Originally had this in the form of a question or something when I was typing it up but mods can move to the general forum if that works better.

 

Edited June 16, 2023 by Redmond
Added infos

[dogbowl | 150]

I don't have any insight into this particular example but I can say this is a big concern of mine.

All I can say is I hope the grading companies are able to, and actively look for, box reproductions as part of their process.  I would expect them to do so for NES or SNES examples -- but I don't have much confidence that they could for older Atari titles.

For what its worth -- I've never see these "Void if removed" or "Genuine Original" holo stickers before.  The chances of this seller having 3 boxes/bags/inserts but no carts to sell seems beyond reasonable to be something authentic.

 

 

 

 

[Tanooki | 4,934]

I wouldn't call it well beyond reasonable, it's quite possible even if equally rare and strange.  I can't speak to the void bit and such, but I do recall stickers for price cuts there.  And keep in mind, aside from the nerd boner about Earthbound/Mother the game was largely not loved let alone liked.  It sold like crap, and was one of those rarer cases where there were more supply than demand for a Nintendo game and it ended up getting price reduced and clearanced out in shorter order since it ate up far more room too than your average game box.

I'm not saying whether this is a real one or not, the images could be a bit more helpful, but the possibility is there is maybe fine as much as it may not be.

[DoctorEncore | 3,691]

I'm not an expert in SNES or Earthbound, but It looks pretty legit to me. The most common mistake I see in repros are alignment and quality of art assets. I didn't do a direct comparison to a known copy, but this looks well-aligned and appropriate in print quality.

[Redmond | 152]

Thanks for the responses.  I’m a bit under the weather so I’ll check back hopefully later today.  Didn’t want to throw anyone under the bus ( too late I guess ), but I’ll maybe share more after checking some more known authentic boxes.  Hopefully a few more takes roll in.  
 

 

 

[Philosoraptor | 468]

CIB collecter and Earthbound enthusiast here. That box is 100% fake, and the insert is a reproduction. I have two real Earthbound CIBs in my possession, and while it looks right on a precursary glance, too many small things are off about it. I could go into extreme minutiae about it, and I'm willing to in a PM, but not a public post. I'll outline some of the things that are immediately off about it:

• The size of certain images are too large.
• The colors and print quality on both sides are not of the same quality as the originals, even if it's faded.
• If it were faded, some of the colors have not faded as they should, meaning they're wrong.
• The physical box that they used is manufactured differently from the original.
• The printing of text and images is not correctly aligned with other aspects of the box.
• The insert doesn't show the wear or staining one would expect to see from nearly 30-year-old white cardboard.

I can't speak to the authenticity of the Toys R Us stickers, receipt, bag, and other stuff.

Edited June 16, 2023 by Philosoraptor

[dogbowl | 150]

The bag is most likely "real" but not "really real" if you get what I'm saying:

This seller is too greedy and not smart enough to space out these sales.  Again though, I just hope WATA is smart enough to spot reprint boxes when they come through their doors.

[Redmond | 152]

5 hours ago, Philosoraptor said:

CIB collecter and Earthbound enthusiast here. That box is 100% fake, and the insert is a reproduction. I have two real Earthbound CIBs in my possession, and while it looks right on a precursary glance, too many small things are off about it. I could go into extreme minutiae about it, and I'm willing to in a PM, but not a public post. I'll outline some of the things that are immediately off about it:

• The size of certain images are too large.
• The colors and print quality on both sides are not of the same quality as the originals, even if it's faded.
• If it were faded, some of the colors have not faded as they should, meaning they're wrong.
• The physical box that they used is manufactured differently from the original.
• The printing of text and images is not correctly aligned with other aspects of the box.
• The insert doesn't show the wear or staining one would expect to see from nearly 30-year-old white cardboard.

I can't speak to the authenticity of the Toys R Us stickers, receipt, bag, and other stuff.

Thanks for the thorough breakdown.  I’m in a fever-dreamish state I didn’t want to throw this seller under the bus under those conditions without confirmation.  On the last point, I think you could apply that to the state of the box as well, it’s missing what seems to be some common wear amongst authentic boxes.

Another strike against them is I was able to find the original listings for the receipts and the giraffe stickers they used.  

It would be nice if there was a way to contact the buyers from May, but I can’t think of any off the top of my head.  Getting the current listing nixed immediately might not be the best approach either.  

[Philosoraptor | 468]

2 hours ago, Redmond said:

Thanks for the thorough breakdown.  I’m in a fever-dreamish state I didn’t want to throw this seller under the bus under those conditions without confirmation.  On the last point, I think you could apply that to the state of the box as well, it’s missing what seems to be some common wear amongst authentic boxes.

It's got some wear that's pretty common with these boxes, but, like you said, other types of common wear are suspiciously absent. For the wear that's absent, it's incredibly hard to come up with a reason why it doesn't exist. For other SNES games? Maybe. For Earthbound? Much harder.

@dogbowl made a great point about the stickers, and I'll go one further. Regardless of whether those exact stickers existed in 1995, why would the owner pull off the hardest stickers to remove (void stickers) and not all the others? From the pictures, it looks like they haven't even really attempted to pull the others off. Plus, if the stickers were cleanly removed, they could add to the wear that's absent from the box.

2 hours ago, Redmond said:

Another strike against them is I was able to find the original listings for the receipts and the giraffe stickers they used. 

Yeah, that's one I noticed, too. Even though Earthbound sold terribly, the date on the receipt (11/11/00) is over five years after the game initially released. The likelihood of a copy of Earthbound sitting around in any capacity in a retail store like Toys R Us for five years is basically zero. A complete copy would have sold years ago and an empty box would have been thrown out, taken home by an employee, or destroyed. Regardless, I can't see a scenario where they would have accepted a return five years after the release date. It'd be like if I walked into store today and asked them for a refund for my copy of Runbow Deluxe Edition for the Wii U.

11/11/00 is at the tail-end of the N64's lifespan, and it's when I started buying games with my birthday money from Toys R Us. SNES anything was long gone from my local store at that point.

2 hours ago, Redmond said:

It would be nice if there was a way to contact the buyers from May, but I can’t think of any off the top of my head.  Getting the current listing nixed immediately might not be the best approach either.  

This is probably where I'd lean more on the knowledge of someone who has sold on eBay more than I have.

[final fight cd | 186]

19 hours ago, Redmond said:

It would be nice if there was a way to contact the buyers from May, but I can’t think of any off the top of my head.  Getting the current listing nixed immediately might not be the best approach either.  

maybe make a post on reddit? it looks like the buyer dropped $1500 dollars on it.   if you're dropping $1500 on a video game there might be a good chance he/she is browsing r/earthbound or r/gamecollecting.  it could be like a "have you seen this person" flyer, but "did you buy this listing?"

[final fight cd | 186]

Looks like eBay pulled the listing only for him to relist it.  

[Link | 2,713]

On 6/16/2023 at 12:33 PM, DoctorEncore said:

alignment and quality of art assets

On 6/16/2023 at 2:51 PM, Philosoraptor said:

• The size of certain images are too large.
• The printing of text and images is not correctly aligned with other aspects of the box.

This is something I've never understood about bootlegs. Presumably they are made starting with a flat image of the real thing. How does it happen that only certain elements get changed in size or position? 

[Philosoraptor | 468]

4 hours ago, Link said:

This is something I've never understood about bootlegs. Presumably they are made starting with a flat image of the real thing. How does it happen that only certain elements get changed in size or position? 

I can only comment based on my knowledge of printing documents and marketing materials on standard printers, which may differ significantly from the printers used in this process. Printing stuff is tangentially part of my day job as a writer.

First off, you have to get the images somehow. If you're using a camera to take pictures of the real box, the angle, lens, and filter of the camera can make straight lines not straight and can skew the distances between elements. Scanning a box, especially an Earthbound box, is difficult because of how thick it is, and that can also make the lines not straight. If they're getting templates and images off of the internet, they don't know how those images have been made, much less compressed, altered, resized, or degraded.

From there, they're making a mock-up of a box for printing that isn't using the same assets used to make the original, so it will never be exactly like the original. The box and guide for Earthbound were created using mixed media and old-school techniques. They cut out or glued elements to a page to finalize them for printing. This is what gives it its scrapbook look and feel. Clay models and figures were used.

Desktop publishing software has existed since the 80s, but Indesign was first introduced in 1999. The transition from physical to digital assets when designing a product, book, flyer, or whatever was still underway in the mid-90s. However, the bootlegger is probably relying on software and their digital design skills alone to replicate the box in some kind of desktop publishing software. This is where the issues start happening. It's very difficult to take accurate measurements from a physical item and replicate it exactly on screen. Even a few pixels off could be enough of a tell for someone to scream "FAKE!" If they're unfamiliar with the printing process or the software, they may position the elements correctly in the software without being aware of margins, bleed, spacing, or other settings the factory's machines use when printing. Also, if you send the same file to three different printers, you're going to get back three slightly different products.

On a micro scale, printing errors that shouldn't be there can be introduced in a print run, making it even harder to exactly replicate the original. Printing techniques and printers themselves have also improved a lot since the 90s. Finally, it's still expensive to create high-quality printed materials, and bootleggers are typically trying to maximize profits, meaning lower-quality fakes.

Printing stuff is a headache.

Edited June 20, 2023 by Philosoraptor

[GPX | 1,370]

Just a general tip relating to mint looking box listings:

- why would sellers meticulously look after the box but not bother to keep the manual?

- the psychology of seller description:

   ~ lack of details could mean the seller is afraid of alerting others of possible deceit.

- check seller feedback: always be cautious of sellers with a low feedback count. Also buyers from the seller may be shill bidders, and check also if they might have a low feedback count.

[Scubahustle | 7]

I just purchased a CIB earthbound and was absolutely terrified of fakes. I went down the rabbit hole of watching every video and reading every article I could one spotting fakes. There’s some wonderful analysis in here. Just one thing I’d add—in photo 8 of 9 in the listing, the “wear” along the top isn’t wear at all. It’s the printed image they’re using breaking where it is bent. If you look closely, it looks nothing like normal shelf wear. Stay vigilant friends! The scammers are out there and getting better. 

[Redmond | 152]

Welp, some good news, at least one of the buyers ( I believe it was for one of the first 2 listings, not the most recent auction ) stumbled across the Reddit post and was able to get a refund (props to final fight CD for the suggestion ).  The seller also changed their name from redturtleraph to nostalgiasales.

Edited July 11, 2023 by Redmond

[Link | 2,713]

On 6/30/2023 at 4:37 AM, GPX said:

Just a general tip relating to mint looking box listings:

- why would sellers meticulously look after the box but not bother to keep the manual?

- the psychology of seller description:

   ~ lack of details could mean the seller is afraid of alerting others of possible deceit.

- check seller feedback: always be cautious of sellers with a low feedback count. Also buyers from the seller may be shill bidders, and check also if they might have a low feedback count.

You should play Werewolf with us.

[final fight cd | 186]

10 hours ago, Redmond said:

Welp, some good news, at least one of the buyers ( I believe it was for one of the first 2 listings, not the most recent auction ) stumbled across the Reddit post and was able to get a refund (props to final fight CD for the suggestion ).  The seller also changed their name from redturtleraph to nostalgiasales.

I’m looking at his feedback and his latest is positive for the earthbound box.  Did the buyer leave positive feedback and then see the post and ask for a refund?

what a little shit. Changing his name .  I’m kinda surprised that is allowed by eBay.  

Edited July 11, 2023 by final fight cd

[GPX | 1,370]

11 hours ago, Link said:

You should play Werewolf with us.

Was that a genuine invite or..are you insinuating something?

I’ll give it a try maybe sometime by the end of the year. Just no damn time right now and don’t log on as regularly as I used to.

[Link | 2,713]

3 hours ago, GPX said:

Was that a genuine invite or..are you insinuating something?

I’ll give it a try maybe sometime by the end of the year. Just no damn time right now and don’t log on as regularly as I used to.

Geniune invite  

It's a game where psychological insight is helpful and powerful. And you displayed it in that post rather handily, however brief. The game is about lying if you are the bad guys or figuring out who is lying if you are the good guys. Whichever team you're on it's all about persuading, and analyzing which is part of my irl job but more difficult for me in this forum game format.

I honestly hesistated to say that because I would hate to be your opponent. But I think you would be good at it and you would be a good player and I would want you on my team based on that. You've always struck me as a smart person and that's a definite serious asset in that game that I wish I had more than I do. 

Yes, it does require a lot of time to play well. 

 

[Tanooki | 4,934]

So that's what this werewolf thing is all about, kind of a text based Among Us in some similar ways.  You have your normals, and a few imposters playing the bad guys who in this case lie and deceive with words instead of actions in that game.

 

Also editing this not to double post.  I'm aware this is anti-intent of the thread, but felt no reason to make a doubling down opposites post on this.  I know there are those dime a dozen copies of the box in a standard SNES form.  Did anyone or does anyone actually make a clone of the big box itself tray and all so you can properly store your original game and guide to keep it safe and together?

Edited July 12, 2023 by Tanooki