SpoonMan Abrams X

https://www.tmz.com/2022/03/14/wwe-legend-scott-hall-dead-63/

R. I. P. Scott Hall

EDIT: A great tribute video

AEW Revolution tomorrow. I don't think I am as hyped for it as I have last couple AEW shows, but it should still be really good.

Tony Khan supposedly still has another big ol' announcement of some sort, imagine it's some sort of streaming deal, which was the popular theory before the RoH announcement. AEW on HBO Max, anyone?

Big ol' news announcement, Tony Khan has bought Ring of Honor

On 2/20/2022 at 8:37 PM, guitarzombie said:

@SpoonMan Abrams X there's a lot to take in and I don't even know where to start since its all a mess but as for people who get into the business, its simple, smart fans who RESPECT the business and the people who helped paved the way for them to wipe their feet and drag their asses on all of it with cringy 'entertainment' ideas.  I don't know why people want to watch wrestling to laugh, or for people to feel like they fit in.  I don't wanna like wrestlers because theyre video game geeks like me, I wanna see them being bad asses that have no time for those things, like a Brock.  I think much of what ruined wrestling are the people who are trying to fit in into a community, when it wasn't like that.  Yeah its good that wrestlers arent getting stabbed and shot, but the fact that they were so good at what they did that worked those people up is what I miss.  How can anyone get actual heat and drama in a match when everyone knows whats going on?  The plot has been lost and its all entertainment, and I think its pretty cringy for the most part and really don't want much to do with it.  Also just to show that serious wrestling would probably draw again, why is the UFC so popular?  Or boxing?  Cuz its real, or even if its fixed, its treated as real and the people dont know.

Not worth wasting any more my or your time trying to even fathom debating any of this. Clearly you're going to just keep doubling down on your bad takes. I would say it's fine, but it's not really lol. Nothing is stopping you or anyone from enjoying what you want to enjoy with pro wrestling. In fact you would probably enjoy it a lot more if you didn't worry so much about what other people are enjoy & just focused on what you may like. Not espousing about how garbage it is now because there is more then just "men being men" schtick, but again I already know that you won't lol. Regardless not going to waste any more time & genuinely hope you are doing well.

On 2/21/2022 at 8:26 AM, RH said:

@guitarzombie ...I kind of understand your point, but I was a kid who was "into wrestling" for about 3 years during the early days of the NWO.  I got sucked into the hype from a buddy who had been (and still is, last I checked) been into wrestling his entire life.

My wife and I started watching Wrestling, on a whim, back in August.  I was shocked she gave it a chance and was MORE shocked that she liked it.  Anyway, we both enjoy the mindless routine and Smackdown is kind of like our "decompression" TV at the end of the weeks as are kids are usually at their grand parents.  I think that the fact that the WWE owns that it's suppose to be a bit unbelievable makes it more accessible to people like my wife, who always assumed they were still trying to peddle that this stuff is "real".  When she started to watch it, she got it.  It's a show and people see it that way.

@SpoonMan Abrams X That McIntyre/Moss match was insane.  My wife had that one moment spoiled for her before the match but she didn't tell me about it.  I verbally let out an "oh my God!" and just looked at her and was like, was he ok?!

I know far worse injuries have happened in the ring, but I seriously can't believe Moss is walking.

And speaking of Moss, I hate that the's a goofy heal.  I know he's a young pup, which is why they've paired him with a staple wrestler like Corbin, but I feel like with proper rebranding, he could 100% be a top-tier wrestler.  I feel he has the looks and charisma for it under that silly veneer.  Ironically, the silly/fun-ness of it all might keep my wife and I around, but in regard to Moss, I really would like to see him transition out of schtick and away from being so much of a heal.

Ok, and last is theory (not Austin) time.  I was scratching my head about the Sami Zane/Nakamura match.  They've stripped Shinske of everything. I know I've been out of the loop for nearly 20 years so I don't know how the business works but I felt like putting the Intercontinental Championship belt in the hands of such a stupid heel is to simply to set the stage for a match with Zane and Lesner.  Could Brock be the one to defeat Reigns?  Maybe?  Will they allow Lesner to then show up and knock out Zane in 15 seconds in a challenge match for Lesner to have Triple-Belt status?  I could see that happening because of they way they're setting him up as an unstoppable juggernaut.  Thoughts?

It was something else. He's been in matches since then so seems he really dodged a bullet. Man is damn lucky.

Also a good theory, and might almost be better then what they actually have planned, which is Sami Zayne vs Johnny Knoxville lol. Also apparently VINCE GODDAMN 70+ YEAR OLD MCMAHON is having a match at Wrestlemania lmao

In other news, Blood/Oil Money Saudi "Elimination Chamber" has come and gone. It was, from a purely in ring and performance perspective, okay. Thoughts on the show;

Moving out of spoilers here, but holy hell I'm glad that Moss is ok. That was a scary as hell botch. I don't think it was Drew's fault, or Moss' own fault, just a combination of things and some over compensating? You can be the judge. Be forewarned this is a bit of a rough watch, though ultimately it seems Moss is doing fine. Seriously, Viewer Discretion is advised.

https://www.cagesideseats.com/wwe/2022/2/19/22942576/madcap-moss-slam-drew-mcintyre-wwe-elimination-chamber-2022 for updates that he is doing fine. Again, just holy hell. Props indeed to him for continuing regardless. Also props to Corbin's taking action to give him time to recover.

On 2/17/2022 at 9:52 PM, Van Jackson said:

Smarks gonna smark. I'd also argue those same personalities have now permeated independent wrestling, and to a degree, the big leagues. One of my favorite quotes comes from Kevin Sullivan; "I miss when the marks were in the seats.".

On 2/18/2022 at 11:19 AM, guitarzombie said:

I guess i'll be more specific.  "Smart fans" ruined wrestling. 

Was gonna say, I'm pretty sure we are the IWC/Smart Fans, just by virtue of posting in threads like this lol. Though I think saying "smart fans/IWC sucks" is like saying "Nintendo/Star Wars/[Insert Thing] Fans suck", it has a lot more to do with individuals and smaller subs then the communities as a whole, but I digress.

I'll get to the elaborated point in a bit, but I think overall and from both sides (fans and those actually involved in the business) it overall is an improvement that we're "informed" more of what goes on in the business, regardless of the negative. That's even with the real fans attacking the performers (Actual mobs & riots, Piper getting stabbed, etc.) as well as the masquerading and adherence to it (David Schultz being a prime example of this). It reminds me of, and is related, to Undertaker's interview a year or two ago, when he compared the locker rooms from back when to today. That's a wholesale positive in my opinion, irregardless of Taker's alleged opinions, if for no other reason they are healthier, happier, and the bad shit doesn't get covered up like it used to.

Also I ask you, who else would want to get involved beyond those who are in the know? It's expanded the diversity & quality of the product in all respects. I can't fathom any business or job anyone would want to get involved in, especially Pro Wrestling, if someone wasn't allowed to know what was going on, and completely forbidden from talking about it. But that may just be me.

On 2/18/2022 at 9:50 AM, CodysGameRoom said:

Inevitable regardless of the "IWC" or not. Wrestling will always evolve and change. 90's wrestling was not like the 80's. 2000's was different than the late 90's, etc. 

Yep. Bret Hart was never like "oooh I get to wrestle Hulk Hogan or Shawn Michaels". He was concerned with his career and protecting kayfabe and the sport. Workers these days are mostly marks, with some exceptions of course. IT has definitely affected the sport. 

On 2/18/2022 at 11:30 AM, CodysGameRoom said:

My point stands really, fans were not going to stay "dumb" for lack of a better term. It was always going to evolve no matter what. It wasn't just gonna be Hulk Hogan, Macho Man, Andre, Flair, Harley etc forever. It's silly to think otherwise. That might be your favorite era and that is fine but it was going to evolve and fans were always going to get "smart".

I agree with this 110%.

Nothing I can really add beyond this, besides maybe preferring other generations of Pro Wrestling. Any refusal to enjoy at least some aspects of the product or trying to just say anything is objectively worse then another is, imho, the wrong way to be.

On 2/18/2022 at 11:50 AM, guitarzombie said:

What I was trying to get to is the ones that permeated into the actual wrestling business and try to get themselves over at shows.  What I love about wrestling, is the crowd psychology element.  How the good and bad guys can control the audiences emotions in a legit way.  The actual WRESTLING itself is the least important part.  Now its about getting "holy shit" chants, and I can't tell if thats the wrestlers doing it to please the ADD crowd, or because thats what they think they're supposed to do.  Or "hes a heel, he's supposed to do that because its in the script" etc.  It seems like it'll be a feedback loop as current fans will want to do that and get further and further away from the actual element of pro wrestling.

Yeah it was inevitable, but you can still respect it enough to know your place in it, if that makes sense.  Like booing the bad guy and cheering the heels and not saying 'Theyre pushing this guy that isn't what I like so im gonna boo him'.  If the product was again treated more like sport, than drama or 'entertainment', then I think the fans would too.  Which is why I like the NWA.  But smart fans to me get so wrapped up in wanting to be a part of the show, that its ruined it. All I gotta do is hop on twitter and see what people think about things, without understanding the basic elements of what pro wrestling actually was for the past 50 years.

I'm a smart fan, but I try to respect what they do.  I can't remember if I mentioned it on here but I went to wrestlecon 19 and would never ever try to talk 'smart' to the wrestlers because I felt thats disrespectful.  I had a really great talk with Jerry Lynn about the Walking Dead and he was using wrestling terms and I said "I gotta be honest, I feel awkward trying to use these terms with you because I respect what you guys do".

On 2/18/2022 at 12:35 PM, CodysGameRoom said:

@guitarzombie that perspective makes a lot more sense to me and I can agree with most of it. I definitely agree with the criticism about marks being on the wrong side of the guard rails. There are too many people who have gotten into the business, that should have been buying tickets. That has negatively affected indie wrestling as well as mainstream. 

On 2/18/2022 at 12:52 PM, guitarzombie said:

Unfortunately I think we're a little too far gone and IMO I blame the WWE from the early 2000s on because I think a lot of it is from what people grew up seeing.  Maybe a bit of ECW as well.  But I really think if the product was taken seriously, the people would enjoy it.  Movies arent real, but when its done well theres suspension of disbelief.  Why do horror movies scare people when we all know its make believe?  You can totally get that with wrestling where you can STILL know its pre-determined but when its done so well, you almost forget.  So thats why I stick with the older stuff, personally.  There are elements here and there with stuff today but as i've been saying, theres just too much 'entertainment'.  WWE is abysmal and most of AEW is indy.  But when either company gets it right (Brock, Reigns, Punk, Danielson) its fantastic and people respond to it.

Again, I do think overall the positives of being informed brings to the product and it's performers far outweigh the negatives, but I can get where you are coming from. My point from before stands, it's much more individual cases & smaller groups within that do more then just the "smart fans" in general, much more then I think you may be giving credit for it. I think the existence of a thriving independent scene is entirely indicative of this. It isn't just limited to Carny-esque grifters & con artists anymore. People can and are succeeding in making it a legitimate business venture, and I disagree with any observation other then it being a great thing.

As for "taking it seriously" that's entirely on the individual, nothing to do with "smart marks" or any amount of being informed. That's just shitty people being shitty. People that need to not take themselves or their opinions so seriously, thought that can be said of many more things but it still stands lol

19 hours ago, twiztor said:

re: Cody

huge news. and it could still end up being.... not a work, as that would imply that it wasn't legitimate, but Cody could still end up staying with AEW i think.
Big signing for WWE if it happens. the first talent to leave AEW willingly and join WWE. i have to believe Cody fully enjoyed the freedom of AEW, getting say in his programs and getting a live mic regularly. He won't get any of that in WWE. Then again, maybe he's had his fun and is looking to settle in for the long haul. who knows.
Big loss for AEW if it happens. Dude was always over (mixed reactions or not), put on good to great matches (the ladder match with Sammy was rated 5 stars!), and was unpredictable about what he was going to do/say next. His booking in AEW was weird, with a lot of stuff feeling disconnected from the rest of the roster (hence the term "Codyverse") but always felt compelling to me.

There's been a lot of hubbub in the last 24~ish hours since then. It seems like while "reports" of him falling out with the rest of the Elite was overblown, it seems like was potentially due to fallout with Tony Khan. He had a 1 year option to extend his contract (like the rest of the EVPs plus other Year 1 signings) which was not picked up by Tony, unlike the rest. So his departure may not be all that willing on his part, but rather Tony's refusal to continue employing him. Also supposedly Brandi was not popular backstage, but that's dirtsheet speculation and I don't entirely buy it.

All that said I don't think the "Codyverse/Codyzone/Cody Island" or w/e you want to call it was entirely him not wanting to do Elite stuff (I recall him making mentions of it a few times in promos, notably his feud with Brodie Lee). I think it probably had more to do with him dipping in and out so much with all his other outside endeavors, charity work as well as The Go Big Show and Rhodes to the Top (the latter even being renewed for a second season not long ago). I just don't think they were willing to necessary put him into other top programs going on, in case he had to be pulled out randomly. Would've been interesting to see him in the Omega/Elite & Hangman feud, but I'm fine with having not been there.

That all said I won't discount that it isn't a work, but I also won't believe he is going back to WWE until he shows up on RAW or something. Especially with after how they treated him, Dustin and their name & dad's legacy... though also never say never in pro wrestling.

19 hours ago, twiztor said:

re: Austin

good luck. dude is 57. he's been retired for 19 years, which is 5 years longer than his in-ring career even lasted (1989-2003). i'm sure he's smart enough to pull off a match that masks his physical limitations, but (besides the money) what's the point?

I consider the term "return match" with as big of quotes as you can imagine lol. It'll be, I imagine, somewhere in the realm of Bret Hart's "return" in 2010. At the very least he seems in considerably better shape & health then Bret, and Sting (at 62 years, mind you) is still going pretty good all things considered. The only concern would be his lack of ring rust, but it his style at the end of his career also wasn't the most intensive either.

Seems like they're going forward with it after KO's promo on RAW. I suppose we'll wait and see. It feels more likely to happen then Cody returning to WWE at this point, for me at least lol

So, uh, Anyone miss the news? The IWC losing their minds today lol

I'm not sold anything has actually happened until he shows back up on WWE programming. This besides news of a widely reported potential Stone Cold return match at Wrestlemania versus Kevin Owens

What do you all think?

Heck yea

Also can't help but have appreciation for Tony Khan's hustle here, though I thought his hyping was fine. "The Forbidden Door" is bit overrated at this point lol

Well that was certainly a Royal Rumble

The non-Rumble matches were all better matches.

Royal Rumble this Saturday. Feels like there are a few directions they could go with this. That said I hope they don't just stick Brock Lesnar in the match after Reigns costs him the WWE Title or some shenanigans. It would exactly be the thing WWE does lol

Also, the best thing has happened lol

Great to see the reaction, too. So many people voicing their support, and I agree; no one more deserving of getting their big break. Also the lulz already

17 hours ago, RH said:

Bad PR from a stupid mistake, or a bold move to rebrand him as a really, really bad guy? Only time will tell though I'm sure it's the former.

 

WWE has since dropped the application to trademark, and WALTER is simply known as GUNTHER as per the WWE website

7 hours ago, DoctorEncore said:

I 100% agree that we should approach with skepticism and caution. It's just been really refreshing to see them grow studios rather than dismantle them over the past few years. It's very encouraging when a luminary like Tim Schafer sings the praises of a massive corporation. And I'm not out here shilling for a 2 trillion dollar company or anything, but I am willing to give credit where credit is due. Phil Spencer and Stay Nadella have really righted the Xbox ship.

It's only a matter of time, imho. Especially with all the excess ActiBlizzard has, I'm fully expecting a not insubstantial amount of studio closures as they consolidate. It's just too damn big.

2 hours ago, Link said:

A friend's friend who is a game dev pointed out that after this deal, MS will be the second biggest game publisher. At latest numbers, the combination earned less than 1/10th of the industry's revenue. So, far from monopoly status. 

The biggest publisher, with a slight margin over MS + Activision/Blizzard, is TenCent, owner of Riot Games and 40% of Epic. 

I'm surprised it isn't EA. Though it makes a lot of sense. TenCent has their hands in a lot of pies lol

Also if anyone is curious about Bobby Kotick's future;

TL;DR He will reside as CEO until the buyout is finalized, then he will get a phat quarter billion ($250 million) pay out. Because of course.

Holy crap WWE

https://www.wrestlinginc.com/news/2022/01/wwe-receiving-criticism-for-apparent-walter-name-change/

https://www.sportskeeda.com/wwe/news-walter-reveals-new-controversial-name-nxt-2-0

https://wrestlingheadlines.com/keith-lee-and-lance-storm-react-to-apparent-wwe-name-change-for-walter/

TL:DR

This after Vince & co. essentially dismissed all of Triple H's team from NXT and have been stripping down the roster fairly regularly.

Just, holy cow

Came to see if this had been posted about here. Glad I wasn't disappointed lol

This is an interesting development. Maybe not the worst thing to happen, especially considering the hot water ActiBlizzard has been in for the last number of months with ongoing Allegations/Investigations/Lawsuits. The timing of it is certainly interesting.

M$ posting about it https://news.xbox.com/en-us/2022/01/18/welcoming-activision-blizzard-to-microsoft-gaming/

7 hours ago, RH said:

Side question, did Blizzard ever pull an EA and buy up IP and then never use it?   Any chance there could be a return of some amazing-and-awesome game from the 90s?

I'm almost sure Activision is a resounding yes. They have more then a few skeletons in their closet (I don't remember specifics off the top of my head, and not the level of EA but all major studios have this to some degree)

I'm sure regardless there will be some exciting announcements in the near-ish future regarding a few old revivals though

1 hour ago, DoctorEncore said:

But if you listen to the developers they've obtained and look at what they've done with theirs consoles and services, they've been extraordinarily consumer and developer friendly through it all. We're just seeing the fruits of this now, but look at how amazing Psychonauts 2 and Wasteland 3 turned out with a little extra funding to get across the finish line.

Sure, it looks good now, but M$ track record, mostly outside the gaming sphere but within it too, is not great in those regard when acquiring other companies & assets

"Embrace, Extend, Extinguish"

TWO World Records set in just a couple hours of each other (Webbed and Kena: Bridge of Spirits) was pretty great to watch live

AGDQ 2022 started today. Mega Man 2 is the current game as of time of this post. Been some neat, quick runs like Deathloop and Axiom Verge 2, and a DKC2 race which was great.

https://www.twitch.tv/gamesdonequick

Good luck with the game

Also we have entered the golden age, lmfao (anyone not in the know, the internet hath rejoiced lol)

AEW Full Gear was great. Their "Winter is Coming" TV special is next week, Tony Khan has said that he wants this month of Dynamite to be great, since starting next year Dynamite is moving to TBS (Rampage will still be on TNT)

Last year is when Kenny Omega won the AEW World Title, this year is Adam Page vs Bryan Danielson (still crazy he left WWE) for the AEW World Title. I'm looking forward to it.

6 minutes ago, Jeevan said:

if it ain't as stressful as werewolf, and if it isn't as time consuming, I would be up for it!

The main game I have in mind isn't, I don't think, though maybe a bit but in much, much smaller doses lol

5 minutes ago, Jeevan said:

Also, @SpoonMan Abrams X, I would say hold off till after the holidays man!  Brains have been fried in this game!

Indeed, carousing the thread I see it went down to the wire too. Congratulations, BTW

But yes, I'll take the suggestion and wait to start up After the holidays. I'll probably open sign-ups either right before or after New Years, and give them a full week, starting actual game by middle/end of January

@Generic@Jeevanthe absolute soonest I think I'd be ready/able to even run the game would be the week after Christmas, though honestly I would rather wait until the new year personally.

That said I'd be more then happy to run another sort of Forum Game that's lighter & quicker if anyone is interested (I have a few games I'd be down to introduce lol)

Just go buy the Superstars already Jeevan, you cheapskate!

Pretty solid open tonight to AEW Dynamite (and they didn't waste any time putting it up on YT lol)

Also, a person after my own heart lol

On 11/23/2021 at 5:39 PM, Bearcat-Doug said:

The actual payoff was beyond stupid. Austin Theory stole the egg so he could take a selfie with it in his hotel room. Sami Zayn told Vince which resulted in him calling Sami a snitch and rewarding Theory with a title shot for no apparent reason. The writing team has to have more wellness policy violations than Randy Orton to come up with something that ridiculous.

It really was. I'd have been willing to forgive it if, again, it had some stakes or something relevant to come out of it. Especially after it was forced into an entire PPV and then didn't get any sort of actually decent build or pay-off. Good for Theory i guess? Many and Much more better ways to build a new star. Vince really just needs to retire. I don't care who it is, anyone would be infinitely better at this point.

In related news, Survivor Series was... something. For a PPV with next to no build and less then zero stakes, it actually wasn't a terrible show. Decent to Good wrestling. But absolutely none of it is the story coming out of it;

https://www.wrestlinginc.com/news/2021/11/vince-mcmahon-loses-cleopatras-golden-egg-at-wwe-survivor-series/ (relevant YT clips to follow)

Oh and the Rock never showed up. Which is absolutely hilarious for a show not only built entirely around the 25th anniversary of his debut; not only promoting the shit out of one of his movies (which means Peacock was actively promoting a Netflix show all night lol); not only being the only thing consistently built to & teased for weeks (including an entire Battle Royal sponsored by Pizza Hut lol); but for this reason right here: