Boosted52405

3 minutes ago, Richardhead said:

lol 

You really lol'd yourself, hahahaha

2 minutes ago, fcgamer said:

Well that depends on how well you train your kids, imo. I work with young children of this age, and we go out to play every day, sometimes more than once. While I personally don't agree with it and think it teaches kids the wrong thing, there are certain parents who don't want their kids playing with certain other kids, either due to family disputes, being afraid the kid is a bully / too rough, etc. And guess what, those kids don't play together, despite all being outside running around together, eighteen kids or so.

But we teach our kids things, don't let them out of hand, and also watch them carefully, none of this one eye on the kid, the other on the phone.

Well working with a group of kids is vastly different than 3 or 4 random families at a public park.  Working with a group of children at once teaches a level of uniformity, expectations, etc.  You can forget most all that at a public park, it's really up to the parents to co-exist.

1 minute ago, fcgamer said:

 

Why exactly do I have to agree with letting your kid play with mine? I think that's for each set of parents to decide and set parameters based on what the parents personally feel is okay.

The mother flies off the handle as likely she (a) hates to see her son sad, and (b) likely heard a version of accounts similar to what Gloves outlined. But she could have calmly asked the what actually happened, and then just left it at that. Then again, she'd likely also believe her kid's side of the story anyways over that of an adult stranger, so.

Where did she fly off the handle?  Please elaborate. 

About the letting kids play - it's a public playground which equals next to no private entitled space.  At most you have to take turns on select equipment.  Not sure the kid in question even wanted to play with OP's kid, it sounds like he simply got too close to them.

20 minutes ago, Gloves said:

You might be misreading the original post.

1. OP goes to park w/ kids
2. A maskless child approaches him/his children
3. Due to OP's feelings regarding masks in a pandemic, he tells the child (presumably nicely) that they can't play with his kid(s) without a mask

This SHOULD be the end of it, for any reasonable parent. This was her chance to go "whatever, you don't HAVE to play with those kids" to her own child.

Now, likely 1 of 2 things happened in the next part, which is part of where OP maybe could have handled it more delicately, for me.

The child either:

1. Went back to their mother and told her verbatim what OP told them - you can't play with my kids without a mask
   1. OR
2. Went back to their mother and told her something closer to "the man said I need a mask to play"

See now, I do think #2 IS more likely - kids are simple. They see it all simple. It's this equals that. I can't play with the kids means I can't play at all, cuz that's the play I want.

If the kid went route 2, yeah maybe Mom is a bit justified in her mind saying "hey what the hell, how dare you tell my kid he needs a mask!" as that is not the rule (kids under 4 blah blah blah).

 

All that said, from OP's perspective, it basically ended at #3 waaay up at the top there, then suddenly he was confronted with an angry and seemingly unreasonable woman.

 

That's my takeaway.

I read the OP perfectly fine, where does it detail out anything about being confronted by an angry, unreasonable woman?  It doesn't at all, it sounds like he demanded directly to the mother that the kid wear a mask to play near him (that's almost verbatim with OP).  At most he has the right to ask her to keep her kid away from his at this point, she is not obligated to mask the kid at all.

@darkchylde28Well we can certainly agree to disagree, but to ask, do you have kids?  Your comment about how the families should all play at the park and keep their distance tells me maybe not...park playgrounds are like a candy land for kids.  If there are 2-3-4 families at a single park, good luck keeping them all 6ft from one another!  It would be a mission impossible level adventure with all the parents in perfect coordination - just not feasible.

The link you provided is kind of a joke, can you provide an actual example of a single enforcement penalty?  There is little to no chance a cop or anyone is going to take action over 4 year olds on a public playground.  It is up to the parents to abide by the public health orders.  According to the OP, he was cool with the kids mingling if they had masks - isn't that breaking the rules too?

You say the Mom flew off the handle...when, when she said the kid was 4?  I don't get that at all from the first post.  You say she was the instigator, I really don't see that, I guess except when she showed up?

I guess my take on this is that the OP should have simply talked with the Mom and requested that she keep her kid away from his kid, for obvious reasons.  If she's unwilling to respect and honor that, then leave.  Nothing else you can do.  It doesn't sound like he attempted to work with her at all based on the OP.  It's neutral territory at a park playground and the kid does not have to wear a mask (but totally should).  It sounds like he came off hostile from the get go, but again, we were barely provided any information about "triggered Karen".

1 minute ago, fcgamer said:

Just reread everything again. Furthermore, why is the other not with her kid? What's she doing, sitting on the bench playing on her phone?

Nothing wrong with telling the kid you don't want him or her playing with your kids.

If I bring my cat to the park, must and oblige and let it play with your dog? Lol.

Woman definitely escalated the situation, too dumb or too much of an arse to respect others' opinions. Could have been a great learning moment, she could have talked to her kid about the pandemic , importance of masks, and germs, but she instead chose to get antagonist.

How did she escalate it, exactly?  By showing up without mask on kiddo?  Very little info was provided on what the Mom said, she really seemed to act about how any parent would act in that situation.  Totally agree she was in the wrong here too though, they both should have been masked for sure.

43 minutes ago, JamesRobot said:

No.  SHE started it!

Seriously, it is not my position that I'm a bully or even an instigator here.

Her first reaction was to yell across the park and my initial response was calm and civil.  She clearly didn't want to hear me and continued to yell, so it escalated.  Once that happens, civility is out the window whether I engage or not.  

I also think people take way too much offense to catching a finger.  It's a PG-13 gesture at best.  She completely lost her shit.  If I was a bully, I would have started calling names and threatening her.  Neither of which occurred.

Ok, based on your original post, it 100% appears you went 0-100 in a matter of seconds, in public, not only in front of your kid, but a stranger's kid.  You actually don't share much information about what the Mom said, other than "blah blah", "i stopped listening to her", "I told her I don't care"...please re-read your OP in neutral shoes.

As for the catching a finger thing, are you kidding me?  You are doing this around a stranger's 4yo child and also your kid (not sure how old your kid is).  Not only are they going to eventually mimick that behavior, that erratic behavior in general can/will leave a lasting impression on kids.  You even said your kiddo told you it was too much, hmm...

From everything I've read so far, she really didn't come off as a "Karen", but rather how about any parent you'd confront at a park in the manner you detailed out in the OP.  If anything, you really came off as a Karen based on the info provided.

1 hour ago, darkchylde28 said:

To directly address your concept that OP isn't some sort of law enforcer, well, I guess the next time someone threatens me, my family, my property, etc., I guess I'll just lay down and let it happen versus taking any sort of opposing position, action, etc., as it's not my place to act as an enforcer of a law I know to be in place, even if could potentially result in the death of me, my family, etc.  ...right?

And to comment on this, a little extreme, aye?  We're talking about some kids playing at a freaking park, not the park being ambushed by a ruthless gang wielding weapons trying to kidnap his kid.

If you go to a public park, you are opening the door for this stuff to happen - if you don't know that going in, well then you're blind.  The appropriate action, especially being a parent/role model, is to cut your losses and dip out.  Perhaps that's not extreme enough for ya.

59 minutes ago, darkchylde28 said:

You seem to forget that while not everyplace has mask requirements for children in place, they do have measures in place requiring adults to wear them as well as softly enforced social distancing requirements meant to keep folks from passing this modern day plague back and forth between each other.  With this in mind, as OP and his children were in the public park first, they were well within their rights to tell anyone arriving after them to stay out of their 6 foot bubble of personal space as mandated in virtually all social distancing guidelines.  What you and others can't seem to fathom is that neither @JamesRobot nor his children were trying to kick anyone else out of the public park or dictate their actions beyond "stay at least 6 feet away from us," which would preclude the newcomer from playing near (within 6 feet of) his kids, who were already occupying the swings.

This is great dialogue and feedback, however, it is NOT a first-come-first-serve situation - I would love to hear what a cop would say about this situation.  Let's say the Mom told the OP to piss off, what do you do now?  What right do you actually have?  None at all.  If you really wanted to call the cops (which would be a massive waste of their time), they would probably just tell the parents to ensure their kids are 6ft apart and dip out.  It's a civil issue with 0 laws bring broke.

If you think it's a first come first serve situation, what happens when family 3 arrives and their little ones are without masks too?  Family 4?  Does he freak out like a loose cannon on everyone?  No, you simply cut your losses, be mature and take your kid out of that situation (again, the OP was the one uncomfortable).  This is current life for everyone, we have to protect ourselves regarding the pandemic.

I never said there was a problem with talking with the parent or asking them to keep their distance, it's the fact that he bullied them out of the park by starting a pretty ridiculous sounding altercation.  The kid did NOT have to wear a mask per the law (although they should have been via the parents simply out of respect in the least).

I suggest to reread the first post, the OP is the instigator 100% and this is HIS side of the story (which was honorably honest).  Wonder what her side would say?  He says the kids can play together with masks (despite your 6ft non-family mandated declaration).  He even says he told the Mom he didn't care what she thought and he expected them to wear masks - again, not his place, at all.  She apparently makes a comment about being a nurse and he throws her the middle finger and beyond?  That's instigating and bullying behavior, I would have got my kid out of there too, that's the last kind of erratic behavior I want my kid around.

@darkchylde28To clarify a little bit based on your response, there was very little feedback in this thread relating to the warranting of the kid wearing a mask.  Pretty much everyone agrees with that aspect of it, the Mom was totally wrong there.  The issue is that the OP simply cannot boss people around in a public park, at all - to take that further and cause a scene including throwing up one then double deuces in front of children, yeah absolutely none of that was appropriate.  The OP is a public guest at that park, not some enforcer of lawful yet socially inappropriate behavior.

3 minutes ago, JamesRobot said:

So legally, up until the point of unwanted physical contact, there is no issue.  Fine.  Then there is also no issue with me telling the kid to take a hike.  I didn't tell him that he couldn't use the park equipment, I told him he couldn't play with my kids.  Tough luck little dude.

COVID aside, what if I just don't like the kid and tell him to get lost?  Also not illegal and also not an issue of entitlement.  

Had she told me to piss off? I don't really know in the heat of the moment.  Probably would have said something else offensive honestly. 

Well literally all of that is for your personal preference, absolutely nothing that the mom or kid has to listen or act upon.  Don't like it?  Leave.  Tough luck dude.

@JamesRobot I want to denote everything with the understanding that I totally agree with your concern and desire, but your expectations are wildly off-base.  At what point should personal space be respected, you ask?  The answer is when it truly is your personal space, a public park is absolutely not that, at all.  Again, I worry you're acting entitled about a public place, especially when no laws were being broken.  After all this commentary and discussion, you're still acting like a public park was your personal property, simply because you arrived first.  Social norms do not override lawfulness.

I totally agree that the kid should have been masked, however you have no entitlement or control over the use of public park equipment.  To expect otherwise is acting falsely entitled.

What would you have done if the Mom told you to piss off and go find another park?

1 minute ago, Californication said:

Legal arguments are used for deciding what is legal/illegal.

That is completly seperate from social norms or social morays, that is what we as a society agree is okay or proper in society. 

For example: It is not illegal for you to have sex with your cousin, but modern society agrees that that is not okay. Would you be wrong if you had sex with your cousin? Legally, no you are good, but you might not want to tell your friends about it.

Now OP is asking if he was wrong in the way he treated someone. He is asking if he violated social norms. And my answer from the beginning has been that the woman also violated social norms by allowing her kid, to be around other people without a mask during a pandemic. OP and his party clearly showed that masks were important to them by wearing them in public and the woman and child were disrespectful by violating OP's space. 

So now that we can agree that the woman and child violated social norms the question is whether OP's response was justifiable. 

 

I was just drafting a response to ask what social aspect/indifference you are referring to, nice timing.  This response is great and I fully understand and agree with what you have laid out above. 

I definitely agree that the Mom was in the wrong from a social perspective, and I hope that has been expressed in my various responses.  The tricky part of this situation is that she is also fully lawful to do what she did (except that she was expected to be masked). That is where, unfortunately, lawfulness trumps social norms and why I feel the OP had no right at all to cause a scene as presented.

We can expect an awful lot out of strangers, but in doing so, I've learned as I age that we're only setting ourselves up for disappointment.  Allow the ones that respect social norms be the bonus to your daily navigation through life.

4 minutes ago, Californication said:

You are going back to a legal argument and not considering social morays during a pandemic. 

Robot has the legal right to flip the woman off. By your logic OP was not legally allowed to tell the kid he couldn't play near them, but he was legally allowed to flip the woman off, and you have no reason to be upset or surprised at him except for asking a kid not to play near him.

I guess I'm confused what point you're trying to make.  The OP asked about his actions - I feel strongly he was out of line, with both his expectations and his actions.  This crosses both legal and social perspectives, however in a civil dispute of this nature it comes down to the rights of the parties involved.  I laid out what rights the parties had, I never said it was illegal that he flipped her off, but for doing that not only in front of his kid, but a stranger's innocent kid - he should be ashamed.

1 minute ago, Californication said:

There is nothing civil about a potentially infected child running up to play with/near you and your family who are using a public space. 

You are talking like there isn't a pandemic going on and the ways we use public spaces has not been modified. 

The reason they had to close down places like beaches, is because people are too stupid to understand that there is a pandemic and modify their behavior. This woman is the type of dumb person that they needed to shut the beaches for. 

There is a pandemic, we all need to make sacrifices. And if Jimmy is too young to wear a mask than he needs to wait his turn. 

I'm absolutely considering the pandemic, have you read any of my responses at all? 

It's actually super duper simple - if you are willing to take your child to a public park (or any public place really), it's up to YOU to protect your kid and your family.  The only lawful control you have in this situation is to grab your kid and get out of that situation - period. 

The law says the kid can play in that park without a mask, so unfortunately the OP has to deal with that, or try and civilly work it out with the other parents.  He has absolutely no right at all to tell the kid he can't play on that equipment, that is my clear point.

You're right, we all have to make sacrifices due to the pandemic.  However, that doesn't equate to heightened entitlement at a public park.  We can only control our own actions, we have no right to demand something from others that is outside of their lawful right.  While I fully agree that kid should have been masked, that Mom had every right to let her kid run around that playground.

1 minute ago, Californication said:

Just because you share something doesn't mean it has to be used by both parties at the same time. If you go to the Boys and Girls Club and want to play pool, you don't walk up to the table in the middle of the game and say its my turn. You get in line and when it's your turn you play. 

Social norms are modified because of the pandemic. I can't tell you how many time I've walked in the street to avoid other people walking from the other direction. Yes, legally I have a right to use the side walk, I am also a young man in my prime so I am going to get out of the way of anyone who also happens to be using the sidewalk.

Yes, but we're talking about a public park here, that's not apples to your oranges.  Based on your example, it would be more similar to sharing a single swing - yes, of course it's expected to take turns.  However, the open swing next to it is fair game, same as if there was an open pool table next to the one spoken for.

Public parks are in place to provide shared park equipment for families concurrently, and in a civil manner.  This matter is a civil issue, not a first-come-first-serve issue.

8 minutes ago, Californication said:

Robot and family were there first they have dibs. That is the way public spaces work.

 

Not at all true.  The public equipment is intended to be shared.

2 minutes ago, Jeevan said:

idk, all im really trying to get across is that technically she should have been wearing a mask.  She really should have because she is over the age of 4.  Anyway, I agree I would prolly do the same while my wife would be a @JamesRobot .  BTW I has no kids  

For sure, Mom and kid definitely should have wore a mask, no dispute there :).  Beyond that, while some people are saying this Mom deserved the lashing (pretty surprised at some of the responses so far), I will flip the script and say sometimes people need to know when they are acting entitled.

4 minutes ago, Jeevan said:

Ok, um, hmmm..... hypothetical situation here, If your kid was playing on a little back hoe thing or was on a swing, and another kid came over and pushed them off, is that ok?  Not trying to be argumentative here, but sure, maybe OP should have said, you guys can have the equipment in 10 mins. and we will let you play here, just please respect for 10 more mins.

IDK, just saying, public places are there for the public use, yes i agree, and no one has more right to it then another, but that doesn't mean that they have to share at the same time.  also, how do we really know her kid was 4?  Did she whip out their birth certificate?  She could have been lying through her teeth, and then she would have been breaking the law.  Also, she should not have been there in the first place without a mask.......just sayin'.  Technically she was going against the mandate there as well.

 

Pretty sure you completely missed my point.  For your hypothetical situation, what is your resolution if it were you?  What is within your legal right at that point in time? 

Not much at all to be frank, you can speak with the parent and ask them to handle their kid, otherwise you pretty much can't do anything.  I truly wonder what even calling the cops in that case would result in, I assume the cop would ask the other parent to leave as they are responsible for their kid and are disturbing the peace - but I am not sure if they legally can enforce it or not if the parent objected.

For me, if that happened I would absolutely speak to the parent and express the bullshittiness of it (yet I am aware enough not to act like an idiot in front of my kid).  If the parent brushed it off, I'd take the high road and just leave.  It's not a point of avoiding conflict and being a pussy, it's just being mature and responsible.

And to point out the obvious, a large percent of equipment at public parks is for shared use.  I assume that is the equipment in question, like a merry-go-round or a slide or something.

1 hour ago, Jeevan said:

If she was a nurse and not some nut job, she would understand that this virus is something you should be careful about. 

Anyway, you do you buddy, people are stupid and there is no way you should have had to leave the park no matter what the law says about exemptions.  IMO you did go overboard, but then again, did you?  Technically your life could have been in danger, or that of your kids. 

1000% agree about the "if she was a nurse part", but 100% disagree about the bolded part.  That isn't how public parks work, at all.  People don't get to dictate who/what/when/where anything with respect to the public equipment, it isn't a first-come-first-serve sort of deal.  The only thing the OP could control is where his kid goes in that situation, in which he should have just got up and walked away.

Questions to ask - are any laws being broken?  What would a cop or lawyer say?  There you go...

To be clear, I do fully agree with the caution and concern of the OP, my issue is with the other 98% of the situation.

This one is tricky, and as I have a 3yo little duder I can totally relate.  However, it's a public place and if there is not a lawful order for her kid to wear a mask, then it's simply a civil issue between you and the Mom (really, just you).  I think you crossed the line considerably, to be honest.

Taking your kiddo to a public park is 1000% opening up the door for this situation, and honestly, you have no right telling a kid to stay off some public equipment just because you want them to wear a mask around your kid.  You don't own the park, and that is really how you behaved.  Furthermore, to publicly argue (and even flip off?!?!) the Mother in front of both of your kids - shows some serious immaturity.

If I would have been the Mom, I would have been livid at this behavior in front of my kid.

While I 1000% agree the kid should have wore a mask simply out of public respect, I fully assume you created a really shitty day for that Mom.  Parenting is hella tough as you probably know fully well, that is probably the last thing she needed to encounter.

You could/should have asked her if he had a mask, and if not, set the example to the other parent by taking your kid and walking away - perhaps explaining to your duder/dudess that you want to keep them safe and it's super important to wear a mask around people right now (my 3yo would fully understand that).

Sure, I am ranting a little here, but am a bit surprised at this story (especially the middle finger part).  Up until winter hit, I would only take my kiddo to empty parks and he knew going in that if other people show up, we will probably go find another park.

It's clear from your poll and public posting that you question your actions, I'm just being totally honest and can relate very closely being a single parent.

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