Startyde

4 hours ago, fcgamer said:

Well that's quite funny because bi never played a PS2 in my whole damned life, never heard such hype, and don't live under a rock. No offence or anything.

Genuine question, and I'm being sincere, how old are you and from what country? The entire world was talking about PS2 at the beginning of the century, it is the highest selling console of all time and the first widespread DVD player. News stories of people camped out for days in order to try and get one was everywhere, and was met with massive shortages as demand was higher than anything for gaming before. 

I could see if you were young in 2000/2001 how all of that could have flown by, but as a HS kid I remember it like it was yesterday. 

EDIT: Reading your posts, it sounds like youre from Taiwan, so the news may have been much different there. In the States, it was def an event, which brings another interesting point in the topic of "most influential" because that can be quite different geographically.

3 hours ago, Dr. Morbis said:

PS2 piggybacked on the Sega Genesis with the "video games are cool" mantra, they piggybacked on the DVD industry by adding that as a selling point, and Atari and Nintendo were household names in America long before the PS2 came about.  He's asking which system had the biggest influence, not which system had the most popularity; what exactly did the PS2 do to singularly affect, change, and influence the gaming industry from its historical point in time onward?  It's literally a Playstation 1 Redux...

I answered why it was the most influential, because it brought gaming popularity to a whole new level. Even huge games like Mario 64 didn't resonate with non gamers. N64 sold less than SNES, and GameCube sold less than N64. Nintendo may be a household name but that was a far cry from universally popular. PS2 made the world take notice of gaming like never before. It's why 4 out of 5 of the highest selling home consoles of all time are Sony consoles. That's just unreal. (Albeit not I clouding portable of which Nintendo has always been king.)

It would also help to define what the parameters of influential are. I take it as the mark it left on the world, in which case I would still go with PS2 because I've never seen the world react to gaming than it did in the early 2000s with that system.

If you measure by the kinds of games gaming can create, Is lean towards Nintendo as they created the architype for many modern generas.

Of we go by hardware Is say Sega or Sony as they pushed what a console should include much more than Nintendo, at least on modern times, as they were the last to adopt disks, then DVD, then online, etc etc.

So the answer is going to depend on perspective. 

PS2 brought the entire world of gaming into the mainstream. News reports of people waiting for weeks to claim one, of shipments being restricted to certain countries for fear of them using the tech for weapons, for ushering in the age of DVD by ingeniously doubling as a media player. Just the mere announcement of PS2 emotionally knocked Sega completely out of the console war, it hadn't even released yet. 

You can argue the long term significance of other systems, but nothing has ever been as hype or cool as PS2 and turned the public perception of games being for introverted nerds to something that is cool to be a part of. 

22 hours ago, Wolf said:

On topic: I’m still collecting VGA and actually converting the few WATA games I have to VGA.  The couple WATA games I have show some slight pressure on the corners of the game box.  

Are you saying you believe the inner Wata liner is crushing the game? This has been my concern as the few Wata games Ive opened, it shocked me how tight the game was snug in the inside liner. Would be a shame to send years finding a mint copy fo a game only to have the grading damage it. Im not suggesting this is definitively happening, but it's a genuine concern. 

What IS 100 percent positive, is there is massive market manipulation between Wata and HA. HA has access to the census where the public doesn't. Ive also seen sellers with ties to Wata cite census information when, again, buyers do not. This is creating a gross uneven playing field. 

As for Adam, he's not selling graded games atm because he's seeing the market explode with new money. Why risk selling something for X when you can charge X times 10 in six months. He's seeing how this all pays out. 

3 hours ago, FenrirZero said:

In this case I did not see the point. And did not find out until they finally sent me the photo(s) I paid for. Plus after joining here I did further research and found out that them doing that was standard. Especially with that game in question since a Japanese seller had a "VGA 95" second print listed at a much higher price point above a "VGA 90" first print. With the difference being that a first print includes a sticker promoting a time-sensitive bonus item (or items) on it.

In all cases my conclusion is that they did it because it is easier to get information on U.S. releases than it is for Japanese, Asia, etc. releases. And with the way things are for them these days they are there to grade and preserve items, not "complicate" things by adding a library of information that might result in them slowing down their promised turnaround times. Which is something I understand because of a scenario I read on a Star Wars fan forum I used to like.

You're making a lot of assumptions, "I didn't think this, I assumed that." There is no magical database of Japanese variants, nor PAL not the infinite variation of EU countries. In many cases, you will know more about what you are collecting than anyone. If you want something specified you must specify it, it's why every grading form has such a section. And yes I also collect JP so this comes from experience.

On 11/27/2020 at 11:00 AM, Jayleonis said:

vga is rigged.  i submitted a game and got an 85. i deslab it and sell to bucky. he submits it and gets 85+. i had heard he was supposedly involved with the company in some fashion.  could argue the grades are close enough for it to just be natural variance but i think its too big of coincidence and have heard of similar stories of special treatment before.

VGA is not rigged and certainly doesn't go to bat for Adam. Anyone who has known him over the last decade has heard him bitching about grades he gets back, all the time. He does have a huge, unprecedented high end collection of VGA graded games, but that's due to the sheer volume of what he sends, as this has been a second job for him for nearly two decades.

Slight variation happens all the time in any grading. Beckett has graded card review process where you can pay to resubmit your card to have it get a second look. Often times it doesn't change, but sometime it can be bumped up. Does this constitute as a "pay to win" scheme, or simply asking for a second opinion.

Recently I disagreed with a grade I received from Wata on a game that got 9.4 A++. So I took it out the case, bubble wrapped and sent back. Second time it got a 9.2 A+ 

That tells me 1: Grading can vary time to time, or 2: Their cases can damage games. Either one looks bad, but I still like Wata and will use them along with VGA.

TLDR: No grading is flawless and making up conspiracy theories to explain human fallacy is asinine. 

1 hour ago, Splain said:

Is it really, actually impossible to open a box without damaging it? Sure, if I'm jamming my thumb into it to scoop the flap out, then yeah, that damages it. Is there not some set of tools that can be carefully used to get a flap pulled up without creasing anything in the process?

Makes me want to pick up some cheap, sealed shovelware to try it out.

This is a good point, for cardboard games. Saying an open box is a 10, as in its the same condition as a completely unopened copy of the same game, wouldn't make sense. It would have to be a clamshell or jewelcase I would think. 

Some people are just damaged. There's no other way to describe.

Not to make this about me, but I still think of this one person back in the day, who was so dead to rights lying but no matter what I did to give them an out, they wouldn't take it.

They wanted to trade one of my VGA games for one of theirs. The problem is, the game he claimed to have didnt exist (per VGA). 

He says he did have it, and that he would take pics of it. Then that night, his friend "got mad" that he would sell it and "took the game back" so he couldnt take pics.

Then it spiraled into more madness where he said he couldnt talk to the friend because even though they worked together, they were on separate floors, but I looked up the address out of boredom and it was a single story small building.

The entire time I was like "Look, we both know it doest exist, VGA says it doesnt, you cant give pics etc, just say you were lying and I'll forgive you. I wont even tell anyone, just stop with the story."

And you know what, HE WOULDNT, haha. The last words he wrote to me years ago that was he has it and I was cruel for not believing him. He then disappeared off the internet forever.

Some people just cannot admit they did something wrong, and will die by any story to try and redeem some sense of dignity, completely unaware that theyve long since spent it. 

What is a PS3 mini? Do they mean slim?

On 9/19/2020 at 4:17 AM, Psychobear85 said:

That's quite the pixel between his legs. 

14 hours ago, ConsoleCollector88 said:

VGA or WATA? I know WATA does this under light cleaning already

VGA, the company you asked about.

On 9/13/2020 at 10:25 AM, ConsoleCollector88 said:

I thought I saw that WATA does this for a minimal fee, does anyone know if VGA offers this as well? I have some PS3 games debating sending in but WATA does not have them in their list of games to send in. Thanks.

Yes they do. It's covered under light cleaning. You should inquire about what you want them to specifically do before sending.

Just now, RH said:

@Startyde Thank you for posting those photos! So the white whale does exist!

Curious, do you keep your eye on these?  You have a general ratio of these that are promo copies versus retail copies?  This is the first copy I've seen without the hole punch, and I've been watching eBay for a couple of years.  I may not have paid attention for the first 6 months or so, but when I did notice the hole, I've always checked.  I've probably seen 4-5 of these in that time frame and I've never seen a retail copy.

This is where I make you feel bad. Three of these have been sold in the last 18 months because the seller doesnt list the titles very well. I think they've finally run out though.

In general, I find promo copies to be infinitely more common than mint, retail versions of the same game, because noone cares about them but resellers. 9 out of 10 times, ever copy of Capcom Vs SNK Pro for PS1 you see will be a promo copy, you almost never see a retail version, because everyone bought the retail version and left these garbo copies behind. 

20 minutes ago, RH said:

Ok, I'm not sure where to post this and I didn't really want to make another WATA thread.  Here's a copy of a graded Syphon Filter 3, 9/11 Edition.  The thing is, like all other copies, there's a hole punch on the UPC.  In spite of the hole punch, it's graded a 9.4.  Is that a reasonable grade.  The game looks pretty solid otherwise but IMHO, that is damage to what is essentially a copy intended for sales and distribution. I personally don't care if this was a pre-release distribution for media, since it was a copy for standard release, this is damage and should take a hit on the grading.

Am I right, and if I am, is 9.4 still a fair grade for this?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/193656790219?ul_noapp=true

I'm more asking for expert opinions.  Maybe I'm off base since that was done at the factory but, you know, miscuts happen at baseball card and comic factories and those ding the grades of those items all the time.  Should similar imperfections affect games as well?

EDIT

I also thing the blurb on the back of the WATA grade is wrong.  It's the same "facts" about this game that everyone states, but I've not found a single copy of this game without that hole punched into it.  If a game was released for commercial sale, it wouldn't have that hole punch because I though that type of damage to the UPC was to specifically show that the item was "written off" by the distributor and, thus, used for preview/media copies and other types of developer/publisher giveaways.

Bottom line, I don't think this game was ever commercially released.  I think all we ever see is people in the media who received copies in the mail but never opened them.  If anyone has a photo of this game without the hole-punch, I'd be interested.  This game is common enough for "super rare items".  Having a no-hole-punch would be the REAL gem of a PS1 collection.

1. I dont believe Wata counts bar code punch outs as damage, which I also don't believe in. People can spin the word "promo" copy all they want, they are maimed copies given to any moron who claims to be a reviewer, or reseller, or whatever, specifically designed to be strikingly unsellable. Not exactly a collector piece.

2. 9/11 Syphon was a retail game that was pulled at the zro hour, making legit copies infinitely more rare than the dolled out ones as described above. 

Wata doesn't grade famicom. 

23 minutes ago, B.A. said:

That's on the inside? Yuck

Yeah, like someone jizzed and put my game on top of it. 

I just sent a game to be recassed because the inner lining had a big smudge on the left. It originally looked like big scuffs on the game but it was an 9.8 A++ so didnt make sense. As teh game moved slowly in the case, I could see the smudge was some kind of residue that was independent of the game, but also scraping off as the game touched it. TLDR: FN Gross.

So I sent it to be recassed and soft cleaned if necessary. Of interest about the liners and how easily they scratch in general, Wata replied to me with this:

Quote

 

"We apologize sincerely for this and would be happy to resolve this for you. 
If you could pack up the game in a box and include a note in it that indicates to our receivers that this is a reholder (scuffed case), we will take care of it for you free of charge, you only need to pay for the shipping to get it to us. We will be sure to get this re-cased and sent back as soon as we receive the box.

3101 East 52nd Ave. 
Suite C. 
Denver, CO 80216

For you to know, the last batch of blisters we received are a little bit different and there is some inconsistency in the cutting of them. So while you have every reason to think that we would be able to catch these errors before they get out the door, we didn’t know this kind of damage was happening until after we shipped, since what’s happening is the little bit of movement from not being a precise cut is causing scratches between the blister and the case (nothing to do with the game thankfully).

But it is inconvenient to customers, because we only find out once it arrives. We've had 2 other instances of this. So thank you for telling us. I know it’s a frustrating aesthetic issue and we’re trying to figure out how to identify it before shipping but it’s very tough.

If there is anything else I can do, please let me know."

 

The one without is first print. I bought it at release.

1 minute ago, jonebone said:

Yeah but a price site is supposed to give us data based historicals, not some bullshit algorithm that is predicting future theoretical value based on the highest recorded sale.  What crooks, and of course, just sweep it under the rug instead of having the balls to call it out. 

Oh for sure, I guess my thesis is I thought people knew it was ding this haha. 

39 minutes ago, jonebone said:

Gotta call this to attention, something I've noticed over the last week.  Their Complete in Box prices are bogus on almost anything.  Literally, pick any title you want and look at the price for CIB that it is quoting.  Then go into the details and all of the recent sales will be much less.  Complete manipulating, as if they are trying to implement some new algorithm that blends cart and Sealed prices.

Complete example at random.

NES Adventures of Lolo 3 CIB, shows as $121.94.  Click into the details, last sales were $59, $69.99, $105, $74.99, $100 and the finally a $145.  Bogus

N64 Goldeneye 007 CIB, shows as $118.82.  Click into details, sales were $59.99, $60, $68.24, $20, $75, $65, then finally a $220.  Bogus again.

They are completely manipulating the market here now.  Do not trust this site anymore unfortunately.  What a joke and what a shame.

Im assuming it's factoring in some predictor? I noticed something similar in collection tracker. You can add a game as new and its value is X. You add as VGA graded and it's now X + some even if there are no sales, as in it anticipates it will go for more if graded? Maybe some kinda extrapolation logic being used on CIB as well if complete. 

VGA

Pros: Can fabricate any sized case, and thus, can grade any game or system or item. Have been in business for 10+ years in gaming, and longer in Toy Grading, in which AFA is a virtual monopoly. They're going nowhere as a business. Their cases for horizontal games in particular, are superior looking. Typically stick to their specified turnaround times, sans for the occasional backup. VGA games will always be in demand as even Wata collectors will try to snatch them up to one day try and convert, so there will never not be a market for VGA. They will answer questions within 24 to 48 hours. Use they toy grade scale. 

Con: Antiquated site, often difficult to see who is behind the grading. Single grade for wrap and game that can sometimes be obtuse in determining why the overall is what it is without a grading report. No census after nearly 10 years, though you can email for grading report. Cases permanently sealed and would be to be inelegantly damaged to remove the game, potentially causing damage. 

Wata:

Pros: Newer grading company with some heavy game and collector influencers behind it. Interesting and attractive labeling. Prefabricated cases that can lead to (hypothetically) lower cost and faster turnaround. Currently has the buzz with partnerships to CGC and HA.com. Attracting high end spenders that is propelling videogame speculation into the limelight, to the delight of longtime collectors, and the shagrin of people trying to now enter the market. Very slick site and easy to checkout. Grade CIB games which will become an underclass of collecting in time. Separate wrap and case grade for an easier understanding of grade. Uses the comic scale. Cases easy to break open and retrieve game if desired. 

Cons: Because cases must be of a standard size and ordered in bulk, there are many games, systems and editions currently unable to be graded, nor may ever be able to be graded under Wata. Their cases are designed with a vertical aesthetic, making horizontal games downright hideous to display. Company is new and has not scaled with demand. Current ETA for an email response is about a week or more. Current turnaround times have always been 200-300 percent of stated time. Inconsistency early on on what they grade off on (one point drillholes were accepted, now not, stickers not considered a flaw, even though they look awful etc). Heavy emphasis on matrix technology that has yet to be released in several years. 

TLDR: Each company has their place and isn't likely going away. Like any asset, you should diversify in more than one to truly capture the benefits of graded game collecting. 

Back in the day, Child World was number 2 is the US toy market. They ironically got into a scuffle with Nintendo over their warranty and return policy, of which there was virtually none back in the day, and Nintendo withheld supply for a bit.

Anyway, long story short is they ended up going under pretty quickly in early 90's and were clearing out their stores so quickly, they often were unable to get at the pallets and supply stacked high or in the back. Legend says a lot of old store stock Child World supply, including late era NES, are piled in various liquidator warehouses across the country to this day. 

That kinda take would be as interesting to sess out as the infamous Atari ET dig site. 

1 hour ago, jonebone said:

It has nothing to do with that for a lot of people.  It's as simple as liquidating one 4 or 5 digit item and using cash from that sale to buy the next thing.  If you've been collecting a decade plus then the items that were $100 then are $1000s now and you just move the cash from one thing to the next. 

Exactly this. While not always possible (certainly not with me) if you can sustain your hobby within itself by selling and buying, rarely if ever tapping outside funds, you've won the game. But this assumes you started early and build a baseline inexpensively. There's isn't a single human being who has been in this hobby the last 10 years or so who doesn't have a spreadsheet of games they regret selling, as early as a few years ago, so to the ones who held on do the spoils go.

19 hours ago, Jim Jimmer said:

Wow, pretty pristine on such an old game. Remember playing for first time on my friends SNES. We had a deal where we wouldn't buy games the other wanted. Kids are dumb. 

Like many have said, I collect sealed games of games I have personally played and loved. I don't see the need for a set of anything because every set has a ton of chaf.