MinusWorlds

There is a need for that. Wata is a grading company. They do it better than VGA IMO. That’s what we should be talking about. Not who is an investor, Director, or board member. Who cares?? 90% of this thread is bashing Wata but you thinks it’s an anti-VGA crusade? Okay... And yes I’m a Wata supporter, I’m also a VGA supporter, but when then same people keep bashing Wata on a pointless grading decision, and fail to mention VGA’s massive flaws (that they’re well aware of) it becomes a problem. I’m sure you’d rather I just sat down and kept quiet. No thank you. I will continue to use VGA as I have for almost ten years. I’ll continue to use Wata as well. I’ll just utilize each for different things and play to each’s strength. The funny part is, the people that should be mostly upset about what Wata has created are those who have been sealed and CIB collecting for years. People who are being priced out of that side of the hobby. The side of the hobby they take part in Guess what? That’s me. I’m literally getting priced out of that side of the hobby because of the new collectors Wata brought in. I’m fine with that. It does suck but it was inevitable if the hobby was going to thrive. I want the hoody to thrive. Some people can’t see the forest through the trees and it’s a shame. I’d put money MOST of the people with gripes or who keep fanning the flames are not even graded game collectors.

They offered to buy back the Altered Beast. Sure, that’s great. Even in this market that game prob isn’t $1k. What about the Sqoon and Mana reseals they graded? They were made aware they were fakes and not only didn’t offer to buy them back, they doubled down and reencased the games!!! What the heck is that all about? Seriously. Maybe they didn’t want to pay the $7k for the Mana or the who knows what insane amount for the Sqoon. So hey, just plug your ears and not accept that you messed up. Awesome. Nobody is suing Wata, there’s no grounds to. Nobody has been duped, robbed, or swindled. There’s no Ponzi scheme. There’s no collusion. If people really want to get mad, get mad at the buyers. Stop with this conflict of interest thing. The only potential conflict could be giving Wata investors or associates a grade bump. Nobody is even saying that’s happened and I know for a fact everyone at Wata understands that can never happen. Ever.

For boxed games I ship in a hard acrylic case if I have one. Not the flimsy plastic foldable cases. Wrap that in bubble, no tape around the bubblewrap, or maybe one small piece at the end, and put it in a box, fill the dead space with more bubble wrap or some packing material. Make sure to put in enough bubble/packing material that nothing shifts in shipping. I like my shipping boxes to bulge from packing material. I’ve had a ton of games damaged from a seller shipping in a box with dead space. It really grinds my gears. If you don’t have an acrylic case, wrap the game in toilet paper first, then bubble wrap. Put the wrapped game in a box. Put that box in a larger box filled with bubble wrap/packing material. Again, don’t tape the bubble wrap or tp around the game. You can do more damage trying to get a box out of uber taped bubble wrap than the shipping journey itself. As far as shipping method I always do USPS Priority if you’re in the states. And if it’s a valuable game add insurance. No exceptions unless I get it in writing. If it’s really valuable I have recorded myself packing and mailing the game. It may seem a little tin foil hat but it’s added insurance should anything happen.

There’s not a lot that I miss. But man I miss the Zelda Proto. I miss that shitty unassuming yellow cart. It sounds lame, but I think about that a lot. So that, and my 85+ Pro Wrestling. The thought of getting them both back fuel part of my collecting habits.

I agree with a lot of what you are saying. I’m not saying they should have a free pass and be able to do whatever they want. But, what exactly have they done? They may or may not have given a Director a meaningless pedigree. Okay. Guess what? Jeff wasn’t the only one looking to buy Dain’s collection and other parties that were interested wanted a pedigree as well. It was getting one either way. So that point is moot. <this part is for everyone> Yes their communication needs to be better. They realize this and I think they will get it straightened out. Along with the backlog issues. I don’t understand the incessant need for all the drama. There’s no grand conspiracy and Wata isn’t the Illuminati. Communication is also a two-way street. NOBODY asked Kenneth or Deniz about the Jaws game. Why is that? I mean people have been screaming from the rooftops about it being a blatant and obvious f up on Wata’s part but not a single person asked why it was graded that way?!? That doesn’t strike anyone as odd? I asked and got an answer that makes 100% sense. FYI, the reason nobody asked is they prob knew there was a valid answer and they couldn’t continue to spin a BS narrative. People need to put down the pitchforks and go play a game.

Also, just to add. It’s been a LONG time since this community was this active. There’s pros and cons to almost everything. I love the new found energy.

That’s fair. I guess my point is they come from this community. That should mean something. I’m happy to pull up a chair and talk about the “good ole’ days” when we were all just kids chasing girls and video games. Or that time I met up with @doner24 and he hit on me over beers. Okay, okay he didn’t hit on me, but that’s still what the community is about. Having a good time with fellow collectors. That part doesn’t have to change just because a small piece of the hobby is big money now. You may not know Deniz or Kenneth but if you make it to a convention and they are there. I guarantee you they would love to have a beer with you.

Yeah I suppose you’re right about VGA. They did take a thumping. My point is we know Deniz and Kenneth. Do you honestly think they would do anything shady? I don’t. I think the appearances of conflicts of interest are exaggerated. I think some of this was avoidable while other aspects were not. At the end of the day I believe they only care about bettering and advancing the hobby.

Plenty of people have that mindset, and that’s okay. It’s okay to prefer VGA. But, when you make it your personal crusade to bring Wata down or bad mouth them at every turn the comparisons need to come up, even if just to highlight and remind people of the benefits Wata brings to the table. Guys/Girls - At the end of the day Wata is Deniz and Kenneth. These are our friends. We’ve known them for a decade. I’m sure some of you even helped change Deniz’ diapers (just kidding Deniz, you know I love you). We have joked, shared, and grew a community together. They made Wata out of a desire to advance the hobby they love as much as we do. Why are we so quick to try and tear them down? Yes the hobby has changed, yes it feels like a business at times, but we all helped get it here. Every one of us. This community started here, we’re all responsible for where we are. I said it before, but I’ll repeat it because I think it’s worth saying again. Without all of us and new collectors coming in over the years this hobby could have died a long time ago. I don’t think any of us want that.

Because nobody could be bothered to ask Deniz or Kenneth about the Jaws, I did. Here’s the explanation: LJN had overstock of a lot of games. They would seal them in-house. The President of LJN sold some of those games. Deniz then did the due diligence to verify this through emails provided etc. The determination was they were legitimate seals done at LJN based on the evidence provided and their own fact-finding. A discussion was had internally and they decided to label the games as “third-party seals”. That’s it. So since we’re just bashing grading companies any chance someone wants to do some legwork to explain these to me? I mean I did the Jaws homework. Altered Beast 90 - SWEET Baby! Oh wait a second here is that a white edge along the top signifying a photocopy? Legit covers don’t have that. And is that scratches coming through onto the photocopy from the original? Oh look at that a nice blue Altered Beast, maybe that’s a cool variant, wait, nope, that’s just bad ink from a shitty copier that couldn’t process/copy the black ink correctly. Castlevania Q85+ - Wowzers! I mean a “brand new” Castlevania hangtab. SICK!!!!! Hold up, Are those inserts correct? Aren’t those inserts from like 88?? But HT CV came out in 87? Well, that’s odd. Seems to be missing the correct 87’ inserts too. Annnnd wait a minute, is that a manual for a PAL Pilots Wings for N64?!? Oh it sure is. How did THAT get in there? Strange indeed. I mean Q games are brand new, never opened, no exceptions right? Here’s the deal, grading companies are still humans, mistakes are made. The bias towards one or the other is real too. What I don’t appreciate and find troubling is people that repeatedly bash Wata, make snide comments, post passive aggressive comments and then break bread with them and sell their graded games for massive profit. All the while not making a peep about their competitors errors. When they know full well about some of the ones I’ve mentoned. Or sit in silence when I say Q games are a sham, when they know full well I’m telling the truth. I care about consistency, legitimacy, and being able to identify fakes. Wata is without any question better at all of those. That’s what I care about with any grading company.

I don’t see that. I see consistency. Look at the Indiana Collection. I don’t see anyone paying a premium for that. I feel as if that deserves a pedigree, then Dain’s Collection certainly does. At least that has high quality, valuable, desirable games. The Indiana Collection was almost all commons stored for 20 years. Whoopty doo. This is another reason to simply not do pedigrees. But, let’s not act like Wata made a special exception for a Director and slapped a pedigree on their collection to give them an artificial price increase. They have been consistent with designating games as part of a pedigree collection. Whether we agree with that or not is another discussion. If you are going to do them I would have liked to have seen a more stringent approach. But, again, who cares about a damn pedigree? I don’t think many people do. Are we really making it a big deal that Wata designated a collection as a pedigree? I mean, that’s what we are talking about here. Sure it’s a lively topic, and almost comical that we’re questioning if certain collections deserve pedigrees, but seems to me people are just looking for reason to hate Wata at this point. Fight the bigger battles people.

The rich stay rich man. None of the new buyers are going to skip a beat if the video game market does crash. People throwing tens of thousands of dollars at games don’t worry about losing that money. 8 years ago everyone was calling one buyer an idiot for what he was spending, and guess what? If he sold today he’d make money. And I can tell you with certainty, what his games are worth doesn’t keep him up at night. He has f you money, as do the majority of the new investors, errr I mean collectors. We don’t have to like it, but that is the truth.

I’ll repeat this before asking my question, I’m not a fan of pedigrees. Assuming the above is true tho...What is the potential conflict in that scenario? I’m not being purposely obtuse. I’m asking a legitimate question. It’s not as if Jeff gets an automatic uptick in price because he has a pedigreed collection for sale. Most buyers don’t care about pedigree, and those that do most likely feel as though Dain’s collection is deservant of a pedigree anyway. I personally am 50/50 on if it does deserve one, and certainly wouldn’t pay a premium. By nature a small hobby such as ours is going to be incestious. It is what it is. At the end of the day you still need buyers. Nobody is forcing anyone to buy anything here. Nobody. The puff pieces are old, tired, and nauseating at this point, agreed. What would everyone propose? Wata issuing a statement, saying what precisely? That Jeff is a Director, that he does have a pedigreed collection, that his games were graded honestly and without bias (I firmly believe there was no bias in grading)? Even if they did that people would still be claiming they are destroying the hobby. What precisely does that accomplish? People will never accept it as fact. I’m seriously interested to hear what the ramifications and potential conflicts are here. People everyday promote their products and invest in them at the same time. It’s business. Are you upset that our hobby is operating more like a business now? If so, I’m right there with you, but I’m not ready to hang anyone or file complaints with the SEC or whatever the end game is here.

I agree with you. Definitely not a fan of pedigrees either. At this point I think the only one that makes sense to me is The White Mountain Collection. And even then it’s only because it’s piggybacking off the comic pedigree.

I’m really tired of hearing about this resealed Jaws. It clearly freaking calls out it’s a reseal from a third-party. It’s on the damn label. Why not just ask Kenneth or Deniz what they are referring to? Seriously. All this while VGA authenticates an Altered Beast with a PHOTOCOPIED cover, has sticker sealed games rejected as opened when they weren’t, marks games as Q when they are frankensteined and/or have the wrong pieces. But that’s all okay, right? I’ll give you a hint, it’s not. I’m not even trying to dog on VGA as I like them and I love their customer service, but to repeatedly put Wata on blast for something that was clearly noted is beyond absurd. Companies makes mistakes, even grading companies when the mistake can have a significant monetary value. But, repeatedly calling out one mistake that had an obvious notation of a reseal is petty, at best.

<— <Reads today’s Wata email. Slowly backs out of the thread>

I think some people have a hard time separating Wata the company from the speculators. Wata as a company is merely a tool people are using. It’s no different than when I used VGA to maximize my profits on sealed sales. You have to separate the two where applicable tho. I also believe both Mark and Dan make valid points. They’re both highly intelligent people with differing views. Not a big deal. You have both done a ton for advancing the hobby. Mark is not saying anything that others aren’t feeling as well. It does come off as disingenuous when the majority of the people adding commentary are profiting from the article in some way. And others, have zero credibility when it comes to the topic at hand. That Launcher article was trash. I’m sorry, but it was. It was poorly written, poorly edited, and used commentary from folks who haveYouTube followers, but zero experience in the topic at hand. It felt slimy. It was just a hype piece poorly disguised as a legitimate article. I expect way more from the Washington Post. Also, Mark points out some serious appearances of conflict of interest. That’s going to rub people the wrong way. Dan is right that Deniz is by no means whatsoever a thief, and quite frankly the most experienced person in the article. And yes it means something that Deniz and Kenneth are from the community, and genuinely good guys. I have no problem with Deniz adding commentary as that is his area of expertise. But as a whole it can’t be the same 2 or 3 people talking about it. Deniz is just speaking about what he feels about a topic, or where the hobby is going. Nothing wrong with that. I would have liked to have seen some of the actual sealed experts commenting on the article. Maybe that wasn’t possible? I don’t know. What I do know, and have been saying for a long time is, whether it be Wata, HA or someone else, other subject matter experts need to be identified. People that that side of the hobby will take seriously.

Good to see you here.

That’s so true, Wata has certainly reinvigorated the hunting game. You’re right, they did have a large influence, but I don’t think where we currently are was entirely intentional. Sure they wanted to lure the comic crowd in, but I don’t think anyone could have predicted what that would lead to. Is Wata good for the hobby...for me it’s a resounding yes. Wata and VGA both are. Competition is good and we now have a much clearer idea of where the strengths lie with each. I send the majority of my games to Wata, but that doesn’t mean I won’t use VGA going forward. Every game will come down to an individual decision. If the wrap is like glass and the box is decent, it’s going to VGA. If the box is super sharp but the wrap might be a little scuffed it’s going to Wata. I also give Wata a significant edge on being able to identify fakes and authentic sticker seals. They really are video game experts, VGA is strictly a grading company. And there’s nothing wrong with that.

Hey All, I just wanted to say to say thank you to everyone that had a piece in making this new site. I hope we can get back to being a community and away from the turmoil. Is it true there’s a like button here?