VideoGameGradersLLC

Must be because the response has been vastly different here, guess everyone inclined to share their opinion already has done so.

I initially posted this in another group and although I did get some good feedback I was also told rather clearly I was asking the wrong group. It will be interesting to see how this group reacts compared to the interesting lifecycle of this topic in the other group. I know that grading of vintage games is a hot topic and many feel strongly, some VERY strongly. And I completely respect that, totally understand that many do not want games graded for many reasons. But other do, so for those in that camp - do we need another grading company? I would greatly appreciate 2-3 minutes of your time to fill out a quick survey and share your thoughts at https://forms.gle/5MWGhQfGqCjfBPnj8 You can learn more at https://videogamegraders.com/ and at https://igg.me/at/video-game-graders Thank you for your time and consideration.

Correct, and we aren't trying to solve this problem because it's unsolvable but it doesn't mean we can't offer a quality service. I didn't mean to imply or state that just being competition will drive our success solely but if you think there are no unhappy WATA and VGA clients willing to try someone else, that is short sided. And of course we feel we offer unique offerings, some (many) in this group don't necessarily agree but the hand full chiming in does not make up the entirety of our audience. A different scale, by definition is different. And if no one else has the same scale then by definition it is unique. We understand we cannot be 100% objective with grading, can't be done but we believe our system gets us closer than hey this game looks like about a 7.5....could it be a 7.8? Don't know, don't care it's not an 8 so we'll call it 7.5 today. Will we be perfect no. Has any grader ever been perfect with every grade, no. Appreciate the feedback, constructive criticism always appreciated, it's why I'm here. Intelligent adults can and should have difficult conversations about things that matter to them. It can be heated without being personal and can stay constructive.

Maybe, but timing is everything and with many, many things having to happen at the same and some how time the completions to lineup it's easier said than done. We will certainly share more information on cases when we have more to show besides 2d/3d drawings in 4 variations.

Excellent point - I agree with you. It has been discussed but a final decision has not been made as it would be the only element not related to appearance. So despite your objections that this is the wrong place to solicit feedback you've made an excellent point and may have changed our scorecard in a real way.

Our cases aren't finalized, can't show something we don't have. What would you like to see. I've shared a lot details on this forum.

For sure. Friendster was the ultimate social media platform, noone will ever leave it, hey look MySpace - now that's amazing, noone will ever leave MySpace. The auto industry, banking industry - too big to fail??? Well if not for the government they were absolutely not too big to fail. People won't buy cars entirely online - ever, that's ridiculous. Tesla disagrees. As does Carvanna and Vroom. Fair examples, probably not but this is a challenge for all businesses - we also believe there are plenty of new opportunities for customers that aren't locked into WATA. I'm guessing some people thought WATA couldn't take business from VGA. My point is that just because someone else does a great job doesn't mean someone else can also do a great job and have market share. People probably didn't send WATA 100 games on day one. They sent a few, like what they saw, sent a few more, etc...now are loyal. But why won't people try us? Especially if they can pay the lowest fee level and in the beginning get 20 day turnaround times for 99 day turnaround prices? We are confident they will like what they get and will send more - if we're wrong we will fail. If we're right we'll grow slowly and be successful.

We are fully aware of this, we simply can't layout every single aspect or our plan or give full details of why and how we are handling every detail of a new business. I do think some of your examples are a bit absurd, exaggerated for affect I'm sure, but point taken. No business can prepare for every single scenario but we can plan smartly and be as prepared as possible.

Doing research in only one place would be foolish. You make good points, but the more feedback we can get from a variety of sources makes us smarter as we move forward with our business plan. And we understand this is not our core audience but there are a lot of very smart people in this group.

You can pre-purchase grading at a 33% discount through the Indiegogo page. And as a thank you for certain levels of donation we are offering LIFETIME discounts on all future grading services - to quote Tosh - that's not nothin'

If I haven't answered this yet specifically enough, does this help: We believe (others will disagree) our scoring system that uses 130 scores over 26 specific areas across box, manual and cartridge is more thorough than others. We will mark on a diagram where we saw something that we marked as a negative agains the score And most importantly the scorecard will be attached to your game viewable in the customer admin section - full transparency at exactly how we got to your grade. The scoring system is a 200 point system that translates to a grade on a point scale - by halfs. We won't go by 5s except for the highest score. You grade is a number from 0-100, period. Not questions about is this 9.2 actually a 9.3999 just not a 9.4 and not 80+ from VGA...??? Is is 81, 82, 83, 84, 84.9? Our grade is what it is. We are introducing Black Box and Zelda variant designations right on the front of the label. At a glance you'll know which printing (1-11 for example on OG 17 NES games) the game is and for Zelda, which variant the box is, the game is and the manual is. Not necessary for this group but for many collector's we believe this will be a welcome addition of important information. POP report - WATA says they have the data, so where's the report? Is it possible a POP report hurts their business and that's why they haven't published it? We absolutely understand and respect that a POP report can be misinterpreted and for the good of the hobby/industry must be handled responsibly but how long does that mean waiting? At what point do you trust people to understand the data and make their own decisions rather than babysitting everyone by not releasing that data. That said, they sure don't mind commenting on population of high end games that are getting headlines on Rally Rd and Pawn Stars and HA auctions to drive up demand and prices yet won't release full POP reports? We will be different by not being the only show in town. Others have disagreed but competition (yes, quality competition) makes everyone better - WATA has very little incentive to do better right now, maybe many don't think they need to but at least some aren't happy with current options. Our labels may not match the impressive level of WATA but will be superior to what VGA provides. I understand you (and others have mentioned) they care about turnaround times, but when WATA was taking literally 9-12 months to return games people cared a lot. Keeping to our estimates is important and is a differing factor - fair to say assuming we can do it. We believe we can of course. Time will tell. It's clearly not a dealbreaker as WATA and VGA thrive despite brutally slow turnaround. Easy to use website and ordering process - WATA isn't bad, but VGA is, well, not as easy. Hope this helps. We aren't reinventing the wheel, nor are we trying to.

Arcade classics since dumping quarters into machines was what I knew. Asteroids, Space Invaders, Centipede (although it wasn't the same without the rollerball - which is why ColecoVision was awesome!) and I loved KABOOM! I do play NES games on the NES Classic, with Hackchi's help have everything I need. Current games, not really. Latest FIFA, Madden, most EA Sports Games I'll try but it's tough to find enough time to play too much these days.

I could tell - thanks!

Probably very smart but compare the sports card market over the past 30 years to any so called traditional investment market. Of course traditional investments have many, many more years to prove their value but collecting as an investment is not fool's gold.

I am a big fan of what I played as a kind, Atari 2600 and NES games but more than anything I enjoy playing with my son who is now 17 but every once in a while still plays Mario with Dad like when he was little (and I was still better than him at video games) and we worked for hours and hours to beat Super Mario Galaxy as a family. And you can follow my countdown of my favorite NES Black Box games on Twitter this month, non OG 30 countdown in April.

I'll do my best to answer these fair, well thought out questions Certainly there are unforeseen circumstances that impact businesses and nothing is guaranteed. But starting slow, we don't plan to "grade everything" from day 1 and we know that it's an uphill battle (most new businesses are) which plays to our favor as this slow ramp up allows us to be confident we can keep our promises. If the FedEx truck carrying our labels gets t-boned at an intersection and we have to re-order that's a slow down, or our box supplier literally goes up in flames, problem - case manufacturing, even keeping it in America is a potential huge risk all the time. BUT.... good business practices help mitigate those things. Don't wait until the last minute to re-order custom labels, don't let box supplies get too low, have a trusted partner with a proven track record of manufacturing our cases and again, order early - don't cut it too close so that if something does happen you have a buffer before it's a problem. Common sense, sure. Do all businesses do it - absolutely not. I've been collecting all my life, and as someone did the math early to point out, I'm an old dude. No I haven't been collecting video games for 40+ years but there are a lot of similarities in all collecting markets so I certainly understand grading, quality and variability of items. I have experience starting and running businesses, some successfully, some not which means I know success and failure which IMO is important. I believe the market has matured to the point where that deep tie to the community is no longer a necessity to launch this venture. If there is demand for another TPG and we deliver quality we will be successful, if not we won't - is it that simple, probably not but close. Our biggest challenge, no question. We do believe once people see our final product and service they will speak highly of it and we will grow but getting that traction will not be easy. Deep discounts on grading packages for those willing to get behind the Indiegogo campaign is part of that, multiple marketing strategies will be in play as well, including following the WATA model of showing up at conventions and events. It's a balance of art and science, yes - always will be no doubt. It's vitally important that we are vigilant in our process and final development of our grading system. Will someone always disagree or see it differently, yes but no company will solve that. All day everyday I see people complaining about this grade or that grade they got from WATA so even the great and powerful WATA isn't satisfying everyone every time. It's part of the deal. It's been happening in sports cards for nearly 40 years yet grading survives, the industry thrives and there are multiple graders in the space all very busy. I guess I'm not convinced that our reasons for starting this business will matter long term. If we offer a quality product and service people will use us. Businesses make money, that's okay, it's okay for a business to charge you money to provide you a service. When a free grading company starts they'll be a threat to us all. So you say cash grab, but what's wrong with starting a business, providing jobs for my community offering a service that people want and doing our absolute best to be successful? It's tough for this to be a cash grab, thousands up front for a website and backed system, many thousands for case development, engineering and manufacturing, employees, benefits, rent, etc.... to be successful we MUST make it long term and are very committed to doing. 5-6 years ago the market wasn't the same as it is now, I wasn't in the same position in life/business as I am now. Hope this helps, happy to follow up if not.

Completely respect that - grading isn't for everyone which I stated from the beginning. The sports card industry, coin collector's, comic books all hated grading when it entered the market now it's almost required if you want to sell anything. Many of you will never ever sell a video game much less slab it - totally get it but for those that do want, need and appreciate what grading offers it seems logical that more options makes the market better, if WATA disagrees, if they or any company thinks they should be the only game (no pun intended) in town that would cause serious concerns for me as a consumer if one, even 2 companies controlled the market and weren't in fact neutral 3rd party graders.

So far, still just mine: 0 backers

Excellent point. However the grading will be what matters long term. The marketing got them going and growing but to sustain over the long haul they'll need to grade consistently and fairly unless they never face real competition. I can only assume they've been consistently bashed and ridiculed for being unprofessional and unprepared for their home page here on March 5th still having their holiday shutdown message up?

Why wouldn't they? Comics have? Sports cards have? Coins have? China has? Dolls have? Emergence of fractional investing has brought increased interest in many collectible markets and driven them up recently and the basics of supply seem to favor video game collecting. So, honest question - why do you disagree? Thanks

So to address a few other points, WATA's relationships and some business practices including manipulation of the market are questionable in my opinion and part of the reason additional graders are needed. In terms of funding and a business plan. I'm sorry I'm not going to publish our business plan on the internet, no business at any stage would ever do that. As for funding, attempting to raise money for a startup business is very common. The success or failure of this venture is not fully dependent on an Indiegogo campaign, I am fully prepared to fund this myself if necessary but minimizing risk to improve the odds of success is simply smart business. But again, I'm not going to publish my personal and/or business P&L or any other financial data publicly on the internet. Not sure why my age matters. Many people are making assumptions because they don't see something published by me or I have specifically addressed this or that it means I'm not aware of it, or an idiot. Fine, but every single aspect of this business is not out on the table, not open for public consumption. While I certainly respect that you think it should be, that fact that it's not doesn't make it a failure on my part. The sportscard industry has seen many grading companies come and go but have several viable options right now - not just one or two. And the market does show preferences for certain graders over others - that's the business of collecting/investing. The same happens here - some people like VGA most people prefer WATA but both have huge backlogs of games to grade so there is demand for the service right now. Does that last long term, obviously I think so. As for the antics and comments from @OptOut that's very disappointing but every thread has that guy I guess, for those (and that's most everyone else) who do actually care about your hobby and have provided honest feedback and opinions I appreciate it.

Collecting evolving into investing is simple supply and demand and seems inevitable if there is opportunity to make money from it. I know many collector's hate that but it's this increased interest that, at least temporarily, bring a lot of new product out in to the open as people start digging through attics and storage bins. In terms of long term value - it's absolutely there. And despite some rather negative comments about my intentions this is based again on human nature and what drives demand. Demand is coming from nostalgia (very powerful), scarcity of product - especially sealed, especially high quality and this is happening in an emerging market as just now, even after a few years of rising popularity is finding mainstream and growing with crossover collectors/investors so the demand doesn't seem to be slowing. And supply, although seeing a temporary uptick as people start to realize they may something valuable, is very low. If you think about the most rare sports cards, at least the rare mainstream cards they exist in the hundreds, if not 1000s yet have great value due to demand still being higher and nostalgia being a huge factor. Right now eBay how many 86 Fleer Jordan PSA 8, 9 and even 10s are there plus dozens (hundreds) on other auction sites? The hottest card in the sports card world is everywhere - readily available; very expensive yes but there. How many OG NES Super Mario Bros.? How many NES Black Box games? Name your rare game - or popular titles, the supply pales in comparison to video games so even if there is never the same demand for video games as sports cards the supply is also exceptionally low. Matte sticker NES games in test markets - most believe max 10,000 ever existed. 9,000 of those tossed in the trash can after being ripped open? Most of the remaining 1,000 beat to hell over 35 years - high quality, much less sealed are in very rare supply to say the least. So yes, there is long term value in video game investing because there is long term imbalance of supply and demand. And if there are people that only buy/sell for the value of it to make a profit then so be it.

Great point, very fair. It's why we are being so aggressive with our Indiegogo Perks of deep discounts for those willing to give us a try. We know we will not have the built in trust in the same way. Also fair to consider the market has evolved since then, more demand and more understanding of video game grading.

I’ve been running, not just studying, businesses since the late 80s so I’ll trust by understanding of what works and what does not. There are many ways to be successful and many ways to fail. And one of those steps is understanding what your perspective customers want from you why at this early stage in the development of this business plan I’m reaching out. Any additional details you can provide in terms what it will take will absolutely be considered as just in the few hours since we posted here changes have been to the website and the survey based specifically on comments from this group. I don’t have all the answers, I know that, it’s why I’m asking. I expected to get attacked some, it’s all good. All feedback is helpful for us at this stage.