NiGHTS into Dreams - Jojo reference?

[BouncekDeLemos | 82]

First off, big fan of the game. So when news came out that the PC/remake port was datamined, I knew I was in for a big treat. 

Namely what stood out to me the most was Jackle's tarot cards. One was only shown in the game, many others where shown in the hint screen, but now they're available for all to see:

A Youtuber by the name of Digi Valentine posted these discoveries a while back and asked for conformation on some of the cards

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A0Qsk62g5AU

While researching I may have found what art was referenced for these cards.

They were referenced from Jojo's Bizarre Adventure. Yes, a freakin' Jojo reference.

Not kidding, this blew my mind. It's so interesting that they went with this style. 

Breaking down each card, I'll explain my findings and how the styles match to one another in the picture below. 

Note: You can already see how they used the same arcs in the framing. No other Tarot card I've seen uses this style frame to my knowledge, which is a good giveway.

#1: The Chariot card. 

You can really see the similarities between the Nights card and the Jojo one. Both have similar colors, similar chariots, etc. It's fun to note that most Tarot cards aren't in this style, and as you'll see on the others, some things have been slightly altered to remain a legally safe reference. 

#2: The High Priestess.

This one is a tad bit difficult to spot. What gives it away is the crown, the building in the background, and the purple pillow/seat to represent the chair. 

#3: The Sun.

This one's a bit easier, still much has changed. The squinted eyes and teeth are a giveaway, as well as the pedals.

#4: The Tower.

Now this one may be the only one that ISN'T referenced off the exact Jojo card, however, this style with a person falling from the tower is in actual Tarot cards. I guess the artist wanted to change it up a bit?

Like most cards, I think the character represented here is Jackle. He's in the High Priestess and Magician cards, so I have no doubt that's him in this card. 

Things to note are the spade/shovel/scepter(Scepter from the Magician card?) in the ground and what looks like the Priestess crown he had in the other card. Almost as if this card was meant to tell a story.

#5: The Fool/The Hermit/Wheel of Fortune.

It's the only Nights card I can't really match to the Jojo cards. Seems to be a mix and/or was referenced elsewhere. The character on the card looks like the Hermit, but looks to be walking to their doom much like the Fool card, but all the swirlies in the background looks to be similar to Wheel of Fortune. 

I... can't explain this one. Anybody with ideas, please share.

#6: The Magician.

This one stumped me for a while. However, a key element to the background showed what card this was.

See the curtains on the Nights card? The only card with curtains like these are the Magician. But why is Jackle mirror-flipped upside down on the Nights card?

My theory is that seeing the knife on the table might have seemed too violent? It's a theory, but makes a bit of sense seeing that there's a guillotine in Jackle's boss area. Dude seems like a nutjob.

It's very hard to see, but it also looks as if Jackle is holding a scepter (ball facing down), much like the Magician is in the Jojo card.

#7: Lastly the backs of the cards. While they don't look exactly the same, they do share the same design symmetry.

That's it for now. In closing, I got to say that the more we dig into this game, the more and more info is release on how it's created. Heck, it was a while until we found that one of the songs from this game obtains voice samples from movie Home Alone. (I'm not kidding)

Any fans of this game, please share this info to any of the major Nights fan groups. (Mainly because I have major troubles trying to register to any of them... can't get into any of them. lol)

[BouncekDeLemos | 82]

Small lil' ol' bump. It's been a few years, how're y'all doing?

Okay, so wanting to jump back into this as I've been randomly thinking about this again. I've been wanting to translate some of the Greek that was presented on the in-game cards, as I want to try my hand in recreating them as the Saturn, PC and PS2's textures all are pretty much the same cruddy pixel resolution.

Well I came across this: https://cohost.org/lifning/post/336431-locks-the-door-behi

Apparently, somebody that goes by "liffy" already tried their hand at it, and did a pretty dang good job as well! What's exciting is that both of our finding's kinda relate, down to us not knowing if #5 is the fool or not. But there's some differences and some things I want to redact, as well I give some cross-observations. The cards don't seem to follower one idea, but is a hybrid of other cards it seems. More on that as we go along here:

So the new list goes as follows:
#1: The Chariot card: "Death/the tower".

Liffy mentioned that the picture looks more like it should be death/chariot, and BINGO! It's indeed the Chariot's design. But Death's card is very similar too, as the Death card in Jojo holds a similar scythe. 

I don't see how the Tower fits. 

#2: The High Priestess: "The Emperor/Judgement"

So I wanted to say that I was a little wrong on this first. This was the first time I realised that whoever made these cards used more than one card as reference. The Emperor card in Jojo does explain the very similar cane/scepter. HOWEVER, the crown more matches the High Priestess IMO.

I yeah, I guess I can chalk this up to this probably being some sort of a "hybrid" card. They're both similar, both the Priestess and the Emperor have their eyes looking up.

I did mistake the cane/scepter as a building on my first look, and the translation clearly says it's the Emperor, so I'm now going with the Emperor. It makes much more sense than it being the Priestess since the Tower card shows the same Scepter. (I mean, despite the Priestess-looking crown.)

Not sure how the Judgement card fits. 

#3: The Sun: "Temperance/Strength"

I can definitely bet that this was another hybridtized idea. 

#4: The Tower "Devil/Tower"

This is turning out to be my favorite card. Like I said a few years ago, I love that it tells a story. Like the Emperor lost both his crown and scepter. "Pride before the fall" as they say. 

Yes, it's mostly "Tower", but this is yet another hybrid card. Looking at Jackle in the background, he's wearing similar clothing to the Devil in the Jojo Devil's card. 

So the Devil who wears a Priestess's crown, and holds the Emperor's cane, falling as the tower crumbles.

#5: The Fool/The Hermit/Wheel of Fortune 

Still a bit stumped on this one. Liffy could only get the "eta to lambda" parts from this card, but made a guess of Hierophant, Hanged Man, Devil and Fool. 

I still think this looks more like the Hermit, but again, it's probably a hybrid card (hence why I can't seem to find the reference), but I can see a bit of the Hanged Man in there. 

#6: The Magician "The World/The Magician"

So another hybrid? The translation was a well-educated guess, as it seems to have "The World" as part of it's text followed by "The Magician".

The World is a totally different card, the image depicted is from The Magician.

---------------

So that's it for now! 

I might edit this late for clarification, my thoughts are all scrambled on this as most of this I found out on the fly as I was writing it! lol

Also, it's around 4 AM here, I might go back to this with a fresh mind and re-edit some things. So glad to see this game still being researched on.

Edited March 28 by BouncekDeLemos

[NostalgicMachine | 233]

I have no idea about these connections, all I know is I LOVED Nights into Dreams on The Saturn back in the day! 

[koifish | 555]

Have you cross-referenced these pictures against other tarot card sets? Frankly I struggle to see the connection on several of these being the fact that they're presenting the same base idea, and that the frame around the cars is the same. If you could demonstrate that the shared tropes were unique to these two sets and that they wouldn't have been typical or common in tarot sets available in the 80s and 90s, or if you could get some sort of affirmation from the nights artist, then I'd be more inclined to believe it. Otherwise it's more likely to me that the cards were modeled after similar motifs and depict the same subjects than it was an intentional homage.

[BouncekDeLemos | 82]

14 hours ago, koifish said:

Have you cross-referenced these pictures against other tarot card sets? Frankly I struggle to see the connection on several of these being the fact that they're presenting the same base idea, and that the frame around the cars is the same. If you could demonstrate that the shared tropes were unique to these two sets and that they wouldn't have been typical or common in tarot sets available in the 80s and 90s, or if you could get some sort of affirmation from the nights artist, then I'd be more inclined to believe it. Otherwise it's more likely to me that the cards were modeled after similar motifs and depict the same subjects than it was an intentional homage.

Awesome questions!

As I stated about three years ago, no other card that I've seen has used the same frame, which led me to the Jojo cards that had a very common base style that seems to've been drawn from. No other card after the fact that I've seen had any similarities, but that's not to say any weren't used as a sort of reference, due to the nature of some artistic liberties taken on a few of these cards alone.

Chariot, Sun and Magician uniquely and visually matches the reference points more clearly than the others, not just the boarders but the style and symmetry. Whether they relate or not, the biggest liberty seems to be taken when naming each card two other card names in Greek.

Let it be known (and I should have prefaced this 3 years ago... I'm an idiot), that a lot of my findings and conclusions are 100% speculative observations based on my own biased experiences as an artist rather than any conclusive conformations. Conjecture at it's finest. lol If I mislead anyone here thinking these were straight facts, I appologize. Unless I cite a reference, these will remain speculative.

You have made a great valid point on affirming! I really wish I knew the original artist to help both confirm and state anything that I've found to be fact or not--or even expounded upon. Maybe it's something I should look into?

Also, any flawed logic I may bestow (then or now) could be attributed to me not going to bed at a reasonable hour. Again, I'm an idiot.  But I hope I've answered or addressed any concerns, and if not I appologize for that as well.

I'm hoping people would find this all interesting at least!

 

 

18 hours ago, NostalgicMachine said:

I have no idea about these connections, all I know is I LOVED Nights into Dreams on The Saturn back in the day! 

Same! Still my all-time favorite game! 

Edited March 29 by BouncekDeLemos