Level99

HA are down bad auctioning this trash lol. I guess they're hoping to atrract new customers but it clearly isn't working.

4 hours ago, FenrirZero said:

Not to burst your bubble, but CGA has a long history of grading fakes, foreign rereleases, etc. as either authentic or original releases. With the last one I heard of being that fake Pokémon Pearl with the wrong font for the "E" grade. Which is why I would rely on GoCollect a community that'll help me with any pre-graded CIBs first. With grading being for the graders simply because even respectable auction houses like Sotheby's, and Japanese resellers like Mandarake have graders.

Interesting, I guess because they have been doing it the longest so they have a long record of these "mistakes" (hopefully) occurring? or the graders just aren't good enough? These questions needs to be addressed if they want this hobby/market to grow and have some substance. Or, it will continue to being niche and no need for all the useless marketing CGC and WATA are doing, because no one is being transparent unfortunately. It seems it's always going to be a word of mouth kinda trust, instead of a proccess that is well established that normal customers can believe in. I do try and make sure that what I'm buying is legit, I'm trying to learn whenever I have the time. But for new people, it's going to be hard to pick up these things from day one. And I was one... kinda still tbh...

5 hours ago, inasuma said:

Want to add some addition info I’ve learned about VGA cases, and will update the OP as well.

as it turns out, the small notches on the bottom and top of vga cases (while looking at the front) are a slight security/tamper evidence measure. Basically trying to slice the bottom off in some way is almost guaranteed to eat through part of that notch, and if the bottom is placed back on, even perfectly, it’ll still look “off.”

there are other security features as well but I wouldn’t be able to show it. But basically the acrylic was produced a certain way that if you replaced any part of the case or lost some of the material while attempting to open a holder, it would be obvious at least to vga that tampering occurred.

it seems as though I was wrong about the holders!

Please, it would be great to include pictures of these notches. Great new info to learn. Thanks!

9 hours ago, MrWunderful said:

Do you have the info of people at VGA who have been doing this for years? Would love to hear their names and experience. 
 

Yeah, I mean nobody will question it when you sell it again if its slabbed. Well maybe the people that spot the graded fakes. Didn’t wata just grade a fake of one of the most reproduced tg-16 games?
edit-  (Happened a while ago, I recently saw video)

 

 

I agree you can always open it up.With VGA you can re-use the case even but this makes no sense:

Step 1- Pay $$$ to make games un-usable

Step 2- spend time and energy, and possibly damage to item to make useable

Step 3- profit

 

I bring it up, because when discussing graded games, it’s fun to tell people that they paid extra money to have their game graded and make it not (immediately) useable and now it’s worth actually less based on recent heritage auctions. My graded games too! I missed out on 100k by not selling at the peak. Oh well. 

Unfortunately I do not, but I agree with you. Every grading company should be transparent. All I know is that VGA has been in the market for years before WATA and CGC. And many collectors +rep them, and their stuff used to sell at reasonable prices... Well, until WATA and HA did their awful plot to pump the market and made almost everyone out of this hobby hates grading, even though its been a thing since the 2000s.

Hence why I said almost no one sends their games for grading with the intention of using it in the future. I don't care what anyone decides to do with it, but I can understand someone who loves the game so much and want an extra copy to preserve and keep clean on a shelf. 

I feel bad for the people that paid 100s of thousands on games that are clearly mass produced. WATA and HA tricked them into thinking that Mario 64 is actually rare LOL. What's even worse, is they tried to do the same with the recent CGC Zelda, but thank god no one fell for it. This sucks, and I don't blame people hating on WATA for what they did. And oh boy, not gonna mention resellers and flippers, they're still trying to squeeze every penny from people, but I'm so happy to see games sitting for years without any buyers. What's amazing to me, is that some of them still grade mass produced modern games, with avaerage grades, for a ridiculous fee. Like you can tell they don't know what they're doing.

2 hours ago, MrWunderful said:

All grading is inherently subjective, so of course the differences are going to be apparent. Its someone deciding the condition of something based on their personal feelings. Thats one of the main problems with Grading. 
 

Don’t mistake me for a Wata apologist, as they have their own issues. As soon as they started grading anything other than sealed, it shows they don’t actually care about the community and car far more about turning out as many slabs as possible. 
 

You don’t have to believe anything I say, so it doesnt matter if you don’t trust Wata or not. You obviously trust them enough to send them money to get games graded.  Funny how people “know” their grading is inconsistent, but still send their games in (people in general, not you). Hard to pass up on that sweet, sweet flipper cash

 

PS. Saying an argument is “stupid” doesn’t make it less true. Grading a cart only game makes it useless (technically CIB/sealed too), outside of perceived collector value. Its irrelevant if you have flashcarts, emulators, etc. 

 

 

 

With so many resealed/fake/repro games/cases/manuals out there, I can appreciate grading. I get to have the opinion of people that have been doing this for years, and know the differences between a fake and an original. I don't have time to learn all this stuff. At the end of the day, it all comes down to trust and reputation. And I agree, grading is subjective. As long as I have peace of mind that the game is authentic and well preserved, I'm good. 

Well yeah of course it's not going to be playable when its slabbed, so why bring it up? lets be real here, no one is sending a game for grading with an intention of playing it the first place. That also doesn't make it "useless". You can always break that sucker up and play it if you want, its still the same game.

1 hour ago, mlbfan10 said:

Any time I hear of a fake VGA game, I immediately think of the Halo CE black label reseals they graded (to provide an example). VGA was my go to for a long time but with competition they have not kept up with the curve. WATA is my favorite with CGC in 2nd and VGA all the way down to the 3rd. 

Fair enough. As far of the mistake of grading a fake game, WATA did the same, and CGC will do as well I'm pretty sure. So that is not enough of a reason to make me want to stop using them.

I prefer them because of their case look, label, grading scale, and the fact that they grade consoles and accoserise (I like to keep everything unified if that make sence). 

I honestly was waiting for CGC to surprise me, but I was disappointed with their ugly label, and them only grading NA games.

2 hours ago, MrWunderful said:

I think you are confusing your personal experiences and opinions with facts. Just because you personally didn’t see something, doesn’t mean it doesn't exist.  
 

If you are interested, please google “VGA graded fake game” to see examples. It has been discussed and documented quite a bit. 
 

VGA cased games are only sealed with a cyanoacrylate on the bottom. With the right solvent, it can be opened and resealed.  Im not saying that it has ACTUALLY happened, but I have proven it to be true. The other two companies at least have a way to prove their cases have been opened, as tamper evidence. 
 

I got the info about VGA from the guys that started Wata, in an interview that I did with them prior to starting the company. Believe me or not, the other guys still kicking around here that interviewed with them might have heard the same thing. 
 

Last thought- just because someone has done it for a long time, doesn’t mean its correct. VGA is silent about their grading criteria , and who their graders are. They have proven to be inconsistent with grading (again, see google). 
 

In the end though, do what you want with your stuff. If you want to pay a company to make your game unplayable, and most likely be worth less than what you paid for it by slabbing it, be my guest
 

 

 

Everything I said was from my personal experiance with owning from all 3 companies. I didn't confuse anything with facts. At the end of the day I'm here to learn.

As I said, all companies have flaws, and everyone make mistakes. WATA just graded a rom hack, and they got exposed then apologized and said they're not doing it again. I'm pretty sure CGC will make mistakes down the road as well. These things happen, so it makes all 3 of them equal in that regard.

I absolutely have no idea about the tampering/security issues with VGA. As I said, never heard anything bad about it, so I will take your word for it and keep that in mind.

Wata is a competitor, so why should I believe anything from them about OTHER competitors? I need something to come out from VGA themselves. Yes, them not caring about releasing pop reports, have a dated website and not engaging on social media marketing could be an indications of selling out. I honestly don't know... If it's true, then I'm sure they will be bought just like Collectors Universe buying WATA.

WATA is inconsistent as well, espically with their seal grades. So many people have sent and re-sent their games and got different grades. That has been known since froever. Also, a lot of their grades are confusing. Sometimes you see a A+ seal grade on a B seal, or an A++ on a A+ and so on sometimes you can't even tell the difference!!!... I don't know anything about the graders, but I heard that they're reputable. WATA and CGC are known because of the marketing they did, and they're also reputable.

I only own 3 so far, and not planning on passing 6, 2 left to be graded + a console. I only grade the rare items I own. I know this stuff will outlive me anyways, so I'm only slabbing them cause I want to keep them clean and protected. Also a second opinion on authenticity won't hurt. And don't worry, I have a million ways to play the game, so this unplayable-playable argument is stupid. 

1 hour ago, MrWunderful said:

Except vga cases can be opened and resealed and have zero security. I did it myself for proof.
 

Do they even use archival plastic?  

Who are their graders and why should I trust their grades? At least the folks at Wata and cgc have some game and grading provenance.
 

They owners of VGA have been clear they don’t even want the business anymore.
 

But hey, do what you want with your money. 

Never tried to break one myself, nor did I hear about anyone buying a fake resealed VGA game. I don't know about what you said 100%, but keep in mind they have been grading toys and video games for over a decade (please, correct me if I'm wong). So, there would be at least a story of someone buying a fake VGA game. If there is, I'm interested in hearing about it.

Not saying that VGA is perfect. Every one of these 3 have their own flaws. There is a video on youtube of a guy receiving his game in a different conditin of what he sent 

CGC have some bad rep as well. There are stories of some graders giving high grades for their friends...

As for VGA cases, here are some info from their website:

On 1/4/2023 at 5:40 AM, MrWunderful said:

@inasuma I appreciate you showing the specifics, like the tamper status. 
 

I like CGCs design, and the ultrasonic welding. That will be very difficult to forge or replace the inside. So much to the point that it most likely isnt worth it. Top grading label visibility is cool and I think the only one of the bunch. 
 

I liked Wata’s tamper design, and over all case “look” but it isnt that practical to store.  It wastes a lot of space when next to each other on a shelf.  I still am a big fan of their tamper proof design and label tech, it makes it impossible to forge. 
 

Crazy how VGA is even still around,  their case is garbage and they have zero visibility to graders/ grading process (unless I missed something). I think they are only still around to pick up wata’s scraps they couldn't get too, but have a feeling  CGC will be the nail in their coffin. 

When I first got into graded games, I went with WATA, because of how popular they got amongst collectors, and I liked their label at first. Until I bought my first VGA graded game. For me the difference was clear, and made me sell all my WATA games. 

I felt that WATA rushed everything. I was seeing dust inside, with a bit of humidity. The cases look ugly and way too bulky/big with bubbles inside the acrylic. The label's corners were bent and doesn't look clean. 

On the other hand, I was really impressed with VGA. Although the label is simple, but it's well designed and looks much better. Straight to the point without any unnesseary information. The cases are sleek and clean. Looks so much better displayed on a shelf. Also, the fact that they grade consoles and accessories is a plus. I turst them more in terms of longevity, since they've been in the market for long, so the cases seems to be holding up good for all these years.

CGC however, their cases are clean and well designed, but the label man... looks stright out of a 90s law firm document or something. Also, I really dislike the comic book grading scale, I feel it doesn't work well with games. 

I don't agree that VGA is "garbage", I think they're the best option out of the "big" three. Haven't really tried any of the European companies like UKG or Pixel Grading, but it looks like both got inspired by VGA in terms of case design, which is good.

1 hour ago, retro.magnus said:

I wholeheartedly disagree with you. I have won quite a few auctions in the past 4-6 months on graded games at pretty cheap prices. Some for just the cost of grading them.. 

Was it a known title? or one of those modern (and sometime retro) games that no one heard/care about? I saw a VGA 90+ Octodad on the PS Vita go for about $70 on CL. My point is that many games, sold on both HA and CL end up listed on eBay for double the price. Many of them sold for a premium too, so you either accept the loss, enter a bidding war with a reseller but you end up overpaying, or wait for it to pop up on eBay for double the price. 

I'm not against anyone trying to make money, but it sucks when you end up losing a bid, then realize that a reseller (who probably never cared about the game to begin with) listing it on eBay for a ridiculous fee. 

9 hours ago, inasuma said:

probably no updates because they revealed them way too soon because they're trying to compete with cgc / satiate graded collectors who've been frustrated by wata's case for years (switch games in wata cases are comically oversized).

it probably isn't clear by my message but i was using hyperbole.

anyway it's well known at this point that as speculators left, prices and activity would drop, and i'm here for it so i can snatch up <$150 high grade late retro/modern titles.

Unfortunately not for me, because there are still some active annoying resellers. Can't get any good deal on auctions because of these parasites. I swear almost all games I wanted I see them listed 2 weeks after on eBay double the price. What's more annoying is that the games sits for years without any buyers, and these parasites still buy more. Like, just fuck off already and go leech somewhere else.

7 hours ago, inasuma said:

update: turbo takes 3 weeks

the market is dead

Why are people surprised by this?

It's all because of these moron "inverstors and resellers" who started mass grading modern games, and pulling/digging factory sealed packs and old new stock from basements and storges. 

Then they wonder why VGA hasn't done any marketing and aren't interested in the madness Wata and CGC are doing. This market is so niche and was growing slowly until these "inverstors" came in to try and get every last penny from people being lokced down in their houses lol. 

Hopefully, submission prices continue to go down.