karljobst

19 minutes ago, ExplodedHamster said:

@karljobstExhibit A as to what was taken from your first video and why the population report is and will continue to be important. It puts a significant hole in these kinds of theories, not that anyone will really care I suppose lol. There is a difference between “it’s all a scam” (again going back to your icon, which says SCAM in big red letters next to a verifiably real sale) and “people in X positions are inappropriately profiting.” It’s nuanced, but significant. As I mentioned, I don’t necessarily agree with all your arguments on the latter, but I definitely understand the conversation more. I think you do as well, as your comments here and elsewhere indicate. 

You can also, of course, see the element of populism and class warfare. It’s always made me uncomfortable on these forums, well before I ever bought a sealed game or owned a higher end item. It drove a lot people away from the old NA tbh. Reminds me of raucous political rallies, which are not really my thing.

I agree that my first video sold that the entire market was a scam etc. I don't believe that to be the case now (though I totally did at the time). I wonder though if I could have done the video a different way and gotten a similar response. I think I could have, and if I were to do it again I'd focus way more on just the select few people who I take issue with.

Also side note. The only reason I even mentioned NA, or the database was because of Jeff Meyer's connection with Wata. I honestly don't care that much about what happened to NA. Things are just escalating now because Jeff totally deflected that point from the first video so I felt compelled to bring it up again.

54 minutes ago, ExplodedHamster said:

Isn't partnering with an auction company the exact way in which a new grading company would prove the concept and product? I think it's exactly how I'd wager most business owners would want to start, at least. I also think a problem you are also overlooking with VGA, beyond the fact they would not financially guarantee their accuracy or tamper proof cases, is the scale is just not something that is standard across collectibles, and it's not very, for lack of a better term, "exciting." Having near perfect games get an 85+ doesn't do it for a lot of people. And it's not really a changeable thing, given there was already a decade of games being encased. 

From everything I've heard and seen I totally believe that Wata produces a better product. However, the first and foremost job of a grading company is to provide accurate and consistent gradings. I don't believe an auction house like Heritage would or should partner with a brand new grading company that had no track record. It just makes absolutely no sense. At best, HA should have waited for a couple of years to establish that Wata were legit and it had credibility.

As experts you might be able to tell that a case is good and is a better product, but I don't think that's enough to warrant this relationship unless there was something less than reputable going on. When you partner this with the conflicts of interest, lying to the public, Halperin's personal stake, I just can't believe this is anything other than people with power using their own companies as tool for there own profit.

26 minutes ago, jonebone said:

Roger that, I'll concede you are more of an expert than me in the conflict of interest arena, but you aren't a full legal expert or you wouldn't have had to bring in an outside source.  

She also uses extremely soft language in her responses, indicating that the probable cause is there to potentially raise legality disputes, but ultimately a judge could preside either way and the outcome is not predetermined.

BTW, full transparency. After my first video I received messages from people telling me about much worse things than I bring up in the video. I don't talk about them because they are confidential and also because I can't prove them. But some of the characters I talk about in the video I go a bit hard on because there are other things I know (that you wouldn't get just from the video itself).

I totally get that sometimes I say things that seem like complete assumptions but generally they are based on testimony I have, I just don't expressly mention it. I do strongly believe that people such as Halperin helped create Wata for direct personal gain. And I feel like that's why these investments weren't made public when they legally should have been.

1 minute ago, MinusWorlds said:

I get it man. I do. And like I said, I agree.
 

Seth would have anyone believe I’m a greedy monster, sorry jackal, because I sell games. The truth of the matter is I’m a collector that truly cares about this hobby. I built a business around the hobby I love because I saw an opportunity. But, I care about this hobby much more than I should and I care about integrity, honest practices, and ethics. 
 

I think we’ll get to a much better place collectively through things like your videos, pop reports, disclosure, and transparency. Anyone doing it for the passion should want that. 

The one thing in my video that I actually would like your opinion on, is what I say at the end about these investors only buying the rating. I have a feeling there will be something that I'm missing, but what's your opinion on the VGA mario selling for $240k, vs the Wata one for $800k.

7 minutes ago, jonebone said:

Roger that, I'll concede you are more of an expert than me in the conflict of interest arena, but you aren't a full legal expert or you wouldn't have had to bring in an outside source.  

She also uses extremely soft language in her responses, indicating that the probable cause is there to potentially raise legality disputes, but ultimately a judge could preside either way and the outcome is not predetermined.

I didn't have to bring in an outside source. I did not dictate or have any control over what she said. I gave her the info and asked for her opinion. This was done just to see if I was completely wrong and to get a 2nd opinion. But lawyers aren't experts in everything, and when it comes to these matters they will look at the same resources and statutes anyone else would. I didn't rely on anything she said, it was really a separate thing just to see what a lawyer would say.

I still have my own opinion based on my experience as an influencer and the fact that I've been tracking these issues for years.

3 minutes ago, MinusWorlds said:

It’s like we’re saying the same words, at the same time.

Btw, since our conversation I have become more open and positive with the market in general. But on the flipside since then I have become much more negative about Wata and Heritage (especially in the formative periods).

13 minutes ago, MinusWorlds said:

Karl,

I don’t want to go down the rabbit hole too much on some of this, but Jonas (jonebone) does bring up some fair points. He’s also one of the most educated and knowledgeable collectors in our hobby. He has also been critical of Wata when he has issue with some of their practices. So he’s def not a Wata lemming either. 
 

I do agree that NA was first and foremost a forum/marketplace. I think you would have a very difficult time getting any of the regulars there to state otherwise. I 100% agree the data is valuable and it’s a shame it’s mostly unusable now, but it was never a pricing guide tool or a database first and foremost.  Heck, Jonas and I and many others poured hours upon hours into creating educational content there. We were gutted too. 
 

I also noticed the lawyer in your video uses a lot of words like “maybe, possibly, could have” etc. That’s hardly saying there were 100% FTC violations. I totally get the desire to shed light on the situation, but we’re a long way from subpoenas and hearings. 
 

I applaud you for trying to get it right. I do. I’ve told you that before, but you also need to understand that even “little” inaccuracies to those who built this hobby and live it everyday and know all the minute details are going to take exception to incorrect statements. No matter how small they seem to be. 
 

 

The NA conversation arose only in this 2nd video because Jeff lied about what NA was in response to my first video. The point of the statement wasn't to label NA as this or that, but to illustrate that Jeff was being deceptive. NA was a forum, marketplace and a database. From what my research established, NA was created as a database. Then over time the forum grew. However I still see the website as a database, with a forum feature. Either way, I don't really care about arguing about those details because they are so irrelevant to anything. The database is gone, Jeff completely misdirected in his response. I believe he was deceptive.

I've spoken with many lawyers, there very rarely speak concretely. They will say "A court might find this" etc. I'm pretty strong in my own opinion on this one either way.

If I dismiss inaccuracies (which there will be, you have more expertise than me) it isn't because I disagree. It's just because I find it not impactful to my overall message in the video. I tried to stay more away from the collecting side in this video and focus more on just the marketing. But I did throw in my own opinion at the end for sure, which I know some collectors will disagree with.

8 minutes ago, jonebone said:

I appreciate the response at least.  Let me clarify I'm not giving them a free pass or anything, I'm just not a lawyer and not qualified to speak on any of that.  But on the flipside, when you use fallacies in your logic or borderline lies, then that seems to be slander and libel, which civil lawyers could go after.  I'm all about transparency and facts, not as much about speculative rambling.  I appreciate factual points you have made, not so much the opinionated interjections.

Don't want to go tit for tat with you, so just a couple minor comments.  I had 25,000+ posts at NA and 1,000+ transactions, was easily in the top 5 on each category and a part of me died when that website went down.  Other than other mods or Dain himself, losing that site affected me as bad as anyone.  So yes, please forgive me when some youtuber waltzes in and tells me what that site was meant to me.  

Personal opinion, if you want to get to the bottom of something then you delay a video until you have spoken to the proper parties.  Not take a paycheck from a sponsor to meet a deadline.  Again, if you want to get some real informed opinions on something, talk to the people who are plugged in.  You seem dismissive of the points I have made, but to each their own and your bias is clouding your judgement as well.  I do admit that have bias from being involved in graded games, yet I collect VGA and Wata both (so I am not affiliated with one company), and I've been doing this for 13+ years with roots in ungraded collecting.  So I'm certainly not as biased as someone who only does graded, someone who only does Wata, or someone who just showed up in the last 2 years with no recollection of times past.

You are the expert when it comes to NA. You are the expert when it comes to collecting.

When it comes to marketing, endorser obligations. I am an expert. And on top of that, I've spoken with lawyers about it and done a lot of research. When it comes to my analysis on the legality of Wata and Heritage's actions I'm very confident. I'm happy to concede any less important point (i.e What NA was) because ultimately I don't really care about that. I brought it up in the video because I believe that Jeff was lying, and it was just to point that out.

2 minutes ago, jonebone said:

I appreciate the response at least.  Let me clarify I'm not giving them a free pass or anything, I'm just not a lawyer and not qualified to speak on any of that.  But on the flipside, when you use fallacies in your logic or borderline lies, then that seems to be slander and libel, which civil lawyers could go after.  I'm all about transparency and facts, not as much about speculative rambling.  I appreciate factual points you have made, not so much the opinionated interjections.

Don't want to go tit for tat with you, so just a couple minor comments.  I had 25,000+ posts at NA and 1,000+ transactions, was easily in the top 5 on each category and a part of me died when that website went down.  Other than other mods or Dain himself, losing that site affected me as bad as anyone.  So yes, please forgive me when some youtuber waltzes in and tells me what that site was meant to me.  

Personal opinion, if you want to get to the bottom of something then you delay a video until you have spoken to the proper parties.  Not take a paycheck from a sponsor to meet a deadline.  Again, if you want to get some real informed opinions on something, talk to the people who are plugged in.  You seem dismissive of the points I have made, but to each their own and your bias is clouding your judgement as well.  I do admit that have bias from being involved in graded games, yet I collect VGA and Wata both (so I am not affiliated with one company), and I've been doing this for 13+ years with roots in ungraded collecting.  So I'm certainly not as biased as someone who only does graded, someone who only does Wata, or someone who just showed up in the last 2 years with no recollection of times past.

I am dismissive of your points because they are irrelevant in relation to the legality of Wata's actions. It doesn't matter if Kahn valued the game in the millions (which he did) or in the hundreds of thousands. Doing it for investors in his company without disclosing that is illegal.

Wata's actions in relation to the Carolina Collection was illegal. I don't need to speak to Jeff about that. Me speaking to Jeff is a courtesy, not a requirement for me 'getting to the bottom' of anything. 

In my opinion the difference between you and I is that I'm focusing on companies breaking the law, and your focusing on quibbling over the fact that I haven't spoken with Jeff Meyer, or whether or not Nintendoage was a forum or a database.

22 minutes ago, jonebone said:

Honest question here, are you actually trying to get to the bottom of anything or just looking to attack the parties involved? Because you are so pointedly biased in many of your accusations that it's a bit hard to watch.  Let me break down a few of the obvious ones.

Point 1) Valuing 100k Mario, Around 17:00.  You said the game sold for $100k and 10 days later Deniz valued it at $3.21M.  He certainly didn't, he just speculated that future values could hit that range based on an analogy of collectability, rarity and desirability.  You  immediately lead into Pawn Stars where he put a value of $300-$350k on it, so obviously you knew you embellished with your original comment.  And any of us in the market knew it had at least doubled by then regardless, so $200-$250k was certainly fair and reasonable.  So for one, he's not lying, it's just that you have taken offense to him being a value spokesperson based on his connections.  Yet you go here and are basically outright lying with the word selection that you so carefully chose I assume.

Point 2) NintendoAge, Around 27:30.  Who are you to know anything about NintendoAge?  It was absolutely a forum and marketplace first and foremost.  It had origins as a database but the daily active users (who which donated to the site for the most part, myself included), were there for forums and Buy / Sell / Trade.  A deal posted there was gone in minutes, yet we had to beg for volunteers to upload into the database.  We're not going to split hairs about what percentage of visitors spent there time where, but it absolutely was the socially connected marketplace for retro gaming. Other sites like DigitPress had rarity guides and bare bones databases too, it wasn't NintendoAge exclusive.  Though NA became the premier database site, it was not that feature driving daily traffic.

Point 3) Jeff Reaching Out, Around 28:45. You've made time to talk to all of these various social media personalities and youtubers, yet you can't make time to talk to the guy you're accusing over the last 3 months? When he's making himself available to you? Are you kidding me?  You have so many pointed comments and accusations toward him, yet haven't spoken to him, but have made plenty of time to gossip with various internet personalities.  This tells me you have little interest in solving anything, and more interest in blasting the people you've targeted.

Point 4) HA Wata Partnership instead of VGA, Various Times. The key factor you seem to miss is that the Wata cases were designed as tamperproof where VGA is not.  And I say that as a guy with 150+ VGA games.  I think the tamper argument probably affects .01% of VGA games and is more of a scapegoat scare tactic, but it is a valid criticism if you have a lot of money and no eye for authenticity.  Then you want to know you are buying an authentic product and a tamperproof case is a must.  Furthermore, anyone plugged into the scene knows that Deniz and Ken were experts in variants and NES collecting especially, much more so than VGA.  VGA was first to market and are definitely experts, but they have let fakes slip through the cracks and have made absolutely zero effort to innovate or market their product until recently.  Wata capitalized on that, took the marketing to a new level, made a better and more tamper proof case, and that was the motivating factor between getting their products to market at an auction house while VGA could not.  You can argue that it's money which is definitely a contributing factor, but that was not the causation as you imply.  Same applies to collecting.  Ask any collector what their motivating factor is and it's usually owning the nostalgic end items or thrill of the hunt.  You can argue that money is a contributing factor, but it's not the driving force or you'd just trade stocks / crypto / etc. to make money.  It's the product and nostalgia that you love, and here it was the tamper proof case that made HA align with Wata over VGA.

As someone who is plugged in all over the scene with experience all over, glad to answer any genuine questions you have that aren't just targeted accusations.

I do believe your bias is clouding your judgement here. You completely overlook all of the obvious illegal activity and try to scrape the barrel of potential small inconsistencies with what I'm saying. Totally ignoring the point of the video. But I'll address some of these things.

1) Kahn did imply the value of the was in the millions. On pawn stars he did not value the game at $300k, he said there were turned down offers of that much (implying the value is higher) and the value 'had no ceiling'. Besides this, what he did was illegal. But in your eyes for some reason the exact dollar amount he put on it is more important than the deceptive marketing.

2) Other users and contributors to NA disagree with you. NA was set up as a database. The forum evolved and grew over time. It seems you have more issue with my lack of expertise rather than Meyer's obvious lies about what NA was.

3) I emailed Jeff a couple of weeks ago to try and meet up. He was on holiday all week and by the time he was available it was too late. I did make an effort to catch up. My effort was late, but it was there and we would have caught up if he was available. I can't 'solve' anything. I am not the FTC, or the SEC. What I am supposed to 'solve' in your opinion? It's not my responsibility, nor my duty to solve anything. I'm calling out illegal and unethical practices. Jeff talking to me now does nothing to undo any federal regulation breaches that happened in the past.

4) Heritage and Wata had an agreement upon Wata's launch. Whatever you're talking about in regards to Wata 'capitalising' on anything has no bearing. Heritage aligned with a grading company that had no history, or track record of grading games in the market. And Halperin was an investor, and that relationship was never disclosed. I just don't believe your story. Even if your rationalisation were true (which it could be), I believe Wata would need experience in the industry to prove that the product was good over extensive testing in the actual market before its credibility could be established. And not just the case, but their rating consistency and ability to run a business well.

You accuse me of just making targeted accusations, which is true because obviously I care about the illegal practices of these companies and that's the entire point of the video. But on the flipside, you don't seem to care at all about that, and just want to defend them over irrelevant, minute details.

2 minutes ago, Gulag Joe said:

This topic is by far the most reach you've ever had out of any video you've ever made. Who's sponsoring you to say these things about Wata?

My Wata video is my 17th most viewed video. Other videos have had far more reach, even in terms of gaming news. You don't understand how youtubers derive income from youtube evidently. I'd make far more money making several shorter videos each with sponsors than devoting a lot of time on one shorter video. Sponsors have no creative control over my videos at all, aside from what date range they can be released in.

4 hours ago, ExplodedHamster said:

Karl coulda pushed it back a few days and edited the pop report part, but my guess is it’s not really something he wants to highlight because it undercuts some of his prior comments.
 

Unfortunately the video had to come out today because of sponsor obligations. Though I would have loved to talk more about the population report release as IMO it's likely a result (at least in part) to the public's reaction to my first video. I'm not sure how it would undercut anything I said. 

I would celebrate and encourage any positive actions.

https://goldinauctions.com/1996_N64_Nintendo_64__USA___Super_Mario_64__Sealed-LOT107330.aspx

Do these types of auctions usually see the greatest activity at the beginning? Or will we see a surge right before it ends?

Also noticing the huge discrepancy with the Wata and VGA sm64's, with the VGA version still sitting at minimum bid. 

8 minutes ago, CodysGameRoom said:

Care to link?

https://sethabramson.substack.com/p/video-game-grading-house-wata-told

Interested in hearing everyone's thoughts

Thanks for the info. I will have to ask Jeff why the Database couldn't be maintained. I've read the announcements but they all relate to the forum and nothing is said at all about everything else on the website.

6 minutes ago, guillavoie said:

Indeed, the idea that NA was nuked instantly from the moment it was bought by Jeff is nonsensical. It took well over a year for the forum to disappear, and it wasn't because Jeff deleted it, the server tech expired by a precise date (something like that, Gloves could explain further). His plan to preserve the forum was a joke, but still, all the threads are still searchable somehow in the gocollect version of it, though largely chaotic to navigate.

The database was a very useful tool, but honestly, it had absolutely no utility regarding gathering any info on the sealed market.

I would like to find out what expired. All websites need to be maintained, if you purchase it you'll also need to consistently renew licences, hosting etc. Not doing so and just letting something lapse so the website goes offline would be seen as terminating it. I'd genuinely like to know what actually happened there.

I browsed the old website a lot through the way back machine and it seemed like the database was really the focus of the website and the forum was another section. I mean, the database is even listed first on the browse menu. Perhaps users of the forum felt like that was the key part of the website, but remember, in an investment boom you're going to have a lot of new people searching for information about games. The database is the first place they will check.

It was my understanding the database is completely gone. Am I wrong here? Is the database currently accessible through Gocollect?

Jeff Meyer has made a more detailed response - https://blog.gocollect.com/jeff-meyer-responds-to-questions-raised-by-karl-jobst-video/

He is claiming that NintendoAge was a forum. But NintendoAge was not a forum. It had a forum as a part of the website, but it was also a database to find information about nintendo games. Is it possible Jeff is completely ignorant to what he purchased? I don't know how to explain that comment. It seems deceitful. 

There are other issues that I won't bring up again here but I will definitely talk to him about when we catch up.

Just now, CIBWholesale said:

6k for MM is reasonable for 85+-90

mario 2 is common in both white seal and black seal

mario 3 is super common in white seal. very rare in 'left' bros (1st edition)

Reasonable in what sense? Reasonable for what it 'should' go for, or reasonable in the current market?

Does $6000 for Majora's Mask in that condition seem extremely cheap. Considering how much other N64 titles were going for on HA, that seems insane. Also a good condition Mario 2 went for $90k which seems really cheap as well given how much Mario 3 went for.

6 hours ago, AdamW said:

I'm not sure it's a perfect comparison, though. What really did the coin grading company in (as I understand it) is that the FTC slapped then with a requirement to include a statement with every graded coin that it had been graded loosely. This was because a key part of the case there was that coins were being over graded.

This case involves potential false advertising, not shonky grading. So as you say, if the case were made and proven (or settled) the penalty would likely be a fine, but it's hard to see how the FTC could add a requirement like the coin grading case one, because this case doesn't involve grading. In that case WATA might just decide to pay the fine and try to gut it out...

Yeah I didn't mean about extra regulation, but rather just from bad press and lack of faith from the market. There would be more repercussions than just a fine was my only point.

6 hours ago, AdamW said:

Thanks for the flag, Karl. I'd definitely agree there seems to be a case to answer there.

Edit: BTW, as a minor correction - it doesn't materially affect the case, purely for accuracy - I believe Jeff sold the CC games through certifiedlink, not HA. This is mentioned in the article.

The CC was sold through HA - https://comics.ha.com/heritage-auctions-press-releases-and-news/nintendoage-founder-s-private-collection-offered-through-heritage-auctions.s?releaseId=3744

3 minutes ago, BriGuy82 said:

It's a shame that end of the day, if all they end up with is a slap on the wrist fine it was probably still worth it for them. Halperin already went through that drill with the coin grading company. He paid his fine, and still became rich. It's good to expose these guys for the crooks that they are though. But ultimately, I feel as though the reward for them will outweigh the penalties they incur. 

Actually, NCI (Halperin's grading company) was basically destroyed. If the FTC comes down on Wata it will do major damage to them in the broader market. Especially from investors who bought Wata graded games who may have grounds to sue.

@AdamWI know you were hung up the fraud aspect so let me give you some more concrete info.

https://www.watagames.com/learn/blog/post/the-carolina-collection/ Here Wata endorses and promotes the sale of the Carolina Collection. This counts as an endorsement of a product as per FTC guideliness. The FTC has rules in relation to misleading advertisements, and there is a specific statute that is relevant here.

https://www.ftc.gov/sites/default/files/attachments/press-releases/ftc-publishes-final-guides-governing-endorsements-testimonials/091005revisedendorsementguides.pdf Statute 255.5 Disclosure of material connections. When there exists a connection between the endorser (Wata) and the seller (Jeff Meyer) of the advertised product that might materially affect the weight or credibility of the endorsement (i.e., the connection is not reasonably expected by the audience), such connection must be fully disclosed.

The connection is that Jeff Meyer is a Director of Wata games. So not only did Jeff grade his entire collection, and flip it through Heritage auctions as a Director (this needs to be investigated), but also used Wata to advertise his collection without disclosing the relationship which broke FTC guidelines in relation to a misleading endorsement. 

I believe as soon as the FTC investigates this (which they will), Wata will be facing a fine here.