blarky

If you want to keep the plastic hanger, here is what I know regarding the grading companies and how they deal with it:

Wata = folds the plastic hangers down 90 degs

CGC = folds the plastic hangers down 90 degs EXCEPT for Sega Genesis.  They have a custom well/holder for that system ONLY, which allows the hanger to stand upright.

VGA= folds the plastic hanger down 90 degrees UNLESS you ask for and pay extra for the special hangtab rail case (basically a notch cut in the top rail), which allows the hanger to stand upright:

On 1/3/2023 at 6:37 PM, dogbowl said:

I think they look great though. Wish the label would note that they are sealed.

 

Easy way to tell from a distance with VGA:  

"Pink Link" avatar background =  Sealed

"Blue Link" avatar background =  Qualified

I'm sure there are exceptions, but in general this seems to be the case.

Best guess as to what "*Factory sealed, Box opened at factory prior to sealing":

I'm assuming here that WATA has detected some type of spine or flap wear, indicating that the box has been opened.  But the seal is determined to be factory.  How can this be?  If we assume humans were boxing these games up, perhaps what happened was that the contents were incorrectly loaded (and the flap closed), but later realized this and they had to re-open the flap to finish packing properly.  There's been a few sealed NES black box games noted in the past with spine wear, but with otherwise legit factory seals.   Perhaps a similar story here.

9 minutes ago, Domuhnator said:

Just a reminder. Auction ends tonight at 10pm. You have to have a big places PRIOR to 9:30Pm eastern to be able to bid on any lots after 10PM. 

Hi, is there an official reason why Goldin employs this bidding rule?  It seems like this can only hurt the sellers, and not help in any way.  I think during the last GA video game auction, there were reports of items selling for cheaply due to bidders not being able to bid at the end because of this rule.  There's probably something I'm missing here, so just wondering what the reasoning is behind this, thanks!

1 hour ago, AnimalHouse said:

Random search on HA, I couldn't help notice how much the price drop. Kudos to the 9.8 winner.

 

Item #29033 on 10/31/21 was a Double Dragon 3, not a Dragon Warrior III  

*edit* Only reason I looked was because I thought holy crap, how did I miss that one? lol, happens to the best of us

1 minute ago, operationivy said:

The gyromites are NS, but new HT.

 

Ah ok, thanks, that makes sense.  Probably pulled from a new Deluxe Set then.  The early Deluxe sets had the sticker sealed gyros and DH's... later ones excluded the sticker seals.

4 hours ago, inasuma said:

wtf there's a vga 90 hangtab metroid out there? 

Yes

Here is the WATA black box data, sorted by Total # of sealed games per title, smallest to largest.   

Also split out are the variants for each title (sticker sealed, hangtab, round/oval SOQ).  For simplicity's sake, I added matte and gloss stickers together, non-revA and revA for all Round SOQ, and R and TM for all Oval SOQ.

Super Mario Bros is by far the largest pop total.  But most of them (128/157) are Oval (white) seal versions.  Only 29/157 are Round SOQ or earlier.

There are 29 sticker sealed games here total, but due to social media postings, we know a good number of these were VGA crossovers (I'd wager at least half them, at the moment).

Minor notes:  DK Jr and Soccer only had 1 entry, so it didn't say the variant.  The Soccer was posted on social media and we know it's a sticker seal.  I don't know the DK Jr but assuming it's a Hangtab.  Tennis also shows a duplicate variant row for "Rev-A, Round SOQ", not sure if that's a mistake or not.  Gyromite also shows a regular "Hangtab" entry, which is confusing.  From what we know, this game is only possible to be sealed with a sticker seal.  So having just a stand-alone "Hangtab" entry indicates a sealed Gryomite that isn't a sticker seal... probably a mistake though *edit* not a mistake, these were NS but new HT, probably from a later deluxe set.

46 minutes ago, RETRO said:

I know you're being sarcastic, and rightly so, but we have to stop saying, "There are only..."

This is 36 months of WATA data. VGA will be releasing a pop report from 13 years—10 of which they operated during without competition—meaning that their volume per annum for each title should be higher than WATA operating with competition across the three years since 2018.

If WATA graded 16 "left bro" SMB3s in 36 months, we can expect there to be about 64 from VGA and 80 total—at a minimum. The numbers could in fact be 100+ and 116+. So we might expect, in a decade, for there to be 150 to 250 sealed and graded "left bro" SMB3 variants.

You know how many people in the world have demonstrated that they care about this variant in the 15 years they've now had to express that care? Way under 100.

If and when the VGA pop reports are released, don't get your hopes up for accurate variant information.

In the early days, the labels really only chronicled "white" seals (ie. oval seal), vs "black/silver/gold" (for the older circular seals).  They then later added "cardboard hangtab" as an extra variant for some of the black box games.  There  are a few other bits of variant info they added in later years ("non revA" for example).  The labels are also notorious for having incorrect info (incorrectly labeling black seal as a white seal for example).   I'm honestly not sure if they even differentiated between left and right bros for SMB3.

Don't get me wrong, the data will be extremely valuable still.  It's just that you'll need to understand some of it was "early / wild west days", so you'll have to live with somewhat rocky variant info.

19 minutes ago, CIBWholesale said:

what's the grade? it's not the only graded copy

It's the same one in the wata list, 7.0.  Seal grade was 'A'

Ah, so it's not a crossover from yours then, so yes.

6 minutes ago, Foochie776 said:

1 soccer. Wow. 
 

It's a sticker sealed copy too.  I only know because it was posted on instagram.  There isn't a little "+" sign drop down to display the sub-category, so it's not obvious otherwise (I guess since it was the only graded copy)

On 11/14/2021 at 6:59 PM, Gulag Joe said:

The VGA submission process is tedious and I do wonder how often people miscalculate, apply the wrong codes, etc and how much time VGA spends correcting those issues through customer service. The process puts a lot of burden on the customer when it's almost the year 2022 and all of that could be simplified with a couple hundred bucks to a semi-phenomenal web designer.

I've thought about this a lot too, and I can only come to one conclusion:  up until now, there's been enough submissions to VGA to meet their grading capacity.  And if their "queue" is basically full, they haven't felt the need to upgrade the user submission experience.......ever! 

There's been at least one MAJOR customer to VGA for last decade, who probably by himself contributes a big part of their order queue.  And then add in other old timers who already know the quirky submission process... there's been plenty of business without having to sweat about improving the website.  

This may change soon though, as they state on their website that they

• "...have made significant progress in the last month, processing approximately 20% of our remining backlog of Express and Economy tier submissions. Additionally, we anticipate that our current physical expansion will be completed by next week, nearly doubling our existing casing and grading areas to allow for higher volumes and more employees."

So this means that they now have the capacity to grade more games faster, and this possibly incentives them to upgrade the website and user submission experience.

We've been teased about this and population reports for years now.  Their latest blurb on the website reads,

• "We are also nearing the final stages of designing and testing our new website to improve every facet of the customer experience. Initially our new site will offer more information, an improved on-line store, and population reports. Subsequent website additions will include an improved customer service interface and a streamlined submission process. "

We will see what happens. This all sounds great, but with all due respect to VGA, it's been over 10 years and they still haven't delivered upon ANY site improvements.  I know I recall hints of population reports and website improvements MANY YEARS ago, and they were not delivered.  So excuse me will I hold my breath   

That said, I'd be one of the first to celebrate a new website/user experience/pop reports if it ever happens.

On 8/30/2021 at 10:59 PM, Ricky Winterborn said:

Except that 95 and 9.8 A++ are not the same thing. There have already been examples of 95+ SM64s not crossing well into WATA.  There is no guarantee when it comes to crossing over into other grading services. 
 

I think by Goldin placing the 9.8 A++ as the #3 lot, they’ve clearly chosen the most valuable of the two. 

On 8/30/2021 at 11:03 PM, blarky said:

Can you please source, or give more details of these 95+ SM64's crossings?

On 8/31/2021 at 12:05 AM, Ricky Winterborn said:

Sure.  Unfortunately, I need to protect my sources.  I realize it sounds cloak and daggery, but it’s their personal story to tell and not mine.  You can also read others’ crossing stories in this very forum where things didn’t work out as hoped. Of course that’s not always true.  That’s the nature of the objective system that grading is. Sometimes the needle slips past where it should be or just doesn’t quite hit the mark, and the next grader has to grade what they see.  WATA has 2 separate grades. One for the seal and one for the box. VGA doesn’t have that kind of breakdown in their 100 digit scale.  Those two grading scales sometimes just don’t line up the way you’re expecting. 

However, I urge anyone considering on bidding on the VGA in hopes of a successful crossover to fully understand the risk involved. 

@Ricky Winterborn Sorry I guess I was trying to understand if you meant SM64 95 or 95+.  Theres only one SM64 95+ that's known (at least according to the grading pop that was being passed around).  And the person that owns it would never cross it to WATA lol.

13 minutes ago, GPX said:

If you turn it around and try to regrade a WATA 9.8 A++ to VGA, I think it would be quite hard to get that VGA95 score. All theoretical of course, but just pointing out other variables to consider.

I agree, but it (probably) really depends on what type of game you're talking about. 

Anything modern or with a plastic/jewel case ... yes I would guess it at least has a fighting chance to go from WATA 9.8 A++ to VGA 95.

NES/SNES/N64 (cardboard boxes)... totally different story.  My thumb in the air guesses:

• NES -> basically 0% chance. 
• SNES ->  possible but extremely unlikely
• N64 -> slightly better than SNES odds

2 minutes ago, Ricky Winterborn said:

Except that 95 and 9.8 A++ are not the same thing. There have already been examples of 95+ SM64s not crossing well into WATA.  

Can you please source, or give more details of these 95+ SM64's crossings?

This will be very interesting to watch:

VGA 95 Super Mario 64 vs WATA 9.8 A++ Super Mario 64  , going head to head in the same auction.

https://goldinauctions.com/1996_N64_Nintendo_64__USA___Super_Mario_64__Sealed-LOT109334.aspx

https://goldinauctions.com/1996_N64_Nintendo_64__USA___Super_Mario_64__Sealed-LOT107330.aspx

I personally feel a VGA 95 is nicer than a WATA 9.8 A++.  But maybe the market prefers the WATA 9.8 A++?  It will be fascinating to see how it unfolds.

10 minutes ago, tidaldreams said:

Yeah, I don't really understand his logic. He thought the one at Heritage that went for $870k was a first print, and then says the second print in worse condition is worth $600k. That doesn't make any sense. If he thought the $870k one was a first print, then there's no way he should think a second print one in worse condition is $600k, it would be worth far less.

“I think the box would get an 8 or an 8.5,” Naierman told The Action Network. “And given what the first print in a higher condition went for, we thought the market was around $600,000 for this.”

Agree, the logic doesn't quite make sense.  I'm assuming he knew the one on HA was 2nd print, and that it's just some error in the article / misquote / misrepresentation here.  Maybe instead of "first print", what was really meant was something like "first sale" or "former sale" , referring to the former HA sale.  

30 minutes ago, epiczail said:

We know who bought that Goodwill Zelda https://www.actionnetwork.com/news/zelda-game-goodwill-sells-411-thousand-darren-rovell

Article is wrong or misquoted in 2 areas:

"...A sealed version of the first print, with the box graded out by WATA as a 9.0 recently sold for..."

"...And given what the first print in a higher condition went for, we thought the market..."

The recent HA sale was a second print (circle R), not first print.

3 hours ago, SealedWholesale said:

amazing how low all the numbers are for every game. I was expecting a lot more

most amazing is with all the big numbers flying around, few of the major ones going to auction

Hinge sticker (no dist btw matte or gloss). i know of another pinball and raws of a lot of games so take with a grain of sal

Hinge sticker list:

 

The sealed black box hinge sticker pop list is extremely low, yes.  Some do not even have 1 graded example of as of the pop request dates.

20 minutes ago, ThePhleo said:

Duck Hunt is the big surprise.

Gyromite & Duck Hunt are literally the most common sticker sealed game of any variant. So for Duck Hunt to only have one, while Gyromite has 7 is a real curiousity.

Makes me think that there’s likely way more out there that isn’t graded just because it “wasn’t worth it”

My theory on that is DH was a more appealing game to open and play since it had the light gun, while setting up Gyromite took a lot more work.  i.e people were more willing to try DH and less willing to try Gyromite.  Which might help explain why there were more sticker sealed Gyromites that have been found left over vs DH.

One other oddity unrelated.  The 85(2) copies of Gumshoe Black Nintendo Seal shouldn't exist since all variants of Gumshoe had the Cardboard Hangtab.  But I think the explanation is simple.  I believe these were 2 copies graded very early in the VGA days from Brian's toys.  I remember seeing the pictures of them, and thought I saved them, but I just can't find them (if anyone has them, please send!).  Anyway, I don't think the designation of "Cardboard Hangtab" hadn't yet been implemented by VGA at that time.

49 minutes ago, ThePhleo said:

I knew about the VGA 80 sticker sealed Super Mario Bros., but I had no idea there was an 85+ out there.

Coupled with formerly-Dan's copy that's three sticker sealed SMB's floating around out there!

Cool data

No, just 2 sticker sealed copies.  The 85+ was the Dan copy that crossed to Wata.

In Maertens29 latest youtube video comments, Annie pointed out that the 2016 data for SMB Cardboard Hangtab had a duplicate instance of 85(1) 

I never noticed that, and agree that doesn't make sense.  

So I went back and checked my emails to see how I screwed up.

Turns out, I copied and pasted exactly what they sent me, which has the duplicate entry.  This is the exact text that was sent on June 20, 2016 from VGA:

As far as errors on my end, I'm off the hook this time  

5 hours ago, Gulag Joe said:

Correct. And yes, it's long term capital gains.

Respectfully, you have no idea if it's short term or long term capital gains.  Only the seller knows if he's owned it for < 1 year (short term), or > 1 year (long term).  

2 minutes ago, 3rdStrongestMole said:

Even this sample reflects how stingy VGA is with their grading.  Of course,  these are all the earliest run Nintendo games, but still... only a handful of 90s throughout the whole batch. An 85+ could go to WATA for an A+ 9.2 probably. Just tough to know exactly since they don't separate the seal and box categories. 

Perhaps a little yes.  But moreso I think it just reflects just how underwhelming the condition is for many of the sealed black box games that have turned up.  For whatever reason, they are usually beat up, scuffed plastic, dinged corners, etc.  Especially for shrinkwrap,  the black color of the box really highlights ANY shrinkwrap scuffing.  Any other color would hide that a lot better.

2 hours ago, Maertens29 said:

@blarkywas your old avatar...a guy smoking a cigar?  I'm desperately trying to remember haha

Yep, it sure was!  Thanks for the reminder.  It was Arnold smoking a cigar (see below).  I also used the Dragon Quest Cyclops, which was the only one I could recall when I signed up here.

3 minutes ago, GPX said:

@blarkyvery nice to see something like this! This should give the general public an idea of what genuine rarity is like, and how hard high grades are to find for most games in the 80s and even early 90s.

Just want to nitpick you with your jibe with the Q grades. In the current era of CIB grading, I think Q grades will become more greatly appreciated by the masses in the following years. We could make a small bet if you like?

Thanks! 

There's a world of difference between Q and sealed though.  The major problem is that I think VGA also purported that Q games are also supposed to be "new but opened".... but please correct me if I'm wrong there.  The one or two Q games I've had clearly had lot of spine wear on the box, and some overall wear in general, indicating it had been opened many times, which doesn't really feel "new" to me.  To me, that really hurt that overall argument.  Also, I really don't know how VGA is/was able to verify the inserts/manuals/contents of the games for completeness/authenticity/chronology/cohesiveness.  i.e. does that manual really go with that game, or is there a variation difference?  In the early days, there's no way VGA had that kind of knowledge to do this reliably.  In general I really think Q was an afterthought at VGA so they could take in more business.  Finally, VGA really made discerning "sealed" from Q games very difficult.  If you look at the label, you have to squint to see the "qualified" text.  A better way I finally realized is that the sealed games have the "pink" background, and the Q games have the "baby blue" background on the VGA label.  In all honesty, I think wata has done a tremendously better job catering to the CIB market.  I would bet that many Q graded games, if crossed to wata, would receive "IMP" status for incorrect married parts.  Wata simply has much better data to decide the wholeness of CIB and if all the parts match up properly.