DeterioratingBrains

Bump, still looking.

"Blahblahblah my father worked in Nintendo."

"R@RER IN 2023 THAN 2020"

No photo = fake or not as interesting as you would want us to believe. if you want to sell an expensive item, be transparent and stop the bullshit.

And no photos of it working either, despite the more than doubled price.

"lmao".

Not really sure if this is the right sub-forum, but I am looking for someone located in Spain to acquire something locally. Parcel forwarding would be to another destination in Europe, all payments by Paypal.

Details by PM.

On 12/6/2023 at 2:40 PM, RH said:

The question in the title is not a slam against him or his foundation, but this is something I really struggle with understanding.  If ever an unreleased game is discovered for a game system, or maybe an early prototype/build of a famous game, one of the things that seemingly reasonable people tend to suggest to the owners is that they "send it to Frank Cifaldi and have it archived."

Well, I can understand the desire to preserve the data, but it's also my understanding that he respects the rights of the owner and doesn't distribute the ROMs if the owner doesn't want it to be shared.  I can respect that he is respecting the owners and, by doing that, he has been able to dump a lot of ROMs.  However, one should still ask, what's even the point of the process if the preserved data is never allowed to be distributed. used, analyzed, etc.

I'm not talking about dumping ROMs and the owners allowing for it to be distributed at a later time.  I'm talking about the rare instance where someone finds a prototype, sends it to Frank to archive, and then decides to put it on their shelf and let it's existence fade with time.  Why bother?  I've seen this suggested and I assume it's happened.  I just don't get the point because at some point that information needs to be "freed".

Funny how people like you never ask questions like "what's the point of archiving cans of 35mm films when those can't be released in this day and age?" Guess what, there may be legal reasons, lack of distributor interested in the title, refusal to exploit the movie given by the (late) director, etc. etc.

Should we then close all film archives, tear apart the library of congress? Should we set fire to museum basements where less relevant pieces are stored but not necessarily displayed?

It's not because you can't access the organization assets that its work is not relevant or pointless.

Stop trying to make this topic about you and your endeavors, thanks. Three of your four replies to the quotes start with "I". Self-centered and insufferable much?

7 hours ago, Code Monkey said:

I wouldn't trust someone else having a copy of the dump and it not getting out. What about a rogue employee? What if I bought The Video Game History Foundation and effectively owned all of the dumps? According to Frank they apparently have Police Academy but it hasn't been proven.

You're free to never trust anyone or any organisation in your life. This typically correlates with being quite miserable too. xoxo

Hi,

To crack the password, the best way is to dump it and have it sent to a professional NES reverse engineer.

If you are concerned about potential devaluation of the cartridge (which has not proven to be true so far):

- CaH4e3 reverse engineered the entirety of Sim City for an entire year or two before the ROM was released by GameHistoryOrg. There are other members of the nesdev community with whom you could confidently entrust a dump without seeing it released without your consent.

- Frank Cifaldi / GameHistoryOrg dumps all of the proto WATA gets but isn't releasing any, only the owner shall make that decision. I don't think there ever were any drama in that regard with him and his org, and he most certainly has trusted acquaintenances that can do the said reverse engineering to ultimately help you out and your friend.

And, whatever if you want to pass around a dump for reverse engineering or keep it solely private, you can still dump it yourself quite easily. Just acquire or have someone come over with a dumping device. The Analogue NT (mini), Kazzo, CopyNES, any other will do just fine. You want to dump this cartridge as MMC3 (Mapper 4, TKROM or TXROM, depending of the device you use, the dumping script name shall differ).

Anyhow, I hope you don't suffer too much with all the investors spamming your DMs. Best of luck with those animals that can't even read the first line of your post :^)

3 hours ago, CodysGameRoom said:

 

 

Making a general claim or directing a claim to a group does not mean an individual is involved. The text you quoted is ambiguous and it shows.

IN ANY CASE, I have infinite respect for OP for buying the game and having the presevationist mindset. I do blame some of the side thoughts abot the game price and rarity but the whole topic probably lead people to discuss this subject more than necessary, it's not a blame I put on OP shoulders. Don't make me say what I did not intend to say in the first place, thanks.

Again props.

Congrats!

Just one nitpick:

On 9/26/2023 at 6:41 PM, DarkKobold said:

I'm kinda surprised by this. On the scale of video games, for a once-in-a-lifetime game, this seemed insanely cheap. [...] I was legitimately worried some WATA-level buyers were going to drop a 6 figure bids at the last second. 5k is a lot of money, but let's be honest, someone dropped 1.5m on a sealed Mario 64 last year. This isn't even in the same realm of ridiculous. 

You people are feeding this trend, especially with these posts. There are plenty of one-of-a-kind games that don't sell for much. It does not mean they are under valued, that's just the market, offer and demand, trends, and so on.

Brief reminder of the SNES/Playstation prototype that sold for only 1/3 of the highest offer the owners had receiver before auctionning it publicly. They toured the world to advertise it, raise awareness, hype, and so on. But at the end of the day, there's so much you can do to steer the interersts of potential buyers. You may always attracts idiots that just wants C@@L R@RE stuff to brag (there are plenty on VGS unfortunately) but their interest will dwindle to zero as soon as a new trendy rare stuff pops up that's a bit more prestigious for their e-peen.
Hell, it just happened two days ago on eBay: One seller had two IQ-201 Famicom clones. One original model from 1987 and another, more common, "Max Play" branded one. Both auctions ended the same day, the 1987 console sold for nearly $280 while the Max Play one didn't get a single bid at $60. The Max Play was relisted and it just sold for an insane $200. Some nutjobs just saw the other auction, jumped to conclusion or assumed it was C@@L and R@R3!1!!1 and jumped on the hype train. Had it been one month apart, it would not have happened. I wish them great luck for making that money back.

We can spend an eternity talking about the true value of games. But then one is not collecting games for the entertainment, but just seeing them as an investment.
I want to emphasize that this is a general criticism, it is not directed at you at all!

1 hour ago, fcgamer said:

Honestly DeterioratingBrains, it sounds like you are just jealous of people that own game prototypes.

"lmao"
Had you read and understood my messages, it should have been obvious that:

• I do not give a damn about the ROM being public or not. As I have made it clear previously.
• I simply value the existence of digital copies, whatever they are public or kept private in a few hands. As I have stated in a previous message too.

So I would kindly ask you to stop assuming that I may be jealous, or whatever. You are creating the missconceptions here.

You missed the point entirely.

17 hours ago, fcgamer said:

Are you speaking into a mirror when uttering this phrase? I don't mean any offense and absolutely no disrespect from what I said, so I apologize in advance if I do accidently offend you, but I'd highly recommend toning the arrogance down a bit. Talking without knowledge?

There are a lot of wrongs in Tanooki's post, like it or not. Bergsala has never been the "go-to", nor "Nintendo of Europe". Blatant generalizations are never okay, are they?

So keep the mirror to yourself, thanks.

5 hours ago, fcgamer said:

I'm pretty sure just in this thread you made claims that simply aren't true, Code Monkey and I both would pay less for dumped Protos, as well as basically everyone else. 

You also stated this much yourself that the binary existing lowers the interest

Except that, as shown previously with examples, the market hasn't shown this trend at all. Two people swiping their panties at each other doesn't make a market trend 

3 hours ago, fcgamer said:

I'd reckon that attitudes such as the one you've shown in this thread turn people away from the long-term goals you're trying to reach regarding dumping of games, preservation, or whatever. It's akin to a preacher shouting in a random guy's face as the person walks by, about the person going to hell and being evil, whilst knowing nothing about that person, his, her or their story, his, her or their life, etc. It's just going to turn people off from listening, maybe even from religion (or in our case, dumping games).

The person itself, their life, their story, anything, should never justify endangering actual historical artifacts. In fact, it is illegal in most countries to do so or take such risk. But I guess none of you really value the games you spend so much money at? /thread

1 hour ago, Code Monkey said:

I'm less interested in purchasing prototypes if they're released and I always offer less in that situation.

The other thread made it quite apparent you have that investor mindset and looks clueless on what you're putting your money towards.

I don't believe for a second that, as a collector of physical object, you would care about the fact it is dumped or not. Or you're hiding your investment intentions. You either own something or you don't. If your interest lowers due to some binary existing on the internet, you were not that interested in the first place, weren't you?

Aside, most preservation groups don't pay a penny for a vast majority of the items they get and release. They just offer the service to collectors. The fundraisings are only done for truly one-of-a-kind items and quite often, a collector puts most of the money and the preservation group adds a small help "on the side". I've participated in enough fundings to know exactly the amounts involved.

I shall close this topic by reminding that there are absolutely no evidence that prototypes are devaluated when they are dumped on the collector market, beside your dubious claims plagued by your investment mindset.

Oh and I forgot to cover one point. "Turns fans away"… Can we talk about the sheer popularity of reproductions, special releases of unreleased games? What is Earthbound Zero? Star Fox 2? Sim City? Huge Insect? Sonic (2) prototypes?! What's Atari 2600 collecting then? All of the work done by Bock of SMSPower to document and popularise unheard of titles released on Sega systems? I highly doubt it "lowers" the popularity or interest of the said item.

You are out of your mind or making stuff up at this point.

Yet another person talking without knowledge. There were many companies involved in distributing the NES in Europe. Bergsala only had the rights to some Scandinavian countries. Bienengräber had Germany, Stadlbauer in Austria, Waldmeier in Switzerland, ASD then Bandai in France, the list goes on.

On that topic, I think no collector has ever managed to complete a PAL set from one of these more obscure distributor, e.g the Austrian one.

2 hours ago, fcgamer said:

As a whole, dumping prototypes devalues them; we can cherry-pick a few examples and mention that those items have maintained or increased in value, but for the vast majority of cartridges, this isn't the case. 

Problem: notable (dumped) prototypes circulates much less than some other video games collectibles.

Let us take a recent example: the Caltron 9-in-1. It was sold around, each time at an increased prices by "investors" until it was dumped by its current owner and remained in the said collection ever since. I am quite positive this has been the case for most prototypes dumped by Forest of Illusions lately. For example, there has been a plethora of 3DS test cartridges located lately, some quite expensive. All dumped by the collectors who bought them and are now keeping them.

I think there's a clear cut between people who are those so-called investors and refuse to dump games and tend to sell the said good after a few years versus actual gamers/collectors that care about what they have in their hands.

On 4/22/2023 at 1:35 PM, fcgamer said:

Sources? I don't believe that to be true at all.

I will flip the question and pinpoint that prices has been going up for years. It is not because Stadium Events is dumped that it is less sought after.

And in any case, I don't think Earthbound protos has been devalued. I highly doubt the long dumped SMB2 prototype would sell for $350 either, nor Sim City a price below the one both cartridges sold to. Also frankly I can't wrap my head between your stance in this thread and in the other. You do support, or fight against, using collectibles as investment? Is it okay depending of the person doing it?

Read the thread.

Again, those horrible and despicable preservationists that devaluate prototypes daily but kindly warning out collectors to avoid ill, worthless, purchases. Those pricks!

7 hours ago, MrWunderful said:

I appreciate this post. Anyone who says that they care about preservation, but refused to release whatever rom in public obviously doesn’t actually care about actual preservation, just whatever their initial investment was.

Most people don't even care if the ROM is released or not. Indeed there is a vocal minority that will beg for anything but the vast majority of people are simple beings and will be glad and move one if they know a unique cartridge is dumped and safe in a few hard drives around the world.

History has proven repeatedly that no prototype, not bit-identical to the retail version, has ever been devalued after being dumped. And even then, those most afraid of any decrease in value yet still open to dumps, made reproductions that they sold before releasing the ROMs and generally made hefty profits or solid paybacks.

So I really don't understand the histeria and the small talk about the hypothetical value based on a chain of 32 what-ifs and so on with the current market. If you don't do anything and just sit on it, then words are just worthless dusts in the wind of time.

It is quite fascinating and daunting that Arcade collectors have understood the utter importance of dumping and documenting their games while quite some commercial games collectors, especially and nearly exclusively from NA~VGS, are oddballs and will go out of their way to defame, or prevent a dump to happen or be released.

Say you find an ancient historical artifact and you act like "this should not have been found" and you leave it there exposed to the elements. This is the exact equivalent to the "It wasn't meant to be played anyway" that I've seen here. Should not we value and save unique historical artifacts that have made it to us appropriately?

Anyway, in all cases I have seen over the years is infatuated egos of the collectors. Then they are utterly misearable when the prototype stops working and they're left with just plastic junk. We've seen it with Bugs Bunny BB and some collectors are experiencing that as of now; Forest of Illusion has stumbled on bitrot N64 prototypes a few months ago, for example.

As long as that stupid minset remain, that cycle will repeat again. Unfortunately, it seem to a common human behaviour, having to go through an absolute shitty situation and loosing everything to learn that their mindset was completly stupid, despite all the given warnings made by others.

Let's not even mention the gossips based on "I have a friend of friend that got ignored" when we don't get any of the in-depth context. Game History Org may be far from perfect, they have definitely shown they could get shit done. Can't say as much about some people on this forum.

Thing is, they had not completed the purchase.

They were bragging about it on NA and other forums all over the place. Of course they'd be nicer in front of the seller. I don't know what exactly led to the seller choosing another buyer but it probably played a role if they were that close to closing the deal.

13 hours ago, CMR said:

Maybe I need to clarify a little further.  If it's a well known and popular game, then no it probably isn't going to change in value very much if it's proto is dumped.  I'm also not talking about appreciation over time.  All this stuff has gotten more valuable over the years.  If it's a proto of an unreleased game, however, then I will say it's going to be worth more if its rom isn't released. 

How so? A ROM dump of some lesser known property literally builds its own reputation. In this public you will always find a subset that truly enjoyed that one unreleased game and will desire to acquire it, whatever as a reproduction or the said proto.
The only argument that goes your way is the number of preservation societies or individuals which, at times, lack coordination and ends up fighting against each other. And even then, that is more artificial than anything.

There are also very rare instances of pricks going all out to prevent this happening that could also go your way but these remain a rare sight. I can only think off of two instances for NES over the past 10 years:

• Sim City, where some Australian offered $50k per cartridge with clear intentions to never let the game slip. Apparently the seller shat on them as they (the buyer) was evidently ass-ish.
• Some Japanese unreleased RPG for the Famicom, where the buyer spent >$10k and then anonymously bragged on 2channel on how they had saved a Japanese treasure from occidentalism, with a whole rant that was just packed racism and japanese nationalism. It just felt like rage tears honestly. Must be harsh to blow away a few salaries with such a stupid motive.

3 hours ago, CMR said:

Releasing protos can devalue them, there is no doubt about that.  That's why I really appreciate people like Cifaldi who have invested a lot of their own money into protos just to dump and release them.  Lots of respect for that guy.

No evidence whatsoever in that regard in the past 20+ years. Even for rare commercial games that got dumped later this remains wrong.