Aatos

3 minutes ago, jonebone said:

Maybe slower, but we'd still be hitting crazy highs in the future due to the vast marketing and cross-over collectors. 

It’s not the first time in this thread you make this argument that the alleged collusion/market manipulation (whether illegal or just unethical use of position) was ultimately irrelevant since the prices would’ve hit these highs eventually anyway, which is quite flawed in my opinion - it’s like you’re saying timing is irrelevant factor in investments, even though it’s literally Finance 101 that interest, opportunity cost (ie.deciding what one should invest in) etc. all critically depend on the timing of the investment.

To me it’s kinda similar to saying shill bidding is ok if the real bidder was still willing to pay the artificially inflated price, which I doubt you’d agree with.

On 8/23/2021 at 10:05 PM, Gloves said:

 

It's an hour-long watch, and a lot of stuff we've already discussed here on VGS, but it takes everything and puts it in a nice consumable video and makes it all pretty clear.

He goes into NintendoAge stuff pretty deeply especially.

So on top of everything, the douche who single handedly destroyed NintendoAge is actually a(n undisclosed) director for Wata, and people here still use the service? Wow. 

4 hours ago, jonebone said:

All of these conflict of interest arguments were made 2.5 years ago and I agree they aren't the best look.  But that's for them to worry about, not me.

I just know that as a person, Deniz is not just one of, but probably the most humble and genuine collectors I ever met.  If others around him have muddied the waters that will never change my opinion of him.

Sounds like you give him free pass for at least the clearly apparent market manipulation / unethical utilization of his position to drive up the market to his own financial benefit? Like he isn't an adult making those choices for his company himself, but just some kid caught between some questionable company? Like somehow the fact that he's a sweet kid and genuinely passionate about videogames somehow means it's ok if he does something unethical that hurts other people? I'm not sure I understand your logic here.

If you (and several others here) know him so well, maybe you should raise some of the serious issues mentioned here? 

6 hours ago, Dumars2001 said:

Collecting is now an investment!

My personal view on this: still nope!

First of all, it’s only an investment in the sense that buying dogecoin is an investment. No sensible financial institution would probably call it that or recommend it (since actually it’s just a game of hot potato). It’s just speculative.

Second, collecting miniscule subset of  videogames (aka ”popular sealed first print”) might be that (”investment” aka hot potato). Collecting videogames in itself certainly isn’t. There are still thousands of cheap games and even buying the more expensive ones (what constitutes expensive in itself is relative) doesn’t automatically qualify them being an ”investment” (game of hot potato).

Third, very personal opinion here but I don’t think buying 1/nth share on SMB1 in a acrylic box held somewhere counts as collecting videogames either. (Can you imagine in the future some dude coming to you like ”dude, you gotta see my awesome video game collection, it’s crazy!” then leading you to his filing cabinet and pulling out a dusty binder full of these ”shares” neatly organized inside ).

55 minutes ago, Shmup said:

People taking complete in box games and putting them in a plastic tomb. 

Well, this practice for CIB I find quite distasteful too, but I’m not sure if it’s really gotten that much traction, even after how many years has Wata being around now? I mean has it really affected any CIB games supply and price meaningfully?

46 minutes ago, CodysGameRoom said:

I enjoy buying games I want at a reasonable price. Because of this part of the hobby, that is slowly being taken away from me. 

We all do buddy, but let’s be honest - the reason it’s happening is still not really the speculators or sealed collectors or wata or even scalpers - it’s the ever increasing popularity of the hobby. Besides reasonable price is really dependant on when you entered - I started in 2012 so no the prices today seem hardly reasonable to me, even though the guy who started in 2006 probably thought the same in 2012.. There’s still enough great games for all platforms to be discovered for all price ranges and interesting and affordable subcategories to collect too. 
 

Furthermore, the little attention that Keio Flying Squadron got despite the indisputable rarity & hidden gem status just proves the guys currently in this big money game aren’t even interested in the real gems/rarities that are out there, so there’s probably even lesser impact there to ”us real collectors/game aficianados”.  

19 hours ago, Shmup said:

Wow this hobby is turning to shit. Becoming like comics every day. 

Is it though? I don’t see how this or the 1.56M sale in any way affects our ability to hunt and collect and play interesting and awesome games, more than we have time for in a lifetime!
 

(I assume that is the hobby you’re referring to, not collecting overprized totems sealed in acryl tombs to sit on your mantel).

3 hours ago, ExplodedHamster said:

In terms of HA being sued

As I recall, they were sued for it by someone who owed Heritage over half a million dollars from a joint venture gone wrong and the court threw out the guy’s lawsuit because he had no actual evidence. Leaving that information out of the video and letting the “Heritage was sued” hang out there is kinda gross.

Agreed, thanks for clarifying. My sincerest apologies if this at all seemed like peddling conspiracy theories, that was certainly not intended but I’m sincerely excited to understand what’s behind this.

I really really appreciate you taking the time to participate in this discussion and identify yourself as the seller. I too recognize your nick from NA times and in my eyes this greatly increases the legitimacy and my understanding of the sale. I definitely don’t mean that you had any obligation to legitimize it to others in any way, I just really appreciate personally being able to understand it better.

Congratulations for the sale! It is a big thing and like someone said a huge milestone for recognizing the value of video games as cultural icons they are - you should know this sale eg. made the Economy -section of the biggest daily newspaper in Finland yesterday . 

24 minutes ago, WalterWhiteJr. said:

Just going to leave this right here...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f8O4z7zWDg4

Was gonna come post the same thing. Heritage Auctions having been actually sued for shill bidding in the past doesn’t really increase my trust in this sale being legit..

28 minutes ago, Gulag Joe said:

The game was sold. It doesn't matter if you or myself or anyone can't figure out why. Why would anyone pay millions of dollars for NFTs? Why would anyone pay thousands for a "sculpture" of air? Why would anyone pay thousands of dollars for a nes world class track meet ripoff game? People with disposable income spend it in disposable ways.

Sure it matters - I mean not in cosmic sense of course, but it's interesting distinction to me and many others if

a) The game was actually sold at all - again I don't know for 100% this exchange actually happened, nor do I know if I should trust what I see on the website. I don't actively doubt them, but again the more senseless this particular purchase right now is, the more sus the whole thing becomes

b) What kind of logic went into buying the game. I mean what you suggest (they just had disposable income) is just one possible explanation. Or was it a huge gamble banking on finding the bigger fool to buy this game, was there some rich bitcoin mofo who really loved this game in particular and decided to get this no matter what, was this part of the big push to lure coin/comic collectors to "invest" into big video game names now while the market is still relatively young (which we know certain parties have been pushing for few years now), or what?

It's really interesting and relevant because looking at the facts - the title, the sales price and arguably the rarity, it doesn't make too much sense. 

Also, I think we all can agree people buying NFTs are just megarich out of touch idiots or people who try to make a profit out of it? So if the buyer of this is someone similar to those people, that would be actually pretty interesting and relevant too because that kind of person could not be further away from someone who you see here, who collects games and even sealed games out of the passion for the art. 

And one more point, since you mentioned Stadium Events in particular - that's probably the worst counter-example you could pick specifically because the way its price and valuation has developed in the collecting community is really kind of polar opposite to this. SE's price has developed super organically in my opinion, over the past 15 years, because the concept of full set collecting has developed and deep understanding and appreciation for it along the way, whereas this SM64 seemingly increased in price literally like 100-fold overnight. 

9 minutes ago, Gulag Joe said:

 "it's just so incredibly rare which legit makes it worth 1.56 million dollars"

Okay then.

18 minutes ago, Gulag Joe said:

You are reading numbers that are unverifiable in regard to the assumption of there being 10 vga 90+ out there. The only thing we know for sure is that there are only 2 graded 9.8a++ and that came directly from the auctioneer. Until people start posting source links for all these other alleged grades, it's all fake news.

Uhh.. I thought you just acknowledged the 12? Either way I've been here (well, over there) for 10 years too and based on what I know of the people here I too trust Jonebone's assessment over yours, sorry (it makes more sense intuitively as well, considering e.g. the sales numbers and overall Mario's popularity at the time of release of this vs. something like SMB1 etc.).

But anyway again you dodged my actual question here - why would Super Mario 64 in particular be any kind of sensible purchase for 1.56M ? Or is your final answer to just hang with the "it's just so incredibly rare which legit makes it worth 1.56 million dollars" ?

16 minutes ago, Gulag Joe said:

12 is still very, very few.

I thought your reasoning for the high price was that there was only 1 were only 2 though. That's 600% increase. 

Anyway as you seem to be in the know (even though not too many people seem convinced here yet), I'm still looking for an explanation why Mario 64 specifically - what makes that the most valuable game in history by a long stretch? Again I know any other collectibles market poorly but it seems equal to someone paying $10M for Superman #164 from 1963 in pristine condition and arguing they just really really wanted the one of few really mint copies. 

4 minutes ago, Gulag Joe said:

Respectfully, the HA data is searchable right now- 16 total wata grades.

I thought VGA was grading these when Wata founders were literally still in school, what about them?

21 minutes ago, Gulag Joe said:

A PSA 10 michael jordan rookie sells for 200k

A PSA 9 SELLS FOR 20k

Difference is there are more than 300 psa 10s. There's only 2 known 9.8a++ Mario 64. Lower graded copies of the same game average between 10k-50k. Unless we see 298 more Mario 64 9.8a++, which I believe is unlikely, the price tag for this game in this condition will continue to increase.

I know nothing about those cards, but as the person above said, this is Mario 64. An important game for sure, but not this important. Like, again I know nothing about those cards, but this is like Mario’s 5th  (6th if you count Yoshi’s Island) or so mainline game, on Nintendo’s least popular console, not verifiably first print or anything either, 11 years after SMB1, released measly 25 years ago, and it’s already worth half the value of most reveared and valued comic book collectable that is over 80 years old? I just think the magnitude of the sale is way off.

19 minutes ago, Californication said:

Maybe they went over the top with 1.6M because they thought it would be a hard sell to move to N64. The thing is if they can get more sales of the Mario N64 sealed, they could potentially have a larger supply of inventory and over time people wouls forget the original sale implies 1 of 2.

Yeah I mean if one could snatch a copy of something that ”legit” went for 1.56 million for say… 300k, one would jump on it immediately and feel pretty good about it? If they would just happen to have more supply available?

Also with this much potential profit on the line, should we really take this sale, ie. just the number visible on the HA site at face value evidence that this exchange was really made? It’s a sincere question as I just personally don’t know anything about the HA or their background or people behind it. I mean funnily enough this was even reported here in Finland by the national news broadcaster but I doubt they vetted this any more than anyone else, just based on the auction listing.

9 minutes ago, GPX said:

I should have made it less ambiguous:

the situation currently makes a lot of sense. But only to those who can afford it. 

Money laundering? Pyramid scheme where the still relatively low prices as of last week were artificially driven up ? Perhaps you should make it even way less ambiguous to those of us who can’t afford it?

1 minute ago, Gulag Joe said:

 

”Higher demand” is imo too simple explanation for 1.56 million pricepoint though. At least to me a demand implies there would be people lining up buying slightly lesser copies for proportionately lesser price, but I doubt that’s the case. If there were two extremely rich people competing for this resulting this price, it’s hardly yet evidence that there’s astronomically high demand for mint sealed SM64. Rather, for some reason that is beyond me, they thought this would make good investment somehow.

Ehh.. okay. 500k-ish for verifiably first print SMB1 I could somehow kinda almost understand, I guess it was kinda closest to being Action Comics #1 of video games (which is over 80 years old mind you).. but 1.56M dollars for what seems to be a regular sealed SM64, a relatively new game? Someone care to explain?

Also, this was an auction, so there were actually at least two individuals who were willing to pay that, and one who was potentially willing to pay much more? Maybe they'll intent keep selling the game to each other until one of them loses..

Oddly enough, I've had the book this is based on in my bookshelf for years and finally started reading it like only in August while watching Netflix's High Score documentary which covers similar time period. 

Only now found that they're actually making a documentary about the book!   ... and apparently not releasing it in any service outside North America? Great, thanks.

Just now, Gloves said:

The people who already had money have more now. Gotta spend it on something, may as well be on nostalgia.

Are you saying all collectors eg. here are rich? I dunno, my image of average NA/VGS’er over the years is kind of average income middle class person, not in any particular way shielded from eg. the crazy job loss we’re seeing in the US. You’d think there’d be more people panic selling big collections now..

You’d think worst global recession in a century would tank the prices, not inflate them but oh well. Maybe the effects will come later...

I have several of their books, particularly I love the Super Famicom cover book and can highly recommend them.

I think box art is a bit of a lost art since even if you have the games you tend to miss the other regions’ versions, which especially during this period was wildly different as we know, so I think I need to get this one too.

All sold for now, thanks!

I have a confession to make: for some of the games in my collection, I’ve done the most unholy Frankensteining imaginable: I’ve combined NTSC game with PAL box!

It’s an abomination, I know. This was mostly N64, from a time when I was still unsure if I wanted to go PAL or NTSC. I accumulated nice PAL copies of some of the games, then later I realized I just can’t live with PAL, gameplay experience matters most so I ended up purchasing the US carts for those that had identical cart labels (besides the oval I know) and only fully replacing those with completely different art.

But yeah in the end, the black PAL boxes look nicer anyway than the green/blue US ones and it’s not like I plan to ever sell them or anything. (Suffice to say I also have no problem combining regular cib from pieces).

My father's, in early June. I don't think I fully grasp it yet. Like, the full reality of it. It's strange. It does make you appreciate every day though (even if that's a terrible cliché). 

Also, man do brain cancers suck. You get all the weird personality changes and memory, speech and comprehension issues etc. on top of you know, cancer. 

30 minutes ago, zeppelin03 said:

I would mail you games in exchange for Lakerol and smorgas pickles.  Maybe some pressidenti coffee and wooden spatulas.

That's a sweet deal, you're on!

30 minutes ago, Gloves said:

I'll send you a game buddy. 

15 minutes ago, Mega Tank said:

I got you.

  Thank you so much guys! I also noticed there was still a fresh Google cache of my first feedback page from NA, at least was able to capture that to remember all the great people who've helped me along the way. 

Not wanting to dwell on GoCollect too much, but does anyone else find strange there's not a single actual post from any user besides their mod? Panic lockdown to avoid all the WTF happened threads? It must be weird day for your average NA lurker too, wondering what the heck happened.. hope they find their way home.