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i didnt even realize this was a thing. and it seems there is a pretty big split over how buyers leave feedback.

for me, as a buyer, i feel like its part of my responsability to leave feedback first. it lets the seller know i am satisfied with the transaction.

but it seems some people believe there part, as the buyer, is done once they pay in a timely manner.

as a seller i apparently "hold feedback hostage"... so be it.

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i dont ask for feedback, could care less. but this idea that the buyer is done once payment is made....over my head i suppose.

This is hilarious. I had a seller send me a message after I bought something (can't remember what) asking if it was ok to just drop it in an envelope with a stamp. After I had paid the $4 for shipping

I’ve been selling on eBay since ‘99 and it’s been a simple process for me.    The buyer purchases the item and pays me. I leave positive feedback at the time I sit at my computer. I print the s

In my opinion, the seller should leave feedback first, because once the buyer has paid, their part of the transaction is complete.  HOWEVER, after eBay changed the rules to prevent sellers from leaving negative feedback, I'm ok with the sellers waiting until the buyers leaves feedback before they post their own.  And with that said, with the buyer protections that are available today, I don't really even think about feedback that much anymore.  I only leave feedback on eBay as a habit (because I always have), but I never got into the habit of leaving feedback on other sites like Amazon.  

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30 minutes ago, TDIRunner said:

In my opinion, the seller should leave feedback first, because once the buyer has paid, their part of the transaction is complete.  HOWEVER, after eBay changed the rules to prevent sellers from leaving negative feedback, I'm ok with the sellers waiting until the buyers leaves feedback before they post their own.  And with that said, with the buyer protections that are available today, I don't really even think about feedback that much anymore.  I only leave feedback on eBay as a habit (because I always have), but I never got into the habit of leaving feedback on other sites like Amazon.  

In general, I agree.

But I think the system works best if the seller just leaves feedback quickly. Once the buyer has paid, the buyer has completed his/her part of the transaction and the seller should immediately reward that action with positive feedback.

Edited by DoctorEncore
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19 minutes ago, TDIRunner said:

In my opinion, the seller should leave feedback first, because once the buyer has paid, their part of the transaction is complete.  HOWEVER, after eBay changed the rules to prevent sellers from leaving negative feedback, I'm ok with the sellers waiting until the buyers leaves feedback before they post their own.  And with that said, with the buyer protections that are available today, I don't really even think about feedback that much anymore.  I only leave feedback on eBay as a habit (because I always have), but I never got into the habit of leaving feedback on other sites like Amazon.  

What is this trash?!  When did they do that.  I'm sorry, but there are buyers out there willing to "scam" as much as some sellers.  If I sell someone a CIB game with a pristine CD and they try to do a disc swap, they deserve negative feedback if they are caught.  I don't care if the ends of the transaction are different.  If someone would try to scam a seller like that, they will try to scam a buyer, probably with what they stole from the original seller.

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I remember when it was just the opposite problem...when sellers would hold feedback hostage and buyers would be scared to leave a negative (even if it was most definitely called for) for fear of getting retaliatory (negative) feedback from the seller (this was back in the dark ages when sellers could leave feedback for buyers...and frankly I'm GLAD this can't be done anymore).

Not to mention the crap some sellers tried to pull about "if you don't pay extra for the insurance and your item gets damaged/ruined in the mail, tough noogies".  See I'm a card collector and it's VERY important that sets (I always get complete sets to put in binder/pages) be packed real careful with plenty of peanuts/bubble wrap and such...or else the set/cards can easily be RUINED in shipping.  So basically how it sounded like the above was worded was, unless you make very sure to pay extra for the insurance, and your item arrives damaged/ruined (even though in nearly all cases it was because the seller didn't package it properly), you're out the item and the seller keeps your money. 😞 

Again, I'm so grateful the above (hopefully) no longer applies.  I promise though in my defense I'm not a "bad buyer" and I get no joy whatsoever in being disappointed in getting a damaged/ruined/SNAD item (especially if like in a lot of cases it was a truly super hard to find kind of thing). 😞 

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18 minutes ago, RH said:

What is this trash?!  When did they do that.  I'm sorry, but there are buyers out there willing to "scam" as much as some sellers.  If I sell someone a CIB game with a pristine CD and they try to do a disc swap, they deserve negative feedback if they are caught.  I don't care if the ends of the transaction are different.  If someone would try to scam a seller like that, they will try to scam a buyer, probably with what they stole from the original seller.

That has been in place for awhile - way back when it was pretty easy for sellers to not ship goods or defective goods (sometimes the wrong one - I once ordered a dvd and got a different one - it was cheap and I actually liked the one I got more instead) - ebay/paypal at that time didn't help at all if you wanted your money returned.  Yeah - you could leave negative feedback but you were pretty much guaranteed to get the same in return* - and ebay back then (as now) just didn't want to be bothered with actually resolving feedback issues.  It was safer not to leave any feedback since the deed was done - not only were you not getting your money back but you got a negative feedback on top of it.

*A fact which unscrupulous sellers were aware of and fully willing to leverage to their advantage. Usually they would just say go ahead and leave feedback and then they promised to do the same.

Edited by Tabonga
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The buyer has more responsibilities than just paying for the item - therefore it is selfish and mildly childish for the buyer to expect otherwise.

Anyone with half a brain realises the reality of doing business, which is that problems WILL occasionally arise, even if the seller did everything properly on his or her end. In such situations, the ball is then in the buyer's court, alongside the seller's, to figure out a solution that is reasonable. If the buyer just acts like an entitled bastard and makes unreasonable demands, then no, the buyer is most certainly NOT doing a vital part of what they should be doing, in the role in which they are positioned. 

It is therefore silly to expect a seller to leave premature feedback, as the buyer's role isn't necessary finished after paying.

 

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17 minutes ago, Tabonga said:

That has been in place for awhile - way back when it was pretty easy for sellers to not ship goods or defective goods (sometimes the wrong one - I once ordered a dvd and got a different one - it was cheap and I actually liked the one I got more instead) - ebay/paypal at that time didn't help at all if you wanted your money returned.  Yeah - you could leave negative feedback but you were pretty much guaranteed to get the same in return* - and ebay back then (as now) just didn't want to be bothered with actually resolving feedback issues.  It was safer not to leave any feedback since the deed was done - not only were you not getting your money back but you got a negative feedback on top of it.

*A fact which unscrupulous sellers were aware of and fully willing to leverage to their advantage. Usually they would just say go ahead and leave feedback and then they promised to do the same.

I remember leaving negative feedback waaaaay back in the early days.  I remember posting on my auctions that only people with feedback greater than 10 could bid.  I can't recall why, but those were common rules back then as to prevent deadbeat bidders, or something.  Anyway, I made it quite explicit and someone scooped in at the end of one of my auctions and bid before I could cancel it (if that was even an option back then.)

I told him he didn't win because of his lack of feedback.  He left me negative feedback, and I left the same.  That was around 2000 and, IMHO, it felt justified.  I wasn't spiteful in the comments. I just mentioned that he didn't follow the rules and retaliated with negative feedback.  I guess such rules could be petty today regarding required feedback, but again, there are other ways that buyers can cheat the system.  It's a shame that eBay cares nothing about their sellers, and yet, those same people refuse to go elsewhere.  It's like storekeeper Stockholm syndrome.

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2 hours ago, docile tapeworm said:

i didnt even realize this was a thing. and it seems there is a pretty big split over how buyers leave feedback.

for me, as a buyer, i feel like its part of my responsability to leave feedback first. it lets the seller know i am satisfied with the transaction.

but it seems some people believe there part, as the buyer, is done once they pay in a timely manner.

as a seller i apparently "hold feedback hostage"... so be it.

That is nutty of them.

I completely agree that it is the Buyer's move to leave feedback first to say that they are satisfied.

And it is practically irrelevant whether a seller leaves feedback at all, or not -- but I try to catch up on it every so often.

Definitely not a priority for me, at all, as a seller.

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58 minutes ago, RH said:

What is this trash?!  When did they do that.  I'm sorry, but there are buyers out there willing to "scam" as much as some sellers.  If I sell someone a CIB game with a pristine CD and they try to do a disc swap, they deserve negative feedback if they are caught.  I don't care if the ends of the transaction are different.  If someone would try to scam a seller like that, they will try to scam a buyer, probably with what they stole from the original seller.

I'm not saying it's right or wrong, but at the end of the day, eBay focuses on making the buyer happy over the seller.  The reason for the change was to prevent scam sellers from holding feedback hostage.  It's difficult to fight scam sellers and scam buyers at the same time, so eBay focuses on scam sellers.  As a person who buys way more then they sell, this is good for me.  If you are a big time seller, you can offset the loses from scam buyers with your profits from legit buyers.  However, this methodology sucks for the small time sellers, because a single scam buyer can set you way back.  It's the primary reason why I hardly ever sell stuff anymore (at least not high dollar items).  It's not worth it to me anymore.  

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1 hour ago, RH said:

I remember leaving negative feedback waaaaay back in the early days.  I remember posting on my auctions that only people with feedback greater than 10 could bid.  I can't recall why, but those were common rules back then as to prevent deadbeat bidders, or something.  Anyway, I made it quite explicit and someone scooped in at the end of one of my auctions and bid before I could cancel it (if that was even an option back then.)

I told him he didn't win because of his lack of feedback.  He left me negative feedback, and I left the same.  That was around 2000 and, IMHO, it felt justified.  I wasn't spiteful in the comments. I just mentioned that he didn't follow the rules and retaliated with negative feedback.  I guess such rules could be petty today regarding required feedback, but again, there are other ways that buyers can cheat the system.  It's a shame that eBay cares nothing about their sellers, and yet, those same people refuse to go elsewhere.  It's like storekeeper Stockholm syndrome.

I suspect ebay at first backed sellers (albeit passively in that they essentially did nothing - which favored scumbag sellers since they were able to make off with their swag) since that is where they directly collected ebay's swag from the sellers (whether legit or not).

I suspect what happened is that the levels of problematic seller behavior got so bad even they could not continue to ignore it and therefore changed the rules so buyers had confidence and also the bad sellers would rack up negatives to adequately reflect their crappy behavior.

Ebay still does nothing to back up their sham idea that an agreement to sell (and buy) is a binding agreement - and if a buyer gets backdoored * it is no longer a binding agreement - come on ebay - it either is binding or it isn't binding. 

*I once got backdoored on a rare book- the seller cancelled my buy it now and resold it later on ebay - same price (I suspect the person who back doored me paid an additional "bonus" off of ebay's radar).  Despite the record of my buying it, the seller cancelling it and the new buyer stealing the item I bought (and paid for) ebay did jack for me in that case.

 

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2 hours ago, TDIRunner said:

In my opinion, the seller should leave feedback first, because once the buyer has paid, their part of the transaction is complete.

i have to say i dont understand this. how can a buyer say "ive paid, my part is done here" knowing there is a feedback system that leaves the seller vulnerable to impromtu negative feedback when the buyer doesnt leave feedback first?

2 hours ago, DoctorEncore said:

In general, I agree.

But I think the system works best if the seller just leaves feedback quickly. Once the buyer has paid, the buyer has completed his/her part of the transaction and the seller should immediately reward that action with positive feedback.

 

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1 hour ago, arch_8ngel said:

 

I completely agree that it is the Buyer's move to leave feedback first to say that they are satisfied.

i cant understand how it can be viewed any other way.

im with you i could care less if you leave me feedback. and to say im not leaving feedback first as some kind of leverage is hilarious imo. if a buyer leaves + feedback i gladly take time to do the same.

Edited by docile tapeworm
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I used to think that the buyers part was done after the buyer paid. Then I got into collecting and my opinion changed.

When you are buying new merchandise, the products are all in identical condition, you throw away the packaging, and the sellers actual cost of the product is a fraction of the price. You figure there’s gonna be some number of defects and the sellers winning strategy is to sell volume. In this case, the customer is always right, and buyer has done their part when they pay.

With collectibles, the game changes. Each item is unique. Condition matters. Margins can be thin. Buyers can be fraudulent and each act of fraud can really severely hurt the seller. In that case, as a seller I’d want to know that the buyer is satisfied with the product and has accepted ownership of it in the stated condition, they are not going to make any claims or disputes before leaving feedback. It seems the roles are reversed and buyer is now in a position to hold the seller hostage with collectibles.

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2 hours ago, Estil said:

I remember when it was just the opposite problem...when sellers would hold feedback hostage and buyers would be scared to leave a negative (even if it was most definitely called for) for fear of getting retaliatory (negative) feedback from the seller (this was back in the dark ages when sellers could leave feedback for buyers...and frankly I'm GLAD this can't be done anymore).

Not to mention the crap some sellers tried to pull about "if you don't pay extra for the insurance and your item gets damaged/ruined in the mail, tough noogies".  See I'm a card collector and it's VERY important that sets (I always get complete sets to put in binder/pages) be packed real careful with plenty of peanuts/bubble wrap and such...or else the set/cards can easily be RUINED in shipping.  So basically how it sounded like the above was worded was, unless you make very sure to pay extra for the insurance, and your item arrives damaged/ruined (even though in nearly all cases it was because the seller didn't package it properly), you're out the item and the seller keeps your money. 😞 

Again, I'm so grateful the above (hopefully) no longer applies.  I promise though in my defense I'm not a "bad buyer" and I get no joy whatsoever in being disappointed in getting a damaged/ruined/SNAD item (especially if like in a lot of cases it was a truly super hard to find kind of thing). 😞 

This happened to me once long ago. I bought a cd, the shipping costed something like $4 if I remember correctly. The seller stated insurance was another $10 I believe.

Seller shipped it in an envelope with a first class stamp (maybe 35 cents at the time) and of course the cd was cracked in half when I received it. I brought this to the sellers attention and seller said he couldn’t help me and I should have bought the insurance. I told him I paid $4 for shipping and he spent 35 cents on a paper envelope, not to mention the stupidity in mailing a cd in an envelope with no padding. 
 

Ebay didn’t help me, I left the negative feedback and he returned the negative. Those days were the Wild West days of eBay.

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Editorials Team · Posted
51 minutes ago, phart010 said:

Seller shipped it in an envelope with a first class stamp (maybe 35 cents at the time)

This is hilarious. I had a seller send me a message after I bought something (can't remember what) asking if it was ok to just drop it in an envelope with a stamp. After I had paid the $4 for shipping.

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1 hour ago, docile tapeworm said:

i have to say i dont understand this. how can a buyer say "ive paid, my part is done here" knowing there is a feedback system that leaves the seller vulnerable to impromtu negative feedback when the buyer doesnt leave feedback first?

 

Impromptu negative feedback is always possible for whoever leaves feedback second.  Outside of feedback, the buyer's responsibility is complete once he pays.   Again, I fully understand that it isn't how the majority of transactions work, but that is how they SHOULD work.  

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3 hours ago, docile tapeworm said:

i have to say i dont understand this. how can a buyer say "ive paid, my part is done here" knowing there is a feedback system that leaves the seller vulnerable to impromtu negative feedback when the buyer doesnt leave feedback first?

 

To each his own, I suppose. I haven't had enough problems to make me do otherwise. And I don't ask people for feedback either. If they leave it, that's great and if they don't, I just move on.

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Member · Posted
7 hours ago, docile tapeworm said:

i didnt even realize this was a thing. and it seems there is a pretty big split over how buyers leave feedback.

for me, as a buyer, i feel like its part of my responsability to leave feedback first. it lets the seller know i am satisfied with the transaction.

but it seems some people believe there part, as the buyer, is done once they pay in a timely manner.

as a seller i apparently "hold feedback hostage"... so be it.

I'm a hostage taker too.  I tested the waters years ago (decade easily) and do periodically usually for a couple weeks some month each year.  Nothing changes.  If I leave it first, I get next to nothing in return.  If I take a hostage as some call it, then it seems to get up to the 30-40% mark.  I'm 1859 rated on there now, I'd be around 2500 easily if people were forced to do it.

@fcgameris right, it's foolish to say the buyer is done once they hit 'pay' and that's that.  You get all sorts of garbage that comes up.  Last week I sold a 40 year old 18" tall Donkey Kong bank that was unpunched.  Despite the box not being crushed, I did pack it very tightly with bubble wrap to protect the old plastic, but somehow the coin remove bottom circle got half punched in!.  He didn't act like a dick, we both talked it out, and I gave him back $10 on his 30 something dollar purchase.  He wasn't scamming, was cool, no stupid threats, when bringing up partial refund asked it it was cool with the value ending in a question, not a demand, not snappy, no orders or else dude type attitude.  Both ways got good feedback as neither side screwed the other.

As a seller, since we can't have any other form of say in things anymore without a direct phone call and some luck, hold the feedback until it is truly well and done.

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2 hours ago, DoctorEncore said:

To each his own, I suppose. I haven't had enough problems to make me do otherwise. And I don't ask people for feedback either. If they leave it, that's great and if they don't, I just move on.

i dont ask for feedback, could care less. but this idea that the buyer is done once payment is made....over my head i suppose.

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4 hours ago, TDIRunner said:

Impromptu negative feedback is always possible for whoever leaves feedback second.  Outside of feedback, the buyer's responsibility is complete once he pays.   Again, I fully understand that it isn't how the majority of transactions work, but that is how they SHOULD work.  

bold i agree with.

buyers cannot receive negative feedback impromtu, left first or otherwise...

 

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I’ve been selling on eBay since ‘99 and it’s been a simple process for me. 
 

The buyer purchases the item and pays me. I leave positive feedback at the time I sit at my computer. I print the shipping label at the same time (packing slip back in the day). I’m happy I sold what I didn’t want and write the same generic thank you with feedback. It became apart of my every transaction workflow. 

I drop the item at the post office and call it a day. I don’t have the time to look at my feedback or setup the automation process to leave it when someone leaves it for me. 
 

I don’t feedback hunt, hold it hostage or begin to even think about it twice. With over 15,000 transactions on the seller side (mostly games and computer parts) I may have had problems with 10 buyers in 20+ years. 
 

I’ve owned my primary line of business about the same time. When someone puts the trust in me to deliver their project I damn sure say thank you or write an email to the buyer thanking them. 

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