Masks in public/at the park

[Quest4Nes | 376]

29 minutes ago, JamesRobot said:

 

For sure kids are gross.  I do what I can to mitigate risk but also not live in fear.  Masks in public (by order of law), hand sanitize after play, wash hands when we get home.  

Let's put COVID and mask politics aside. You're telling me that you would bite your tongue and let anyone stand within an inch of you without actual physical contact and let them ruin your day.  You would just take shit, stand down, and walk away?  You wouldn't let them know that what they are doing is not ok?  

Well I would have just let my kid play with the kid because Im not concerned with kid transmission. Much more dangerous things to kids than covid. I think more damage is done to the kid with the behavior displayed over the course of this pandemic and virtual school etc. than covid ever would. To be honest Id rather my kid be around germs. Im a school teacher. I rarely get sick because I'm around nasty kids everyday.

[JamesRobot | 5,799]

11 minutes ago, Code Monkey said:

I have zero right to tell him to get away from me. 

You have every right to tell someone to leave you alone in public.

[fcgamer | 4,723]

4 hours ago, Jeevan said:

idk, all im really trying to get across is that technically she should have been wearing a mask.  She really should have because she is over the age of 4.  Anyway, I agree I would prolly do the same while my wife would be a @JamesRobot .  BTW I has no kids  

Are we sure that the mom was over the age of four though?

[JamesRobot | 5,799]

3 minutes ago, Quest4Nes said:

Well I would have just let my kid play with the kid because Im not concerned with kid transmission. Much more dangerous things to kids than covid. I think more damage is done to the kid with the behavior displayed over the course of this pandemic and virtual school etc. than covid ever would. To be honest Id rather my kid be around germs. Im a school teacher. I rarely get sick because I'm around nasty kids everyday.

That isn't the question.  Someone you don't like is invading your personal space in a public setting and annoying the piss out of you without physical contact.  It is their legal right to do so.  You gonna back down or you gonna tell them off? 

Both actions are legal.  It's not a matter of entitlement. 

[Richardhead | 2,813]

20 minutes ago, Code Monkey said:

Now that there is a pandemic, I choose not to go outside because I know they will not stop invading my space and I cannot tell them to take a different aisle in the grocery store so I just choose not to go.

So just don’t go to work? 

[Richardhead | 2,813]

I was wrong he didn’t just walk away.

[Richardhead | 2,813]

13 minutes ago, Quest4Nes said:

Im a school teacher.

Is that like “I’m a nurse”?

[JamesRobot | 5,799]

14 minutes ago, Richardhead said:

Is that like “I’m a nurse”?

My uncle works for Nintendo! 

[Richardhead | 2,813]

11 minutes ago, JamesRobot said:

My uncle works for Nintendo! 

I’m looking for a nice copy of MTPO. 3 screw, no box but the sleeve has to be unbranded. You got the hookup ?

Edited January 3, 2021 by Richardhead

[JamesRobot | 5,799]

I got you!!

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Mike-Tysons-Punch-Out-Nintendo-NES-Cartridge-And-Sleeve-Tested-Working/353333410395?epid=56209434&hash=item52444ffa5b:g:W0AAAOSwAp1f6Nr-

Edited January 3, 2021 by JamesRobot

[fcgamer | 4,723]

Masks definitely help, even on children. I work directly with this age group, and although they aren't perfect about not touching their face, etc, it has easily reduced the amount by half, if not more. 

Regarding the park incident, there's absolutely nothing wrong with telling the kid to get lost since he's maskless. If the kid is not breaking the law, then he can't be legally removed, but similarly, the physical action of making utterances come from your vocal chords asking the kid to leave is also just as legal.

If the mom gets bent over it, so be it. IMO, these kinds of people aren't used to having others call them out on such asshole behaviour. There's a pandemic going on, you can see the other family is on team mask, let it alone.

 

[Code Monkey | 2,006]

1 hour ago, JamesRobot said:

You have every right to tell someone to leave you alone in public.

Do you have sources for this information or is it your opinion? I could be wrong but I believe you don't have that right unless they're harassing you.

1 hour ago, JamesRobot said:

That isn't the question.  Someone you don't like is invading your personal space in a public setting and annoying the piss out of you without physical contact.  It is their legal right to do so.  You gonna back down or you gonna tell them off? 

Both actions are legal.  It's not a matter of entitlement. 

Someone harassing you is different from someone occupying the same area as you. If someone is sitting next to me, minding their own business and smoking a cigarette, I don't have the right to ask them to leave me alone. If they're leaning over and blowing it directly into my face, that falls under harassment and abuse in criminal law. You have the right to stop that.

If someone is following government mandated rules and occupying the same space as me but is completely obnoxious and annoying, I would simply leave, I wouldn't even say anything to them. People at adjacent restaurant tables annoy me all the time, I move to other tables or I don't go there. I don't have the right to say anything to them.

I'm not mad at you, I'm simply telling you what the law is and what's acceptable behaviour in public. Demanding that someone in public leave your area is not acceptable behaviour.

1 hour ago, Richardhead said:

So just don’t go to work? 

Work is covered under specific labour laws with different rights from those in public spaces. You are entitled to specific things in your work place to which you are not entitled in a public space.

 

 

If you're wondering what I would have done, here it is:

Tell the boy the same thing you did. Once the woman asked me if I said that to her boy, I would, very politely, let her know what I actually said just so she doesn't get the idea I was yelling at the kid and just let her know I would prefer not to take the risk. Hopefully we could talk about it and come to some sort of agreement to share the space at a greater distance or perhaps give her a few minutes in the area while I take my kid to another area close by, then switch off again in 10 minutes. These are things adults do to figure out how to share things, we don't give each other the finger because we don't like sharing. That's something a child does.

If the woman turned out to be unreasonable and doesn't want to figure out some sort of system to share the space, then you can always just call the local police and let them deal with it. If someone wants to argue with you, don't even bother, just call the police and let them handle it, it's nothing that has to concern you at all. Often times I'll simply and politely ask the person if they want me to call the police and let the police explain it to them, that usually ends any confrontation. On some occasions I've actually had to make the call as I'm heading out. That's what they're there for.

[Astor Reinhardt | 199]

CDC states kids 2 years and older should wear a mask so that kid should have worn a mask unless he had a medical reason not to. Same with the mom. She's a dumbass to not wear one. All people not wearing masks right now are dumbasses...again unless you have a REAL medical reason to not wear a mask...wear a god damn mask.

I could probably get away with saying I have a medical reason because I have bad lungs (had asthma as a kid and it turned into chronic bronchitis) and I really do struggle to breath in masks...I've gotten lightheaded sometimes. But I'd rather pass out in a mask then go without and risk covid.

[jonebone | 1,307]

Hey let me give you some real worthwhile advice if you want to read it.

Another person cannot make you angry.  You allow yourself to become angry and express anger in the way you see fit. 

Every human experiences anger and it is a normal emotion.  You have to identify your triggers then consciously remove them when you are in a non-angered state of mind.  The trigger here was you / your family's personal safety, and when the safety was in jeopardy, your body entered an angered state of mind. Fight or flight kicked in, and you verbally "fought" the battle in a way which you are a bit embarrassed about.

I don't care about the specific details here, but you did mention you were hot-headed and I'm sure you would agree you do not want your family to see you like this again.  Stop focusing about what was right or wrong in this situation and focus on how you can change your reaction to prevent this from happening again.

My direct advice in this situation, children's safety is a trigger for you (it is for a lot of parents). It's not about preventing yourself from ever becoming angry again (it will happen), it is about managing how you express anger, and reducing the risk of you being in angry situations.

If you know masks are a big deal, I would recommend avoiding the public play areas.  Retrain your brain a bit to think about how you would respond if a stranger without a mask approaches your kid again.  Make that a focus in 2021, expressing anger in a more healthy manner and you and your family will live a much improved life.  Anger causes an adrenalin release similar to getting a high, so it is important that your non-angered state of mind makes a conscious effort when your angered brain is not thinking logically.

Wish you the best as a fellow parent who tries to set the best example for his children.  

[TDIRunner | 2,734]

I won't defend the woman since her actions were pretty childish.  I believe she has the right to go to the park with her children without masks on.  However, she needs to respect others rights who want to wear a mask, especially in a situation where the park is big enough for everyone to play on their own (which it sounds like it was).  The only thing on the OPs side that I disagree with is the use of the middle finger.  At this point in my life, I consider it to be pretty childish.  If I see someone flipping the bird to another in a public setting and I didn't know anything else going on, I would assume the person flipping the bird lost an argument and had nothing else to fall back on.  

[spacepup | 2,404]

I think jonebone made some really good points, definitely worth keeping in mind as we navigate life.  And of course no one is going to be perfect at it - it's more a goal / mindset to try to achieve.

I'll add to that, that we should all give ourselves a little bit of a break this year - as we talk about social norms, most of which are established over a lifetime of experiences, let's remember that none of us have direct experience in dealing with a pandemic like this and the "new" social norms and expectations that we are dealing with this year, especially as different people have different opinions about what is right or wrong regarding behavior in public, mask compliance, etc.

So while I think you lost your cool a bit here, I think what is GOOD, is that you are processing it after and asking here - that shows at least a sort of maturity in evaluating your actions and trying to be better in the future.

Due to the very nature of an infectious virus, it is challenging all of us to question and think about where the boundary is between personal freedoms, respecting others, balancing risk versus safety, and so much more.  It's just a real challenge that we've been struggling with all year - politically, socially, economically.  

As horrible as things have been for so many (in a variety of different ways), I just hope that all of us are able to learn something from the experiences we've had over the last year, or take something positive away from everything.

[JamesRobot | 5,799]

7 hours ago, Code Monkey said:

Do you have sources for this information or is it your opinion?  I could be wrong but I believe you don't have that right unless they're harassing you.

Constitution of United States of America 1789 (rev. 1992)

Amendment I

Congress shall make no law... abridging the freedom of speech...

 

Also harassment is unwanted conduct based on specific protected classes.  Race, gender, disability, etc.  What if the conduct is unwanted but unrelated to protected status?  You would rather tuck tail and run than let the offender know that the action is unwanted?  These type of interactions inform people about how they should behave according to the social norms.  It can be as simple as:

You: Please leave me alone.

Me:  Oh sorry.  I didn't realize I was bothering you.  See you later.

 

Irregardless, one should respect other's peaceful existence in public even though there is no express law that forbids them from being a jerk.  It is not a matter of law, rather a matter of respect dictated by western societal mores.

Edited January 3, 2021 by JamesRobot

[Murray | 2,448]

Kid shoulda been body checked irregardless. 

[B.A. | 1,139]

16 hours ago, JamesRobot said:

Learn to drive! 

I heard kids can die in car accidents so I choose to avoid cars with my family.

[CodysGameRoom | 2,008]

11 hours ago, Quest4Nes said:

While I disagree with ...... masking in general

[Link | 2,709]

It’s party time.

https://news.yahoo.com/covid-wards-full-children-first-145710680.html

 

[Code Monkey | 2,006]

5 hours ago, JamesRobot said:

Constitution of United States of America 1789 (rev. 1992)

Amendment I

Congress shall make no law... abridging the freedom of speech...

 

Also harassment is unwanted conduct based on specific protected classes.  Race, gender, disability, etc.  What if the conduct is unwanted but unrelated to protected status?  You would rather tuck tail and run than let the offender know that the action is unwanted?  These type of interactions inform people about how they should behave according to the social norms.  It can be as simple as:

You: Please leave me alone.

Me:  Oh sorry.  I didn't realize I was bothering you.  See you later.

 

Irregardless, one should respect other's peaceful existence in public even though there is no express law that forbids them from being a jerk.  It is not a matter of law, rather a matter of respect dictated by western societal mores.

People are totally messing with me with the irregardless now. I laughed.

That's true but I think people misunderstand the first amendment (even though we don't have these amendments in Canada). Your right to free speech simply states that you can't be prosecuted for it like in other countries. There are places where you can go to jail if you say certain things or have certain beliefs but not in North America. It certainly is your right to request someone leave you alone, I was just saying it's not your right to try and force someone to leave you alone. I may have misunderstood.

Just like I can ask the smelly jogger to move away from me but if he refuses, I don't have the right to force him.

Overall I find this discussion incredibly interesting. I have a lot of trouble understanding social situations for various reasons so reading how someone else would react in this situation helps me understand a lot of confusing interactions I've had previously.

[Code Monkey | 2,006]

It looks like this discussion is veering wildly so I'm curious if you want to have input on an interaction I had recently, I'm very interested in how you would have reacted since it appears we think very differently.

You're at a store and there's a lineup outside because the store occupancy is at limit. One person comes out, one person goes in. A sign on the door states the government mandated restriction of 9 maximum persons allowed in this particular store at one time. You get to the front of the line, one person comes out, you go in and you count 12 total persons inside, plus employees. Do you stay inside or do you go back outside to follow the rules?

If you do go back outside, you are now first in line to go inside once 3 persons come out. Another customer parks their car, bypasses the line and asks you to excuse him so he can go inside, grab some free items placed 4 metres inside and then leave again. Do you let him in?

[Gloves | 11,776]

6 minutes ago, Code Monkey said:

It looks like this discussion is veering wildly so I'm curious if you want to have input on an interaction I had recently, I'm very interested in how you would have reacted since it appears we think very differently.

You're at a store and there's a lineup outside because the store occupancy is at limit. One person comes out, one person goes in. A sign on the door states the government mandated restriction of 9 maximum persons allowed in this particular store at one time. You get to the front of the line, one person comes out, you go in and you count 12 total persons inside, plus employees. Do you stay inside or do you go back outside to follow the rules?

If you do go back outside, you are now first in line to go inside once 3 persons come out. Another customer parks their car, bypasses the line and asks you to excuse him so he can go inside, grab some free items placed 4 metres inside and then leave again. Do you let him in?

I tell him to get to the back of the line and I call the police if it escalates beyond that.

[Richardhead | 2,813]

24 minutes ago, Code Monkey said:

It looks like this discussion is veering wildly so I'm curious if you want to have input on an interaction I had recently, I'm very interested in how you would have reacted since it appears we think very differently.

You're at a store and there's a lineup outside because the store occupancy is at limit. One person comes out, one person goes in. A sign on the door states the government mandated restriction of 9 maximum persons allowed in this particular store at one time. You get to the front of the line, one person comes out, you go in and you count 12 total persons inside, plus employees. Do you stay inside or do you go back outside to follow the rules?

If you do go back outside, you are now first in line to go inside once 3 persons come out. Another customer parks their car, bypasses the line and asks you to excuse him so he can go inside, grab some free items placed 4 metres inside and then leave again. Do you let him in?

I make a scene, probably get into a verbal altercation, stand my ground if it gets physical and end up waiting even longer to get whatever it was I needed because of the whole situation. 
Probably should have just let him get his free shit.....

Yes, I’ve been in these kinds of situations the last 9 months.... many times unfortunately.