WATA shouldn't call a CIB for just the Box, Booklet and Game

[Gloves | 11,760]

Just now, FenrirZero said:

Seeing how most sellers treat anything graded, I totally agree with the way you feel! But there are cases where CIB is the only option. So when things like that do happen I am fine with it as long as nothing is being exploited.

Now grading digital games? I'm totally against that. 

I think the cases where CIB, or more likely Loose, are the only options, I think I have no issue really. We're talking NWC carts and such at that point, and yeah there's at least some argument to be made for preservation in that regard.

But if we're talking grading a nice CIB Batman Returns, I just see that as a nice playable copy someone is now going to miss out on. And it sucks too cuz these games WERE within the realm of affordability for picking up a really nice CIB, AND being able to play your nice copy.

I'm glad I picked up the games I did prior to the recent hikes, but man there's some relatively obscure shit I'm after at this point that is just getting so painfully expensive.

[YOURTURN | 1,256]

14 minutes ago, Gloves said:

I think the cases where CIB, or more likely Loose, are the only options, I think I have no issue really. We're talking NWC carts and such at that point, and yeah there's at least some argument to be made for preservation in that regard.

But if we're talking grading a nice CIB Batman Returns, I just see that as a nice playable copy someone is now going to miss out on. And it sucks too cuz these games WERE within the realm of affordability for picking up a really nice CIB, AND being able to play your nice copy.

I'm glad I picked up the games I did prior to the recent hikes, but man there's some relatively obscure shit I'm after at this point that is just getting so painfully expensive.

My feeling with that CIB Batman Returns has me feel like the collector could have been the original owner. Or that he wanted a nice copy but could not afford to buy a sealed/graded specimen. But even if neither are the case that owner has the legal right to both own and play the game in ROM format. Which makes it a good excuse to own a MAME. 

As for price hikes, I found out that one of the Japanese online stores I casually visit has a sealed copy of 'Persona 3 Portable' priced at $683.09 USD. The "PSP the Best" version goes for $105.18 USD there. With the version I want (Persona 3 FES) going for $134.80 USD (more on eBay) when it comes to the "PS2 the Best" version. 

So yeah... I totally relate to what you are dealing with. 

[jonebone | 1,307]

A couple of points that I thought were worth addressing.  Too many to quote people:

1) Grade Variability

 I've seen games from both grading companies where I don't necessarily agree with the grade.  But that's normal, grading is subjective and if you asked 10 experts to grade a game I doubt you'd get the same exact 10 answers.  End of day, if you believe in a company, you do so because you find yourself agreeing with them "most of the time".  Or, for some people who don't have the patience or experience to develop an eye, they just buy the grade, effectively agreeing 100% of the time.

2) "Completeness" of Games

I love having 100% complete games and hate that it is reduced to a box when graded, realistically speaking.  And while inserts / styros / baggies / phamplets / etc. are important to document, realistically the Game Specific Inserts affect price much more than generic ones.  People pay more for a Kid Klown complete with poster but not so much a fully complete random Akklaim game.  I do think a fully complete game of even a common will outsell by at least $5-$10 if well pictured, yet when the cost of grading a CIB is $75+, that stuff is white noise.  From a value standpoint its RPGs with their maps, games with their specific posters, etc.  The grading is more valued focused so they're doing what they can for now at least.  It's a compromise but better than nothing.

3) Taking away from the CIB ungraded pool

Personally I find myself buying a playable CIB and a graded CIB if the game is meaningful enough.  Let's face it, if you have some Gem Mint box where the hinge feels tight and basically opened once or twice, do you really want to be opening that up a lot to play?  Probably not.  For me, it makes sense to grade that and buy another average shape to have playable, or to have for my "set".  Then the Mint copy is elevated to more of a collection piece.  If a CIB collector is truly a gamer, I suspect they would rather have the Excellent / Near Mint copy at a discount to the true Gem Mint CIB copy (with an increased price), as that would be more playable.  

Either way, CIB grading is not for everyone and it's taken me awhile to come around to it.  The way I've accepted it is by having a CIB playable of anything I'd want to play, and graded CIBs are collection pieces.  If the game is good I can aspire for one of each. 

[GPX | 1,369]

On 12/31/2020 at 11:23 PM, jonebone said:

You can be both too.  I like set collecting as ungraded CIBs.  Then I also like a nice Mint graded CIB in general.  The collector in me would keep the graded CIB and probably buy back a fill in ungraded CIB for the set.

There's pros and cons of each.  I didn't like CIB grading at first as the whole point of CIB was for the game to be playable (in my eyes).  Yet I also realize I haven't played the vast majority of my collection and likely never will.  So if I have something super Mint, then I may as well grade it.

I also always thought the most beautiful part of a CIB was seeing it photographed with all the contents on fully complete items.  The graded CIB trivializes the importance of it, but in theory the matrix should eventually show all pre graded contents.  If the general buyer pool doesn't care that is fine, but I would care as a collector and I would specifically market those contents if actively trying to sell it.  

In my eyes, I'm confident that the CIB graded market has awhile to go towards maturity.  I bet we'll see some changes at some point in the not too distant future and it will become more transparent over time. 

Yeah I can also see some being in the “both” camps. Graded CIBs make sense to me for mostly the mint stuff, anything that is commonly found in pre-owned form doesn’t seem to be a good enough reason to grade in my opinion. 

I really don’t mind what people do with their money, though I have an issue with people jumping into these graded CIB market without much clues to investing in collectibles, and would rather hear their speculative minds being reinforced by sellers of graded games, rather than opinions of the video games collecting community as a whole.

[Dr. Morbis | 2,088]

On 1/3/2021 at 7:35 AM, jonebone said:

If a CIB collector is truly a gamer, I suspect they would rather have the Excellent / Near Mint copy at a discount to the true Gem Mint CIB copy (with an increased price), as that would be more playable. 

I agree with most of what you wrote, but I just want to point out that not all CIB collectors who are gamers are dumb enough to keep their carts in their boxes.  As someone who is both a gamer and collector, I keep my NES boxes on shelves, carts under glass, and manuals in binders, so playing a game, for me, never involves repeated handling of the game's box in any way.  Furthermore, now that pretty much all serious CIB collectors keep their NES boxes in box protectors, storing the carts in their original boxes would mean having to open two boxes every time you wanted to play a game; and that would just be silly