POLL: Who do you expect will win? (NOT who do you want to win)

[Californication | 1,477]

7 minutes ago, B.A. said:

I'm curious your definition of hard-core liberal.  Harris co-sponsored the green new deal and is for Medicare for all. She has moderated some of her stances, or at least not shown a spotlight on them since being selected to run as vice president. She is however historically pretty dang far left of center.

Harris went back on saying she is for medicare for all. Also, when they asked her if she was progressive in the primary she laughed because she was playing politics for the nominatiin. Yes, she signed on for a green new deal. She let Steve Mnuchin off on his financial crimes when she was the AG in California. Also, wall street loves her.

At the end of the day she doesn't seem to have any values, but she will do what she is paid to do or what will offer her the most return in the future.

Edited November 8, 2020 by Californication

[Tulpa | 3,488]

17 minutes ago, B.A. said:

I'm curious your definition of hard-core liberal.  Harris co-sponsored the green new deal and is for Medicare for all. She has moderated some of her stances, or at least not shown a spotlight on them since being selected to run as vice president. She is however historically pretty dang far left of center.

Look at her compared to the other choices Biden had for a woman VP. She's nowhere near as left as Warren or any of the other choices, really, and even compared to some of the men who were in the primary. Yes, she's left, and checks off several of the left boxes, but if you think she's "hardcore liberal," you're looking at her from a very right leaning lens. Biden got a lot of flack from progressives for not picking someone more left, but she was actually the safest choice. As a Democratic ticket, it's pretty bland compared to what could have been.

But at the end of the day, I don't see us going full tilt into socialism. Especially with a reduced Democratic footprint in the House and a possibly still Republican Senate. If you look at it as a business deal, everyone got something, and everyone walked away a little disappointed. Might be for the best, all things considered.

Edited November 8, 2020 by Tulpa

[B.A. | 1,139]

3 minutes ago, Tulpa said:

Look at her compared to the other choices Biden had for a woman VP. She's nowhere near as left as Warren or any of the other choices, really, and even compared to some of the men who were in the primary. Yes, she's left, and checks off several of the left boxes, but if you think she's "hardcore liberal," you're looking at her from a very right leaning lens. Biden got a lot of flack from progressives for not picking someone more left, but she was actually the safest choice.

If Medicare for all and the green new deal are centrist positions then sure. Of women in the primary Klobuchar would have been the more moderate choice. I'm not saying it's right, wrong or indifferent, but a lot of apprehension I heard from people is that Harris is too far left and they are afraid Biden won't make 4 years. 

[Tulpa | 3,488]

I suspect Klobuchar was the first pick, but then the George Floyd stuff happened and you had to get a woman of color in there. Not saying that's the best way to pick a VP, but politics live and die on what's going on in the here and now.

And while I get that people are concerned for Biden's health, I don't think he's in any danger of not living out his term. His dad lived until 87, he's always had the stutter (seriously, look at him twenty years ago and now, he's the same), and he's certainly fitter than Trump*. It's all been scare tactics by the right to paint him (and Harris) as bad choices. A year from now no one will be talking about it.

I mean, remember how he was painted as "creepy Joe," that went nowhere, so they went after Hunter? It's all political posturing.

 

*and no, I didn't think Trump was going to drop dead mid-term. Though I do wonder how much longer he'll live beyond 2021.

Edited November 8, 2020 by Tulpa

[Californication | 1,477]

I just listened to the Biden Harris acceptance speeches and they were pretty bad imo. Biden managed to talk for 15 min saying next to nothing. The only positive I took was that they would change the response to the corona virus and let the conservative give bad policy the same way obama did. And the two democrats he named John Corcoran and the other guy, they are two of the most conservative democrats. If there is a close vote these are two of the guys that will hold it up. 

Edit: I really hope the point of that speech is to push the blame on Republicans when they don't pass things in the Senate.

Edited November 8, 2020 by Californication

[mbd39 | 2,017]

17 minutes ago, Tulpa said:

I suspect Klobuchar was the first pick, but then the George Floyd stuff happened and you had to get a woman of color in there. Not saying that's the best way to pick a VP, but politics live and die on what's going on in the here and now.

And while I get that people are concerned for Biden's health, I don't think he's in any danger of not living out his term. His dad lived until 87, he's always had the stutter (seriously, look at him twenty years ago and now, he's the same), and he's certainly fitter than Trump*. It's all been scare tactics by the right to paint him (and Harris) as bad choices. A year from now no one will be talking about it.

I mean, remember how he was painted as "creepy Joe," that went nowhere, so they went after Hunter? It's all political posturing.

 

*and no, I didn't think Trump was going to drop dead mid-term. Though I do wonder how much longer he'll live beyond 2021.

I remember conservatives making it look like Hillary was at death's door when she was running against Trump.

 

[B.A. | 1,139]

41 minutes ago, Tulpa said:

I suspect Klobuchar was the first pick, but then the George Floyd stuff happened and you had to get a woman of color in there. Not saying that's the best way to pick a VP, but politics live and die on what's going on in the here and now.

And while I get that people are concerned for Biden's health, I don't think he's in any danger of not living out his term. His dad lived until 87, he's always had the stutter (seriously, look at him twenty years ago and now, he's the same), and he's certainly fitter than Trump*. It's all been scare tactics by the right to paint him (and Harris) as bad choices. A year from now no one will be talking about it.

I mean, remember how he was painted as "creepy Joe," that went nowhere, so they went after Hunter? It's all political posturing.

 

*and no, I didn't think Trump was going to drop dead mid-term. Though I do wonder how much longer he'll live beyond 2021.

Yep, I agree with all of that.

I do think this election was more of a rejection of Trump's personality not his policies. There are lots of people out there who view Harris and AOC as one in the same. Those defund the police attack ads worked to scare people.

[RegularGuyGamer | 2,011]

1 hour ago, B.A. said:

I'm curious your definition of hard-core liberal.  Harris co-sponsored the green new deal and is for Medicare for all. She has moderated some of her stances, or at least not shown a spotlight on them since being selected to run as vice president. She is however historically pretty dang far left of center.

Yeah Harris has the most liberal voting record ever. She has a further left voting history them Bernie Sanders.

Ppl just read that she's not that far left and don't look it up on their own I think. Just goes to show why we need to make a conscious effort to stay informed. 

Edited November 8, 2020 by RegularGuyGamer

[RegularGuyGamer | 2,011]

27 minutes ago, B.A. said:

I mean, remember how he was painted as "creepy Joe," that went nowhere, so they went after Hunter? It's all political posturing

I think he did a good job of painting himself that way. And his campaign did a good job of soliciting to YouTube to scrub the videos from searches. 

[ThePhleo | 2,184]

I’m still a right leaning centrist. But like many people on this side of the aisle said 4 years ago:

He’s your president. Get used to it.

We are not “The States of America” we are The UNITED States of America.

At the end of the day we’re all Americans living in this country and should give our president our full support. After all, his success translates to our prosperity.

We May have our faults, and we may have had a bad history. But our country is one like no other in the planet, or in the history of mankind.

We are the nation of 50 nations. We are the nation where every man and woman can do and be whatever they want. We are the land of opportunities, the land of prosperity, and the land of freedom.

I pray for Joe Biden to have the wisdom, strength, and favor of God to lead us into greatness these next 4 years.

May his presidency show all nations of the earth that the United States of America is still the beacon of freedom, liberty, and justice.

[Quest4Nes | 376]

4 hours ago, Tulpa said:

No one on the right gave Obama a chance. McConnell swore that the number one agenda for his Senate was to make sure Obama was a one-term president. No trying to compromise or get beneficial bipartisan legislation done. And the right wing media attacked Obama for the color of his suit and that he liked Dijon mustard (because there wasn't anything else to attack.)

It'd be the perfect opportunity for the right to break the cycle and actually work with a dude they've known for decades, who isn't particularly hardcore liberal (and neither is Harris) and get some work done in this country; word has it there's still a crippling pandemic going on, and it would be a welcome change from Trump's policy of "ignore COVID and maybe it'll go away."

But I guess having a guy that can "own the libs" and attack PC culture was more important than actual bipartisan leadership.

 

Trump could have cured cancer, and theyd have whined that he killed doctor jobs.

 

Harris was rated the most liberal senator.

 

I know joe bidens political career his opinions go with the wind of DC, but What part of joe biden isnt progressive now? He doesnt have real beliefs or convictions either.  1995 Joe might not be progressive in todays sense. But what part of climate change, social justice, economic, gun legislation, and evrrything else isnt heavy left now? Cmon man! Biden just says whatever is politically convenient.

 

If you disagree with trump I dobt even care, but I do care at people looking at things more objectively and with some sense of self awareness. Seeing a bunch of the opposite this week.

Edited November 8, 2020 by Quest4Nes

[Californication | 1,477]

2 hours ago, B.A. said:

Yep, I agree with all of that.

I do think this election was more of a rejection of Trump's personality not his policies. There are lots of people out there who view Harris and AOC as one in the same. Those defund the police attack ads worked to scare people.

I think many people are reading the opposite. 

$15 minimum wage passed in Florida, that's a progressive agenda. 

Drug decriminalization happened across the country - progressive agenda.

And the progressives with the most progrssive campaigns won with some of the biggest margins while the moderate/conservative democrats overwhelmingly lost their house races.

Edited November 8, 2020 by Californication

[Quest4Nes | 376]

17 minutes ago, Californication said:

I think many people are reading the opposite. 

$15 minimum wage passed in Florida, that's a progressive agenda. 

Drug decriminalization happened across the country - progressive agenda.

And the progressives with the most progrssive campaigns won with some of the biggest margins while the moderate/conservative democrats overwhelmingly lost their house races.

Not one state house legislature seat flipped in the entire country from red to blue. Democrats besides biden had a really bad night. Trump easily would have beaten a perceived more progressive candidate. No matter what your echo chsmber is telling you, the progressive movement is a dead end. It doesnt line up with a majority of america. Sorry bud. You camt nitpick the librrtarian aspects of the progressive agenda(drugs)and champion them as everyone wants progressivism. Its the rest of the bs thst comes with it. The country rejects it.

The large margins you claim... probably from blue orange man bad states. Big whoop. This will prpbably end my conversation with yiu. Really dont enjoy conversing with you after you very clearly said back on NA that only you cared about tge country and anyone who didnt agree with you wasnt pro america and bad people. Youll never conceed or give creedance to even one opposing viewpoint ever. 

Edited November 8, 2020 by Quest4Nes

[Californication | 1,477]

30 minutes ago, Quest4Nes said:

Not one state house legislature seat flipped in the entire country from red to blue. Democrats besides biden had a really bad night. Trump easily would have beaten a perceived more progressive candidate. No matter what your echo chsmber is telling you, the progressive movement is a dead end. It doesnt line up with a majority of america. Sorry bud. You camt nitpick the librrtarian aspects of the progressive agenda(drugs)and champion them as everyone wants progressivism. Its the rest of the bs thst comes with it. The country rejects it.

The large margins you claim... probably from blue orange man bad states. Big whoop. This will prpbably end my conversation with yiu. Really dont enjoy conversing with you after you very clearly said back on NA that only you cared about tge country and anyone who didnt agree with you wasnt pro america and bad people. Youll never conceed or give creedance to even one opposing viewpoint ever. 

I agree that Democrats besides Biden had a bad night. And the reason they had a bad night is because they ran on Liberal/Centrist ideas that will fail to help the average person. Progressives knew they would get blamed for this election we called this over a year ago. We are the scape goat for the corporate democrats the same as we were in 2016.

You don't think people care about progressives? Illhan Omar is the one that turned out the base in Michigan to win the state. And I don't think Stacy Abrams is progressive, but she used progressive ideas to help turn out the vote in Georgia.

AOC won her district by 68.8%. Illhan Omar won by 64.6%. 

You can't find two Libertarians that agree on the same thing. I've heard some of them agree with progressives on getting out of foreign wars and decriminalizing drugs. If progressives are pushing for it then it is clearly their policy. I don't know who came up with it first, but that is kind of a stupid thing to argue about anyway.

And single payer - a progressive idea is one of the most popular ideas in America so you clearly don't know what you're talking about. And minimum wage is now winning in multiple states, that is the opposite of libertarianism.

White women and white men voted for Trump by bigger margins than ever before, that is why the race was close. The democrats and lincoln project tried to bring over white affluent/suburban people and they failed.

Edited November 8, 2020 by Californication

[Quest4Nes | 376]

Trump won more share of the non white vote than any republican since 1960. 

 

 

You just regurgitated progressive talking points from krystal ball when i heard a clip from the hill. It was literally what you said to a T lol. It was pretty funny hearing after i read your post.

I know you have to be informed somewhere. You can copy the homework but dont make it look the same XD

Edited November 8, 2020 by Quest4Nes

[Californication | 1,477]

5 hours ago, Quest4Nes said:

Trump won more share of the non white vote than any republican since 1960. 

 

 

You just regurgitated progressive talking points from krystal ball when i heard a clip from the hill. It was literally what you said to a T lol. It was pretty funny hearing after i read your post.

I know you have to be informed somewhere. You can copy the homework but dont make it look the same XD

It is partly from them. I left out the part I disagreed with. On rising they are repating that hispanics and blacks had a low voter turnout and trump did better with them.

Juan Gonzalez on Democracy now showed that Trump did well in Florida and Texas with the specific group of hispanics that generally vote conservative anyways.

Since Trump did better than Biden with whites and there was increased voter turn out that went to Biden it had to have come from the minorities, especially Blacks and Hispanics. 

And the Lincoln Project info. was mostly from the Majority Report and Crystal Ball had a similar opinion following them.

 

Edited November 9, 2020 by Californication

[Quest4Nes | 376]

I wouldnt get my takes from ball on progressive movement. She is a bernie bro so of course she thinks that way. 

 

I disagree totally with her that bernie would have beaten trump. Suburban whites, especially women ,wouldnt move to bernie. Hes very easy to run against. Whether you agree with him or not. Its easy to frame an argument against bernie sanders.

People voted against trump because i feel they were comfortable with biden. Not really for biden. That comfort doesnt translate to bernie. 

 

Its not hard to understand that progressives won by big margins in some areas. In a record turn out year in a deep blue state of course you are going to get those results. Id hardly say its pro progressive movement. To interpret it that way is looking at it in a vacuum and not psying attention to the rest of the country. Its fine to mention the race in those instances but probsbly not a good indicator of bellwether for the country.

Edited November 8, 2020 by Quest4Nes

[Tanooki | 4,930]

I'm sure someone will come back with a witty retort here, but I'm going to lay this one out there.

I didn't vote for the guy to get him in in the first place at all, thought him and witch both sucked.  The only thing I ever did like about him, he wasn't a politician but a businessman.  Whether you want to nitpick how he did business or bounced off a bankruptcy, I could not care less.  The thing is, I still like that about him, but this time, qualified so.  Unlike a lot of scum in suits from either side who make a bunch of comments and almost do none of them, he actually did knock off some pretty nice things, and even some that never were brought up that were highly unexpected.

First time since old bush or clinton I forget, but got 3 muslim countries to actually make peace with Israel and opened up flights, civility, working together and more are looking at it as a sign to do so as well.  Both sides also paid sad lip service about moving the embassy to Jerusalem, he did it, then others found a backbone and started to follow.  Not that it ended ideally well, but at least we tried openly talking with North Korea for the first time ever to see if things could be worked out, at least an attempt was made.  Also the first president in decades not to suck us into a new war on foreign soil too which was nice for once.  Like it or not how he did it, he got us a better trade deal than the shitty NAFTA and helped bring more business operations and jobs back into the US.  Maybe a huge dick about it, and harmful up front, but put the screws to China instead of bending over and smiling, not taking their thefts, gross trade imbalances, and bs so well.  The vote shows his so called bluster about standing up for what the DNC used to claim to worked, largest turn out of minority voters for the Republican candidate, and in his 4 years the lowest unemployment and highest penny to the dollar pay for minorities (latino and black in particular) which is good.  He bullied our NATO partners into paying their mandated 2GDP fair share instead of us paying it for them.  Helped rebuild the military and smoother operations of the VA which was sadly needed.

Yes he was nearly a complete piece of human shit on twitter almost always, the attitude could have gone, but I can't say I blame him in the slightest for speaking his mind either when the press seemed to make it a mission to not be reporters but attack dogs for 4 years at his throat from the moment the victory was called.  He's already nuts, that just made him more paranoid and enabled.  Hell had they just ignored him online and not reported on his account like ever, it probably would have driven him insane not getting all the attention.

I am not going to touch this stolen election dementia at all.  I will though say, the DNC can wholeheartedly in the end, due to the slim margins in multiple states thank China for the win, well, not the country, but their Communist Party.  They allowed that virus to fester and run rampant to protect their own internal self image and control over the population.  This includes the a-holes at the WHO who due to a pro-China policy ignored the warnings from Taiwan who saw it, called it, requested the WHO do something to stop it and got ghosted.  Had it not spread, it would not have allowed all those tiring asinine and quite frankly new low disgusting ads going out there blaming Trump for every single death which is bluntly put a fucking lie.  He said some really dumb shit at times about the virus, some in jest (cleaner shots) and others stupidly serious.  He closes flights from China early and he's a racist xenophobe, then when it looked like it was right, then he supposedly didn't do what he did, and when he as the US is designed to do allowed states rights to determine virus policy he got hammered as well -- clearly can't win with that spin control.

Nothing works better than lies mixed with sadness as it eats at emotion and clouds judgement.  If you see two old farts running for high office, and one guy is in charge, the other is saying he either killed your family, a friend, or someone you know from a friend -- that shit sticks.  Genius, and disgustingly low, yet albeit probably the single handed best hit job they could do.  Imagine if there was no virus, the election would have had an EC margin as set as before if not more and likely a win in the popular vote too given how close it is and with record turn out.  All they needed was to find those sad and angry votes over the deaths, policy, accomplishments, job and unemployment gains, etc matter for not.  Virus + Emotional swindling = WIN.

[Quest4Nes | 376]

For sure. Robinette won because of virus manipulation of the public at its finest.

 

Really no other contributing factor imo. 

[Reed Rothchild | 9,510]

Does anyone actually think that America was on a path of sustainable success going into this election?  Does anyone actually think that being at each other's throats on everything all the time was going to return us to "greatness?"  Lament the loss all you want, but there are reasons that it happened, whether you like it or not.

Don't worry though, we have plenty of next generation psychopaths that were empowered by his "divide and conquer strategy", all of whom will be carrying his torch so they can make a run at ruining our country in 2022 and 2024.

No other contributing factors... LOL

 

[Tulpa | 3,488]

Man, some of you guys are salty. It's going to be a long bunch of years for you.

Edited November 9, 2020 by Tulpa

[Reed Rothchild | 9,510]

Just now, Tulpa said:

Man, some of you guys are salty. It's going to be a long bunch of years for you.

The irony being that certain users repeatedly claimed that we "never even gave Trump a chance."  I'd wager any amount of money that Biden will never be given a chance with... oh, about 45% of our population 

Our brave new world of politics.  Set your expectations low.

[fcgamer | 4,719]

6 minutes ago, Reed Rothchild said:

Does anyone actually think that America was on a path of sustainable success going into this election?  Does anyone actually think that being at each other's throats on everything all the time was going to return us to "greatness?"  Lament the loss all you want, but there are reasons that it happened, whether you like it or not.

Don't worry though, we have plenty of next generation psychopaths that were empowered by his "divide and conquer strategy", all of whom will be carrying his torch so they can make a run at ruining our country in 2022 and 2024.

No other contributing factors... LOL

 

You guys should have accepted the Hillary loss in 2016. No point to give creepy Biden a chance if the Dems wouldn't give Trumpster a chance.

[Reed Rothchild | 9,510]

1 minute ago, fcgamer said:

You guys should have accepted the Hillary loss in 2016. No point to give creepy Biden a chance if the Dems wouldn't give Trumpster a chance.

I voted for Gary Johnson in 2016, and gave Trump props in 2017 and 2018 for his effect on the economy.

I've also stated repeatedly that his reelection was a slam dunk if he hadn't shit the bad in 2020 so badly.

But hey, you tell yourself whatever story you need to   It makes no difference, our country is too dysfunctional to ever get along again.  Thanks to assholes like Trump.

[Reed Rothchild | 9,510]

...in fact, all of the crying about Trump being a horrible human being who sexually assaults women's' "pussies" and cheats on his wife with porn stars is gonna be NOTHING compared to what we'll see next year.  We thought the Obama birthers were bad?  The "Election-Cheaters" are gonna bring a whole new meaning to the word pain.  There are many people (and politicians, and media figures) who will NEVER accept this election, or Biden as their president.