docile tapeworm | 4,198 Posted July 29, 2020 Share Posted July 29, 2020 @JamesRobot sorry bud i get a lil worked up. prob shouldnt have mentioned my cuz. every situation is not the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arch_8ngel | 1,597 Posted July 29, 2020 Share Posted July 29, 2020 On 7/24/2020 at 3:06 PM, Gloves said: - there should not be a minimum age to purchase alcohol. Really? You're OK with young-and-dumb kids stopping into the convenience store on their way home from school and buying booze? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesRobot | 5,793 Events Team · Posted July 29, 2020 Share Posted July 29, 2020 9 minutes ago, docile tapeworm said: @JamesRobot sorry bud i get a lil worked up. prob shouldnt have mentioned my cuz. every situation is not the same. Not even sweatin it. Sux about your cuz but I also got no respect for junkies. Got a little sympathy tho. Actually I'm more on the side of fewer laws surrounding drugs. No crime against self. The problem is junkies' behavior will often cross the line and infringe on others' rights. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesRobot | 5,793 Events Team · Posted July 29, 2020 Share Posted July 29, 2020 On 7/24/2020 at 4:03 PM, docile tapeworm said: Didn't even see this. Love Steppenwolf and this is my favorite song. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arch_8ngel | 1,597 Posted July 29, 2020 Share Posted July 29, 2020 4 minutes ago, JamesRobot said: Actually I'm more on the side of fewer laws surrounding drugs. No crime against self. The problem is junkies' behavior will often cross the line and infringe on others' rights. There is also the very reasonable stance of preventing children from purchasing things they can't make informed decisions about and may be much more damaging to them than to adults. Unless people are suggesting that parents should have some kind of iron grip on their kids that would prevent them ever having an opportunity to make a purchase in a corner store or grocery store alone. Or that somehow only failed parents would have kids that would make inappropriate use of alcohol in the first place while they are too young to appreciate the consequences. It's not some kind of nanny-state issue to have a minimum age for procuring drugs of any kind. It is reasonable recognition that kids need some amount of independence from the direct oversight of their parents, and during that time, we've collectively agreed that it is a societal good to limit their ability to make certain kinds of stupid decisions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gloves | 11,771 Administrator · Posted July 29, 2020 Share Posted July 29, 2020 13 minutes ago, arch_8ngel said: Really? You're OK with young-and-dumb kids stopping into the convenience store on their way home from school and buying booze? They're gonna get it one way or another. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arch_8ngel | 1,597 Posted July 29, 2020 Share Posted July 29, 2020 (edited) 13 minutes ago, Gloves said: They're gonna get it one way or another. Well that is a cynical oversimplification of reality. It is one thing for high school kids to figure out some kind of access to booze (obviously easier in a countries with an 18 y.o. drinking age, as well) But you think some curious 5th grader (or even an 8th grader) is "gonna get it one way or another"? SOME kids will have some kind of limited access through people around them being either shitty parents are delinquent older siblings. But is is FAR from universal, versus your vision of them being able to walk into a corner store and buy a handle of cheap vodka. There is absolutely zero legitimate reason for underage kids to have access to alcohol or any other recreational drugs for that matter. Adults are adults and can make their own choices about their comfort with the consequences of use and abuse. Kids are kids and fundamentally lack the judgment necessary for that kind of decision making. Part of society's responsibility to kids is to protect them from certain kinds of life altering stupid decisions they might make. Let's phrase the issue another way -- do you think the death rate, or even just the hospitalization rate, of kids due to alcohol would be higher or lower if kids could freely buy booze? Otherwise intelligent kids do all kinds of stupid impulsive stuff on a dare BECAUSE THEY ARE KIDS. Edited July 29, 2020 by arch_8ngel 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spacepup | 2,404 Administrator · Posted July 29, 2020 Share Posted July 29, 2020 I agree with arch on this one. Young children should not have easy access to drugs and alcohol - and the "they're gonna get it anyway" argument is not something I can really get behind, just like with guns. I think we have responsibilities to put at least SOME deterrents and regulations around incredibly dangerous substances. SOME of them may get it anyway, but not all of them. Drug addiction and alcohol addiction are serious problems in this country - perhaps worse in some areas than others - and while I think there can be such a thing a over-regulation to the point of it causing other macro-issues, I think this is a scenario where most people agree we should at least have some limits on minors' ability to purchase and/or use them, given the incredibly powerful, addictive, and dangerous nature of what we're talking about. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magus | 169 Posted July 29, 2020 Share Posted July 29, 2020 11 minutes ago, Gloves said: They're gonna get it one way or another. sure, but why make it easier right? And very likely increase the numbers of incidents involving alcohol and minors, both severe and not. Criminals still get guns illegally, but we still have background checks and safety measures to at least try and make it harder for them. Having extra hurdles to jump through just makes it a little harder, and pain in the ass, but of course not impossible As for the OP, drugs have completely ruined my family thanks to a sibling being addicted to this day. I wouldn't wish a relative becoming an addict on my worst enemy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gloves | 11,771 Administrator · Posted July 29, 2020 Share Posted July 29, 2020 Hmmmm, to double down... or admit naivety? I think my thinking when I wrote that was a little different than what I intended to actually say. I retract the statement, it was a bit extreme compared to my actual thoughts. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arch_8ngel | 1,597 Posted July 29, 2020 Share Posted July 29, 2020 3 minutes ago, Gloves said: Hmmmm, to double down... or admit naivety? I think my thinking when I wrote that was a little different than what I intended to actually say. I retract the statement, it was a bit extreme compared to my actual thoughts. Well I'm curious to hear your actual thoughts, then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docile tapeworm | 4,198 Posted July 29, 2020 Share Posted July 29, 2020 40 minutes ago, JamesRobot said: Not even sweatin it. Sux about your cuz but I also got no respect for junkies. Got a little sympathy tho. Actually I'm more on the side of fewer laws surrounding drugs. No crime against self. The problem is junkies' behavior will often cross the line and infringe on others' rights. thanks. i understand a little heart for them as im no sober bird. couldnt agree more with the latter statement. your right drugs can influence a persons behavior leading to negatively affecting innocent people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gloves | 11,771 Administrator · Posted July 29, 2020 Share Posted July 29, 2020 3 minutes ago, arch_8ngel said: Well I'm curious to hear your actual thoughts, then. Frankly I was being a bit cynical there, I grew up in a shit area with shit parents and just overall shitty shit shit sharoo. The long and short is that MY experience has been that these rules around age and buying stuff is: Laws against buying things do nothing to stop kids from getting it Conversely, the rules themselves make it edgy/cool to subvert Kids I know could go to the store and just pay a bit extra to get this stuff, and it was the hip thing to do in my area. I'll admit to having tried some basic booze as a kid and I just didn't like it at all, it tasted gross, so I avoided it. I was never too worried about being cool so it didn't impact me in that "push through it and acquire the taste" kinda way. Long story short I'm a bit biased on it. It just took seeing some other folks talking about their opinions on it for me to remember my experience isn't the one experience. I feel that if it weren't so cool to break the rules, kids would be less interested in it. It's admittedly a relatively naive idea. Removing the limits altogether are perhaps extreme; I think a good alt would be like I said - get some learning in school on the impact of these things. I've been out of school for a long time obviously, but at least when I was in school the lessons on drugs/alcohol were pretty poor IMO. Needs fewer scare tactics, and more real science. I don't HAVE kids so I have no clue what it's like today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Link | 2,709 Posted July 29, 2020 Share Posted July 29, 2020 I think most drugs should be legalized, regulated, and taxed. Prohibition doesn’t work and leads to violent gangs controlling illicit substances. The war on drugs has completely failed. Get it out in the open. At the very least there would be a legitimized channel without adulterated product, and the government [would] have an additional revenue stream. There will still be junkies as there are winos today, but removing stigma enables treatment. (What actually happens to tax money is a whole ‘nother can of worms) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesRobot | 5,793 Events Team · Posted July 29, 2020 Share Posted July 29, 2020 1 hour ago, arch_8ngel said: Really? You're OK with young-and-dumb kids stopping into the convenience store on their way home from school and buying booze? I should be able to send my kid to the store to pick dad up some smokes and a sixer! 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gloves | 11,771 Administrator · Posted July 29, 2020 Share Posted July 29, 2020 1 minute ago, JamesRobot said: I should be able to send my kid to the store to pick dad up some smokes and a sixer! I was sent on cigarette runs for my babysitter regularly, and faced no issues aside from the occasional mugging. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docile tapeworm | 4,198 Posted July 29, 2020 Share Posted July 29, 2020 @arch_8ngel i think we all love the kids Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docile tapeworm | 4,198 Posted July 29, 2020 Share Posted July 29, 2020 19 minutes ago, JamesRobot said: I should be able to send my kid to the store to pick dad up some smokes and a sixer! the heavy sixer! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docile tapeworm | 4,198 Posted July 29, 2020 Share Posted July 29, 2020 the tall boy budwieser cans make pretty wicked steamrollers 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arch_8ngel | 1,597 Posted July 29, 2020 Share Posted July 29, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, Gloves said: Kids I know could go to the store and just pay a bit extra to get this stuff, and it was the hip thing to do in my area. Just want you to know that this is not common anywhere I have ever lived, though I'm not saying there aren't places where it is possible. Stores take the risk of being shut down or fined very seriously here to where "a bit extra to get this stuff" is nowhere near worth the financial risk. Edited July 29, 2020 by arch_8ngel 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docile tapeworm | 4,198 Posted July 29, 2020 Share Posted July 29, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, JamesRobot said: Didn't even see this. Love Steppenwolf and this is my favorite song. stepponwolf is great! born to be wild baby. and i can listen to caroet ride infinity times. bet you like the band spirit as well. Edited July 29, 2020 by docile tapeworm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BriGuy82 | 765 Posted July 29, 2020 Share Posted July 29, 2020 1 hour ago, arch_8ngel said: Well that is a cynical oversimplification of reality. That is one of the best lines I've ever heard. I'm stealing that, and using it against my wife the next time she wants to throw down. You are the man arch, you must be a lawyer. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesRobot | 5,793 Events Team · Posted July 29, 2020 Share Posted July 29, 2020 42 minutes ago, docile tapeworm said: stepponwolf is great! born to be wild baby. and i can listen to caroet ride infinity times. bet you like the band spirit as well. Spirit is alright. Can't really get into em. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BriGuy82 | 765 Posted July 29, 2020 Share Posted July 29, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, arch_8ngel said: Just want you to know that this is not common anywhere I have ever lived, though I'm not saying there aren't places where it is possible. Stores take the risk of being shut down or fined very seriously here to where "a bit extra to get this stuff" is nowhere near worth the financial risk. We used to just get older kids with fake I.D.s to buy us booze, usually a kid with a beard. The liquor stores didn't really care as long as it was an I.D.. I had a fake I.D. when I was 16 and got served. I must've looked like I was about 12. But this was all pre- 9/11 and also preinternet. Edited July 29, 2020 by BriGuy82 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
captmorgandrinker | 1,649 Administrator · Posted July 29, 2020 Share Posted July 29, 2020 1 hour ago, arch_8ngel said: Just want you to know that this is not common anywhere I have ever lived, though I'm not saying there aren't places where it is possible. Stores take the risk of being shut down or fined very seriously here to where "a bit extra to get this stuff" is nowhere near worth the financial risk. You're thinking waaaaaaaaaay too suburban. I guarantee there's podunk towns where they don't have the Liquor Control Board breathing down their neck that could give two shits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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